Conservative Activist Attacked at Berkeley

redleghunter

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So, why is Charles Manson in prison? Incitement is completely a crime.
Murder.
In 1971, he was convicted of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder for the deaths of seven people, all of which members of the group carried out at his instruction. Manson was also convicted of first-degree murder for two other deaths.

Penalty: Death (commuted to life with the possi...



Parent(s): Colonel W. H. Scott Sr. (father); Kath...



Partner(s): Members of the Manson Family, inc...



Criminal charge: Murder, conspiracy

Now what are you comparing murder and conspiracy to murder to again?

Edit: also Manson is now worm food as of Nov 2017.
 
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If you advocate free speech, you have chosen strange politics. Political conservativism in the US has never really supported free speech. Conservatives used to be known for wanting to jail flag burners, for instance. And of course they advocate gagging doctors and healthcare workers, among other things.

I thought there are laws in place to protect the US flag, even when a flag touches the ground? Free speech is free within the laws, whether they are federal, state, local, and private...yes?
 
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FireDragon76

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I thought there are laws in place to protect the US flag, even when a flag touches the ground? Free speech is free within the laws, whether they are federal, state, local, and private...yes?

No, those are customs only. There is no legal penalty attached to dragging a flag on the ground.
 
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I don't have any patience for violence from the left - and I would've loved it if somebody had fought back against the assailant in this video and put him in the hospital.

But don't pretend as if the presidential bully pulpit has no power or influence. He doesn't have to physically pull the trigger in order to incite violence. I don't put all (or even a majority) of the blame for right-wing wacko violence on Trump, but he certainly does seem happy to exploit the rage that's out there and doesn't seem to be interested in moderating his language that encourages it.
What has POTUS said that incites violence? can you provide quotes in context?
 
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No, those are customs only. There is no legal penalty attached to dragging a flag on the ground.

I think usually the language used is in terms of "should" that is from the position of showing respect, being of the opinion, people should not be able to openly display total disrespect for the country they live in without some type of consequence, a fine or something comparable to say a speeding ticket for driving five miles over the limit, or jay walking or littering. There are limitations to free speech, even on the internet depending on where you exercise speech.
 
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FireDragon76

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I think usually the language used is in terms of "should" that is from the position of showing respect, being of the opinion, people should not be able to openly display total disrespect for the country they live in without some type of consequence, a fine or something comparable to say a speeding ticket for driving five miles over the limit, or jay walking or littering. There are limitations to free speech, even on the internet depending on where you exercise speech.

In the United States, freedom of speech is a sacred right protected by our Constitution, no matter how unpopular the speech.
 
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I'm not a conservative...and your argument here is basically the same as saying Democrats support slavery.

Past political issues don't determine current ones.
democrats were the slave owners in the South. hopefully they have changed their stance on the issue.
 
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Ana the Ist

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democrats were the slave owners in the South. hopefully they have changed their stance on the issue.

I think it's fair to assume they have. I haven't seen any Democrats come out against the Emancipation Proclamation....

...if they do though, I'm sure I'll hear about it.
 
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I think it's fair to assume they have. I haven't seen any Democrats come out against the Emancipation Proclamation....

...if they do though, I'm sure I'll hear about it.
Ok keep us informed...
One republican idea that both sides of the isle agreed on eventually.
 
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In the United States, freedom of speech is a sacred right protected by our Constitution, no matter how unpopular the speech.

Tell that to the man assaulted on Berkeley campus. Btw, have they found the man who did the assaulting?
 
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iluvatar5150

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And he has the right to,,,right?

Sure, he has the right to do a lot of things. He has the right to take a dump in the middle of the oval office. His “rights” are a weak and pathetic standard to which to hold the POTUS.
 
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Shemjaza

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Murder.
In 1971, he was convicted of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder for the deaths of seven people, all of which members of the group carried out at his instruction. Manson was also convicted of first-degree murder for two other deaths.

Penalty: Death (commuted to life with the possi...



Parent(s): Colonel W. H. Scott Sr. (father); Kath...



Partner(s): Members of the Manson Family, inc...



Criminal charge: Murder, conspiracy

Now what are you comparing murder and conspiracy to murder to again?

Edit: also Manson is now worm food as of Nov 2017.
That's my point he was convicted of murder... without having to be present or kill anyone. He's acult or terrorist leader, he doesn't have to get his hands dirty to be guilty.

My point is not that all neo-nazi and related leaders share the same level of culpability as Charles Manson, my point is that promoting and/or minimising genocide is not merely a speech issue, it is in fact a real danger.
 
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Ophiolite

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I think usually the language used is in terms of "should" that is from the position of showing respect, being of the opinion, people should not be able to openly display total disrespect for the country they live in without some type of consequence, a fine or something comparable to say a speeding ticket for driving five miles over the limit, or jay walking or littering. There are limitations to free speech, even on the internet depending on where you exercise speech.
Please demonstrate, in detail, in what way burning a flag represents a total disrespect for the country. In particular establish (beyond reasonable doubt) that the burning of the flag, as a symbolic protest designed to bring attention to actions that are themselves a stain on the character of the country, still represents total disrespect. Alternatively concede that your remarks are biased and ill-informed. As an Apologetic Warrior apologies should come easily to you.
 
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Please demonstrate, in detail, in what way burning a flag represents a total disrespect for the country. In particular establish (beyond reasonable doubt) that the burning of the flag, as a symbolic protest designed to bring attention to actions that are themselves a stain on the character of the country, still represents total disrespect. Alternatively concede that your remarks are biased and ill-informed. As an Apologetic Warrior apologies should come easily to you.

The flag represents the country which so many have died to defend and protect the rights of, even the right to burn the flag. :(
 
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Ophiolite

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The flag represents the country which so many have died to defend and protect the rights of, even the right to burn the flag. :(
I apologise. I was obviously not clear. Can you point me to which part of my request you did not understand and I shall seek to rephrase it.
 
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I apologise. I was obviously not clear. Can you point me to which part of my request you did not understand and I shall seek to rephrase it.

I explained in what way, but it appears you did not understand it, otherwise you would not have asked the question, if we could call it that, in the first instance. Maybe someone who has served in the US Military can explain this better to you, I have not. I'd also appreciate if you could refrain from using my username to goad. Thanks.
 
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Ophiolite

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I explained in what way, but it appears you did not understand it, otherwise you would not have asked the question, if we could call it that, in the first instance. Maybe someone who has served in the US Military can explain this better to you, I have not. I'd also appreciate if you could refrain from using my username to goad. Thanks.
I cited an instance where the reputation of the USA is brought into disrepute by actions of individuals, organisations, or elements of the government. I hope you would agree that, on occassions, such instances arise.

In such a case some individuals, feeling they have exhausted other options at their disposal and having a deep respect for the USA, its Constitution and reputation, may feel constrained to carry out a symbolic act of desecration. This act would be intended to make felt more strongly their concern over the prejudicial actions. In such an instance their burning of the flag is the very opposite of a total disprespect for the country. It is a heartfelt plea to pay heed to injustices being conducted, allegedly, on behalf of the country. It is those injustices that represent the disrespect for those who have died or made other sacrifices on behalf of the country and its people, not the burning of the flag.

I'm disappointed if you cannot see this and agree to it in principle. I hope your difficulty lay in my condensed message in the orginal post that was, apparently, not clear. I was trying to avoid being long-winded, but that obviously backfired. Please ask for any clarification necessary.

I'm sorry you felt my use of your name was an attempt to goad. It was an attempt to lighten the mood. Perhaps I should have followed it with a smiley to emphasise that. (I have been addressed on other forums as Oaf-iolite and found it amusing rather than offensive.) However, I take note of your sensitivity on the matter and shall avoid such usage in any future exchanges with you.
 
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If you advocate free speech, you have chosen strange politics. Political conservativism in the US has never really supported free speech. Conservatives used to be known for wanting to jail flag burners, for instance. And of course they advocate gagging doctors and healthcare workers, among other things.
I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that it is "free speech" to punch someone in the face or that conservatives should have punched flag burners in the face?
 
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