Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

[Albion]

Given that cessationists have nothing to offer but a contradiction, how can they expect rational people to accept there views? That's insanity, right?

Once again, what cessationists have is the fact that the gifts ceased. It is no theological mumbo jumbo, not a clever reinterpretation of Scripture. Nothing like that. If the gifts had not ceased to be a standard part of church life, every one of today's cessationists would be continuationists.

 

[Dave L]

The gifts are manifestations of the Holy Spirit, not manifestations of "the gifted".
If God told me to raise the dead, He could certainly do it. (through me)
If God told you to raise the dead, you would refuse. Right?

Jesus told us to raise the dead before the gifts were ever given.
Is that part of your "standard" theology course? (why not?)

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

This is what we are talking about. If the gifts were for today, you would see them just as they did in the first century.

 

[Dave L]

Translation: You have nothing.
You mean any standard Cessationist work, right? (biased brainwashing)

Any standard theological work.

 

[Dave L]

The workaround continues...
Prove it.

How many scrolls became books? Or E-books?

 

[Saint Steven]

This is what we are talking about. If the gifts were for today, you would see them just as they did in the first century.

I think you are turning a blind eye to the gifts that are in operation.
I have prayed for the sick and they were healed. I speak in tongues and have visions and messages from God that lead me to divine appointments. In my experience they are very real. I am an eye witness. And it's not just me. I don't deny that there are problems, but I don't conclude that the gifts have ceased.

 

[Saint Steven]

Any standard theological work.

Sorry, I set the bar higher than your "standard".

 

[Saint Steven]

How many scrolls became books? Or E-books?

Became?
Why do you refuse to understand that the Apostle said "this scroll" four times and meant EXACTLY that?

Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

 

[Albion]

I think you are turning a blind eye to the gifts that are in operation.
I have prayed for the sick and they were healed. I speak in tongues and have visions and messages from God that lead me to divine appointments. In my experience they are very real. I am an eye witness. And it's not just me. I don't deny that there are problems, but I don't conclude that the gifts have ceased.

Imitating the gifts certainly has not, but if only the pentecostal minority of Christians, and only since the 19th century or so, and only according to the assurances of the people claiming to be gifted is what it amounts to, then the gifts are not 'continuing.'

Some of them may in fact be in evidence to the extent that God can choose to gift anybody at any time, but that isn't the same as continuing the experience that the church once knew.

By the way, praying for someone to be healed is not one of the gifts. HEALING them is.

 

[Dave L]

Became?
Why do you refuse to understand that the Apostle said "this scroll" four times and meant EXACTLY that?

Revelation 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

Do the words change?

 

[Dave L]

Sorry, I set the bar higher than your "standard".

That's the problem. You think you have something superior to the rest of the church. Elite knowledge that no one else has. But the opposite is true. You've been hoodwinked and the rest of the church remains on track.

 

[Dave L]

I think you are turning a blind eye to the gifts that are in operation.
I have prayed for the sick and they were healed. I speak in tongues and have visions and messages from God that lead me to divine appointments. In my experience they are very real. I am an eye witness. And it's not just me. I don't deny that there are problems, but I don't conclude that the gifts have ceased.

The prayer of faith heals the sick. But the gifts of healing do not exist today or they would be headline news.

 

[JAL]

God gave the gifts to serve as a visual confirmation. But nobody even sees the gifts today. We "hear" about them in sporadic "miracles" nobody can confirm. It's always hearsay. You need ti set things straight and raise some dead people and restore some amputated limbs before claiming the gifts.

More deflection and evasion. The ambient issue here is the self-contradictory nature of Sola Scriptura. Since you and all (evangelical) cessationists persist in this contradiction, you've shown yourselves, and your position, completely irrational on epistemology. I'll likely quit responding as I don't see much point in debating with someone dedicated to irrationality.

 

[Dave L]

More deflection and evasion. The ambient issue here is the self-contradictory nature of Sola Scriptura. Since you and all (evangelical) cessationists persist in this contradiction, you've shown yourselves, and your position, completely irrational on epistemology. I'll likely quit responding as I don't see much point in debating with someone dedicated to irrationality.

Sign gifts without visual proof are bogus.

 

[JAL]

Once again, what cessationists have is the fact that the gifts ceased. It is no theological mumbo jumbo, not a clever reinterpretation of Scripture. Nothing like that. If the gifts had not ceased to be a standard part of church life, every one of today's cessationists would be continuationists.

Um..how does your blatantly flawed deduction here address the other issue, namely the espistemologically self-contradictory nature of Sola Scriptura?

 

[JAL]

Sign gifts without visual proof are bogus.

More evasion. Ignored.

 

[Dave L]

More evasion. Ignored.

Where's the beef?

 

[Albion]

Um..how does your blatantly flawed deduction here address the other issue, namely the espistemologically self-contradictory nature of Sola Scriptura?

Sola Scriptura is not self-contradictory.

 

[JAL]

Sola Scriptura is not self-contradictory.

That's not a rebuttal of the logical argument. Refute the specific charge of contradiction, please.

Oh wait - that would involve some ACTUAL RATIONALITY wouldn't it? Nevermind.

 

[Albion]

That's not a rebuttal of the logical argument.

What do you imagine to be the "logical argument?" -- that Sola Scriptura is supposedly "self-contradictory?" You might as well argue that a duck is self-contradictory. Sola Scriptura is nothing more than an appeal for basing dogma on the word of God, just as the early church and the church fathers did. There's nothing self-contradictory in that.

 

[JAL]

What do you imagine to be the "logical argument?" -- that Sola Scriptura is supposedly "self-contradictory?" You might as well argue that a duck is self-contradictory. Sola Scriptura is nothing more than an appeal for basing dogma on the word of God, just as the early church and the church fathers did. There's nothing self-contradictory in that.

I don't expect you to read this whole thread but a few posts back would help.
You can start with post 401. Especially please refute the analogy given in post #273 about a boy cleaning his room 5 days a week (which I used to help establish the absolute authority of conscience contrary to Bible-as-my-authority). You should also address post #409 as well.

The point is, so far you haven't addressed ANYTHING. Par for the course. And that's not even to mention other topics on this thread where I challenged you logically or scripturally and you ignored those challanges. This thread is a joke.