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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
The quiet despair of Protestants
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Albion
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Well, yours is the largest denomination, especially if we dont count the millions of nominal members. But that's all there is to that. It is still just one denomination among 30,000 (or whatever figure is correct) different denominations, no different than any other one of them in that respect.
If The Episcopal Church, for example, is expected by you to be in unity with, say the Assemblies of God (for some unknown reason), then so ought the Roman Catholic Church.
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Albion
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The facts usually do speak for themselves.
Well, lets just compare and see if the differences between these rivals are uncannily small after all. Papal Supremacy and Infallibility. Would this not be a biggie? The Assumption of Mary. Purgatory. Filioque (which describes the nature of God!. Indulgences. Married clergy. Four marriages permitted (EO). And that is not a complete listing. None of these seem like some of the trivialities that separate many of the Protestant churches.
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chilehed
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Somehow I missed notificationof your reply.
You seem reluctant to discuss the obvious fact that nothing you've quoted means anything remotely like "since God has spoken infallibly in the Scriptures that therefore the Roman church teaches infallibly concerning faith and morals". I take it that you realize you were wrong about that.
What of it? It obviously doesn't say anything remotely like "since God has spoken infallibly in the Scriptures that therefore the Roman church teaches infallibly concerning faith and morals".
Yes.
No, because Jesus promised to prevent His Church from binding the faithful to a false teaching. That's how the Church has the authority to, and does, teach infallibly: because Jesus said so!
Latae sententiae excommunication has never been a punishment for material heresy.
You seem reluctant to discuss the obvious fact that nothing you've quoted means anything remotely like "since God has spoken infallibly in the Scriptures that therefore the Roman church teaches infallibly concerning faith and morals". I take it that you realize you were wrong about that.
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fhansen
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Yes, the biggee is authority, but not a matter of heresy but of schism. The Assumption of Mary in the west and the Dormition of Mary in the east are directly related and both celebrated on August 15th and are both non-Scriptural. A belief in a final purifying state also crosses these geographical lines while most, but not all, Protestants reject this teaching. The filioque should be a non-issue that became a focal point of divisions between east and west, chiefly over authority. SS adherents should have no problem with the western position incidentally, while either profession works ok. The east, as with some other more peripheral beliefs, has differed with each other or wavered on indulgences over the centuries. Celibate bishops and priests are the rule in most of the west while celibate bishops only are the rule in the east. And this a matter of practice only, having nothing to do with doctrine, dogma, or articles of faith. IOW it is changeable and whenever eastern churches have entered communion with Rome I believe they were never required to change their practice in this area.
And all of these issues debated here and between east and west could be resolved if we had a central visible authority BTW. Not that people wouldn't continue to dissent, and be schismatic, and start new churches. But such an authority would certainly resolve the divisions created by the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.
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Albion
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Part of it is.
But the beliefs are different.
Again, the beliefs in question are quite different in a number of ways.
Well, most people in either West or East regret the consequences of it, but they generally admit to the seriousness of the disagreement.
Well, since having such a religious dictator is a major point of disagreement, it is not that easy. Yes, if everyone were forced to submit to the Pope, there would be only one authorized doctrine, but that is why we have separate churches--because a lot of people cannot agree to that in good conscience.
In summary, the Catholic churches are just as divided as the Protestant ones, perhaps moreso when we consider the very high-level nature of the disagreements between Roman Christian West and Orthodox Christian East.
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fhansen
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Of course, and many atheists can't agree that God exists in good conscience. And many JW's and Muslims can't agree that Jesus is God in good conscience. These aren't wittingly evil people, just misinformed or misguided or people who've suffered abuse, etc.Well, since having such a religious dictator is a major point of disagreement, it is not that easy. Yes, if everyone were forced to submit to the Pope, there would be only one authorized doctrine, but that is why we have separate churches--because a lot of people cannot agree to that in good conscience.
Again, mainly hair splitting. The agreements far outweigh any differences, especially when the EO amd RCC are contrasted against Protestant theology. There are many other striking similarities that can be mentioned: the priesthood itself, the liturgies, etc.
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