Is Continuationism or Cessationism a hard doctrine to prove?

[W2L]

By love, not miracles, will people know we are disciples of the Lord.

 

[Albion]

I don't expect you to read this whole thread but a few posts back would help.
You can start with post 401. Especially please refute the analogy given in post #273 about a boy cleaning his room 5 days a week (which I used to help establish the absolute authority of conscience contrary to Bible-as-my-authority). You should also address post #409 as well.

Very well, I took you up on that. Here is post 401 that you said I should start with (addressed to someone else)--

Repeating yourself is not a rebuttal of the logic. My same words apply to this last comment. Here again is what I said (you might want to actually read it this time around)

You're accusing YOURSELF !!! You had to rely on some knowledge-tool, perceived reliable/authoritative, to accept Scripture. By your own words, this makes you a devil-follower!

I'm sorry you bought into the foolish lie called Sola Scriptura, but calling yourself (and everyone else) a devil-follower doesn't mitigate the problem.

Did you notice that there is no argument there from you about Sola Scriptura one way or the other, no Bible verses, and no useful information of any sort? And if you think (from post 273 and elsewhere) that conscience defines all doctrine, you perhaps should start your own church, since there are no others holding that POV.

 

[JAL]

That was an empty post. Is this another example of evasion? Or is it a typo?

 

[JAL]

Very well, I took you up on that. Here is post 401 that you said I should start with (addressed to someone else)--

Did you notice that there is no argument there from you about Sola Scriptura one way or the other, no Bible verses, and no useful information of any sort? And if you think (from post 273 and elsewhere) that conscience defines all doctrine, you perhaps should start your own church, since there are no others holding that POV.

You're saying that in order for me to question Sola Scriptura, I must cite Bible verses? So I must first assume that Sola Scriptura is true, in order to QUESTION Sola Scriptura? You do realize that's insanity, right?

Actually I've cited PLENTY of verses, 400 posts deep into this thread, not because I believe in Sola Scriptura, but because YOU people do, to expose the contradictions - the expose the fact that the Bible teaches against the idea of Sola Scriptura. And I've got more to say about that, perhaps tomorrow or later tonight.

Did you notice that there is no argument there from you about Sola Scriptura one way or the other

Your reading skills are seriously in question. The argument in 273 is that a father or a Judge (e.g. God) who dishonors the authority of conscience is EVIL.

Obviously, you didn't understand a very simple argument. If you lack the ability, fine, move on. Don't sit here and insinuate that no argument was made.

Maybe you don't understand the IMPLICATIONS of the argument. Fine. Let me spell it out for you.
Sola-Scriptura: The the Bible is the only FINAL authority.
Post 273: The human conscience is a final authority (again, see post 273 as to WHY).
Conclusion: The Bible isn't the only final authority.
Corollary: Indeed the bible doesn't appear to be a final authority at all. Conscience appears to be the only final authority (and I'm not questioning the INSPIRATOIN of Scripture).

THAT'S the argument. I think you're playing the same evasive games that most everyone else does around here.

 

[JAL]

Albion, since you apparently didn't comprehend post 401 either, I'll spell that out for you too.

Sola Scriptura: The bible is the only final authority.
Conversion: you came to accept the Bible as inspired and Jesus as God. Why? On what authority? On what basis?

WHATEVER your basis, it wasn't Scripture. You can't say, 'Jesus must be Lord because the Bible says He is.' That's not a legitimate basis. You relied on a basis other than Scripture for the biggest decision of your life. What was it? Was it:
(1) Blind faith? Fine than Sola Scriptura isn't true. You have two authorities that your rely on to make decisions:
(A) Blind faith
(B) Scripture

(2) Reason? Fine than Sola Scriptura isn't true. You have two authorities that your rely on to make decisions:
(A) Reason
(B) Scripture

And you can list more possibilities 3, 4, 5 and so on. In all cases, it means that Scripture is not the only FINAL authority in your life. 'Sola' Scriptura isn't Sola at all. THAT'S the charge of contradiction.

 

[Saint Steven]

That's the problem. You think you have something superior to the rest of the church. Elite knowledge that no one else has. But the opposite is true. You've been hoodwinked and the rest of the church remains on track.

Nicely played.

But I disagree.
I'm no better than anyone else. I just happen to believe that God is still in the miracle working business. Not that he closed up shop and went away.

 

[Saint Steven]

The prayer of faith heals the sick. But the gifts of healing do not exist today or they would be headline news.

Really splitting hairs now.
Explain what you mean by the "prayer of faith".
I know what it means, but wonder what you think.

 

[JAL]

Albion, and it's not just that you would have at least two authorities (if you accept Sola Scriptura), it's also that the first authority (the basis on which you accepted Jesus and the Bible) is a HIGHER AUTHORITY than Scripture because it DICTATED whether or not you accept Scripture as inspired.

 

[W2L]

I wonder which church has the apostles? Where can i find these men?

 

[Saint Steven]

But the gifts of healing do not exist today or they would be headline news.

The gifts do exist today, but few believe it. News is worthless in that environment.

I testified that I saw someone healed when I prayed with them. You showed zero interest. Do you really think that would have made the news?

 

[Dave L]

The gifts do exist today, but few believe it. News is worthless in that environment.

I testified that I saw someone healed when I prayed with them. You showed zero interest. Do you really think that would have made the news?

I said the prayer of faith heals the sick. This is not a healing gift as demonstrated by the Apostles or their appointees in Acts.

 

[Dave L]

Really splitting hairs now.
Explain what you mean by the "prayer of faith".
I know what it means, but wonder what you think.

The prayer of faith is not a signs and wonders gift given only to the Apostles and to those whom they enlisted.

 

[Dave L]

Nicely played.

But I disagree.
I'm no better than anyone else. I just happen to believe that God is still in the miracle working business. Not that he closed up shop and went away.

God works miracles but not according to the Pentecostal agenda.

 

[Saint Steven]

I said the prayer of faith heals the sick. This is not a healing gift as demonstrated by the Apostles or their appointees in Acts.

What is the difference ultimately?
In one case God heals the sick, in the other case God heals the sick.
Should we conclude that the gift of healing is no longer in operation?

 

[Saint Steven]

The prayer of faith is not a signs and wonders gift given only to the Apostles and to those whom they enlisted.

If that is what it is "not", then what is it?
You are claiming that healing is a signs gift?
That would have been a bummer to have been in the prayer line seeking healing the day God turned it off.

 

[Dave L]

What is the difference ultimately?
In one case God heals the sick, in the other case God heals the sick.
Should we conclude that the gift of healing is no longer in operation?

The Apostles and some of their appointees had the gifts of healing. They raised the dead on command. Healed twisted limbs on command.

 

[Dave L]

If that is what it is "not", then what is it?
You are claiming that healing is a signs gift?
That would have been a bummer to have been in the prayer line seeking healing the day God turned it off.

You do not see the signs and wonders of an Apostle today because there are no Apostles. You do not see the genuine gifts today, including tongues, because they only came through an apostle's hands.

 

[Saint Steven]

God works miracles but not according to the Pentecostal agenda.

So, miracles are random happenings now?
Since the "miracle" gifts have ceased, God has to do it himself, without our assistance?
If someone tells you they are sick, do you inform that that it isn't your problem, since the "sign" gifts, like healing, are no longer in operation?

Oh, wait... you said the prayer of faith heals the sick.
We just can't say it is a gift. Hmm... seems like a gift to me.
Especially to the one who is sick.

 

[Saint Steven]

The Apostles and some of their appointees had the gifts of healing. They raised the dead on command. Healed twisted limbs on command.

Was that "even greater things", or are we not there yet?
(it seems we have a lot of catching up to do - will you stand in the way?)

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

[Dave L]

Was that "even greater things", or are we not there yet?
(it seems we have a lot of catching up to do - will you stand in the way?)

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

How do we do the greater works of Jesus? We now reign with him in heaven. And as his body, we do whatever he does including ruling the universe.