Thanks for the tag. I'm afraid I am not free to enter into actual debate and disagreement - my SF has suggested this is for me more risk of pride and lack of love than of any benefit to myself. That's one reason I usually avoid GT.
I am happy to share some info though that I think seems pertinent.
In my understanding - there simply is no question anymore of "faith vs works". Everything was given to the Apostles and understood in the early Church. They had both the letter to the Ephesians and the teaching of St. James and saw no contradiction.
Part of the problem is the way words are used. Most Protestants see "salvation" as a moment-in-time "done deal" ... we believe in that moment too, and call it "conversion". Conversion absolutely places one in Christ and forgives sins, and from the time of the early Church it was immediate baptism.
But most of what we read in the epistles is written to people who are living their lives in the faith, which is what we all must persevere and do.
An excerpt from St. Mark of Ephesus' homily explains it well, I think. This is from a longer homily.
St. Mark teaches:
Remission is given in three forms and at different times: (1) during Baptism; (2) after Baptism, through ... sorrow and making up (for sins) by good works in the present life; and (3) after death, ... [
this is not the topic of this post but please remember one sin "will not be forgiven either in this life nor in the age to come" ... Scripture does mention forgiveness after death - italics mine]
Thus,
the first remission of sins is not at all bound up with labor; it is common to all and equal in honor, like the pouring out of light and the beholding of the sun and the changes of the seasons of the year,
for this grace alone and of us is asked nothing else but faith. But the second remission is painful, as for one who “every night washes his bed, and with tears waters his couch” (Ps. 6:5), for whom even the traces of the blows of sin are painful, who goes weeping and with contrite face and emulates the conversion of the Ninevites and the humility of Manasses, upon which there was mercy. The third remission is also painful, for it is bound up with repentance and a conscience that is contrite and suffers from insufficiency of good; ... Moreover,
in the first and last remission of sins the grace of God has the larger part, with the cooperation of prayer, and very little is brought in by us. The middle remission, on the other hand, has little from grace, while the greater part is owing to our labor. The first remission of sins ... is a remission of all sins in an equal degree, ...
From First Homily of St. Mark of Ephesus On Prayer for the Dead and Against the Roman Catholic Purgatory
(Also I removed parts that were mostly addressing why we disagree with Purgatorial punishment, as it might have just further confused the issue.
Quite simply - we are converted and all our sins are forgiven. But it is then our duty to cooperate with the grace of God and become like Christ, if we expect to enjoy God's presence in eternity - and "works" ... i.e. how we live our lives in imitation of Christ ... is how we do this.
Does anyone really believe that a person could profess belief, then go on living like the devil himself, and die and enjoy bliss in the presence of God? I don't think many would really say that is possible.
Mostly it's just legal wrangling over words and points, and I'm not interested. But how we live matters to who we become, and who we become (like Christ or like a demon) influences how we will spend eternity.
God be with you all.
None of those contradict what the Church has taught since the beginning. Please read the link i gave you and provide a counter argument to the Orthodox view.
Salvation Is Indeed By Grace
Also i bet you guys would give great insight. Cant let this turn into a RC/Prot fight:
@ArmyMatt @~Anastasia~
Oh yea, definitely agreed.