When is it a sin?

[timothyu]

If they meet the biblical standard, they are saved, if not, they aren't.

So if they have rejected the will of man in favour of the will of God (loving neighbour as self) they are saved.

 

[aiki]

So if they have rejected the will of man in favour of the will of God (loving neighbour as self) they are saved.

Um...this isn't the conclusion to which I think my comments should bring you. The will of God before everything else isn't the Golden Rule but to love God with all that one is. (Matthew 22:36-38) When one loves God this way, one naturally exhibits those things Scripture says mark a genuine believer: a love of the brethren, a desire for holiness, a hunger for the word of God, the development of the Fruit of the Spirit, mortification of the flesh, etc.

 

[timothyu]

So if we love God first as the commandment states does that not mean we put His will before ours, the reversal of what man has been doing since the Garden?? Is not His will commandment number two that we love neighbour as self??

 

[Tayla]

So when is it a sin? Why do we decide that some sins are more important than others and when does a sin become important?

Mortal sins separate us from God and are, therefore, more significant than other sins.

 

[aiki]

So if we love God first as the commandment states does that not mean we put His will before ours, the reversal of what man has been doing since the Garden?? Is not His will commandment number two that we love neighbour as self??

Yes, the second commandment is an integral part of what distinguishes a believer from a non-believer, but it is not the only thing Scripture points to that does so. A genuine believer also hungers for God's word, forsakes sin, lives in constant surrender to Christ, desires fellowship with God, is grateful, and joyful, and patient, etc.

 

[timothyu]

Mortal sins separate us from God and are, therefore, more significant than other sins.

I'm curious. Is that what God meant when He said everything from front to back of Bible was our will vs His will? When Jesus said to repent of the will of man and put God's will first, did He say there were big and small changes of will or was it a case of all or nothing??

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[timothyu]

Yes, the second commandment is an integral part of what distinguishes a believer from a non-believer, but it is not the only thing Scripture points to that does so. A genuine believer also hungers for God's word, forsakes sin, lives in constant surrender to Christ, desires fellowship with God, is grateful, and joyful, and patient, etc.

It seems to me Jesus summed that all up in His two commandments. Are we to turn from simple straightforward scripture in order to immerse ourselves in complicated theology? For who's benefit?

 

[Just_a_Christian]

Since we all have sin, then we should treat others the same if they
are married or walking with an escort service.


Romans 12:10
Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.

Ephesians 5:21
Submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

1 Peter 3:8
Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Romans 14:1
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.

Matthew 22:36-39
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 7:1-2
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.



Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

I'm not exactly sure I know what you're attempting to say but i'm fairly sure I do. You take umbrage that I said we should speak up or rally against homosexuality. Correct me if I'm wrong... if I'm correct, here is where you are missing the mark, homosexuality is an abomination to God. He destroyed, utterly, Sodom and Gomorrah for such sin(s). One may stand against sin and still love the sinner.
In one of your later post you indicated that the worst sin is the one you don't accept God's forgiveness. Partially correct, you must first repent of the sin and plead for His forgiveness before you can accept it.
Later you make the claim the we are not allowed to judge someone. Very common claim but incorrect also. The Word says all scripture is good for reproof and correction. In order to know that someone is doing wrong, we must judge them. We are to use righteous judgement. When you say "judge not", it's actually judge not when you are committing the same sin. While yes sin is sin as in severity, but there are different sins like murder is different than homosexuality.

 

[aiki]

It seems to me Jesus summed that all up in His two commandments. Are we to turn from simple straightforward scripture in order to immerse ourselves in complicated theology? For who's benefit?

Summed up? Yes. But what is summed up is important, too. We love our neighbor in truth, with an eternal, Christ-centered view, with righteousness and holiness, and so on. If we neglect to do so, our "love" quickly becomes corrupt, sentimental, selfish and so not properly in obedience to the second commandment, really, at all.

 

[timothyu]

If we neglect to do so, our "love" quickly becomes corrupt, sentimental, selfish and so not in obedience to the second commandment, really, at all.

Exactly. We revert back to the self serving will of man. It's one or the other, God's will or ours.. Quite simple no?

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[JacksBratt]

Mortal sins separate us from God and are, therefore, more significant than other sins.

All sins are "mortal" sins. All sin "separate" us from God.

However:

The only sin that cannot be forgiven is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Even still.. Christ states that they are still only "in danger" of eternal damnation.

Mark 3:28-30 King James Version (KJV)
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

 

[aiki]

Exactly. We revert back to the self serving will of man. It's one or the other, God's will or ours.. Quite simple no?

Yes, this choice between our will and God's is straightforward and clear. But God's will is not simple. Sometimes its utterly mystifying.

 

[paul becke]

Yes, but failed to back it with scripture.

What Does the Bible Say About Wisdom?

Th

Yes, but failed to back it with scripture.

There is no need to. It speaks for itself. The Holy Spirit would stand aghast at the thought that you needed a scriptural endorsement to realise that.

What Does the Bible Say About Wisdom?

[/QUOTE]That fear of the Lord is the first stage of wisdom.[/QUOTE]

Incidentally, the Old Testament would have been Jesus' Bible, but I don't recall Jesus ever specifying the author of his scriptural quotes, or chapter and verse or any equivalent markers. 'It is written...' or just 'scripture?', I recall. He expected his audience to recognise the words and teachings.

 

[paul becke]

All sins are "mortal" sins. All sin "separate" us from God.

However:

The only sin that cannot be forgiven is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Even still.. Christ states that they are still only "in danger" of eternal damnation.

Mark 3:28-30 King James Version (KJV)
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

'Christ states that they are still only "in danger" of eternal damnation.'

I take it you are not referring here to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, contradicting your previous sentence ? I don't recall any such demurral ; only that it was inforgivable because it was an eternal sin.

 

[paul becke]

Well, the two youngest of my three brothers were alcoholics. They are both entirely free of their addiction to drink now and have been for years. Neither brother thinks of himself as an endlessly-recovering alcoholic, but as the spiritually-regenerate person Paul describes in Romans 6 who is "dead unto sin but alive unto God through Jesus Christ." My brothers don't define themselves in terms of their sin, but in the terms the Bible uses to define all born-again Christians: new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), saint (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2), joint-heir with Christ (Romans 8:17), redeemed, sanctified, and justified believer (1 Corinthians 1:30), etc. They look at themselves as Paul looked at the stumbling, contentious, carnal Corinthian believers:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Paul here reminded the Corinthian Christians that they were not the sum of their sin, but were washed clean of their sin and made completely new in Christ. Paul did not think the Corinthian believers should have continued to frame their view of themselves in terms of their sin but rather in accord with their new spiritual identity in their Saviour.



Goodness. You couldn't be more wrong.



I'm afraid the teaching of Scripture is quite clear that a person's salvation is "black or white." You are either in the kingdom of God, in His family, or you aren't. There is no middle ground to occupy.



I disagree. All throughout the New Testament we are given criteria by which to judge if we (or others) are within the faith or not (Matthew 7:17-20; Romans 6:22; Galatians 5:22-23; 1 John 3:14; Jeremiah 15:16; Romans 8:16, 1 Corinthians 16:22; Galatians 1:8-9, etc). I am well within biblical boundaries, then, to assess a person's claim to salvation on the basis of the criteria given in Scripture. If they meet the biblical standard, they are saved, if not, they aren't.

Wrong. What about Jesus words about 'cleansing, as if by fire' ?

 

[timothyu]

But God's will is not simple. Sometimes its utterly mystifying.

He summed it all up in two commandments. Put His will before the will of man, that will being love all neighbours as self. Seems simple enough. Why do people confuse the theology (religious philosophy aka opinion) of man with the word of God? They serve two different masters.

 

[aiki]

Wrong. What about Jesus words about 'cleansing, as if by fire' ?

Wrong? About what, exactly? And what about Paul's remark about a man being saved "so as by fire"?

 

[SkyWriting]

There is no need to. It speaks for itself. The Holy Spirit would stand aghast at the thought that you needed a scriptural endorsement to realise that.

Incidentally, the Old Testament would have been Jesus' Bible, but I don't recall Jesus ever specifying the author of his scriptural quotes, or chapter and verse or any equivalent markers. 'It is written...' or just 'scripture?', I recall. He expected his audience to recognise the words and teachings.

That's right. Jesus is believed to have drawn from even more scripture than we have today, and the chapters and titles were added relatively recently.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is no need to. It speaks for itself. The Holy Spirit would stand aghast at the thought that you needed a scriptural endorsement to realise that.

So you not yet studied wisdom then?

1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Numbers 23:19
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

2 Peter 1:3-4
His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong;

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

1 Corinthians 2:6
Among the mature, however, we speak a message of wisdom--but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.

 

[aiki]

He summed it all up in two commandments. Put His will before the will of man, that will being love all neighbours as self. Seems simple enough. Why do people confuse the theology (religious philosophy aka opinion) of man with the word of God? They serve two different masters.

Is it simple, though? I've walked with God for many decades, and I don't see that it is always so. What does it mean to love God with all of one's being, exactly? What does that look like? The monastic life of the abbey or of Mother Theresa in the backstreets of Calcutta? The life of John the Baptist, eating bugs in the wilderness? The life of Paul, laboring and suffering for the Lord and finally being beheaded? Is loving God just an emotional thing, a strong feeling of affection we express in frequent teary moments of worship? What? How do you love God when He allows you to suffer intense pain and tragedy? How do you love a Being who is intangible and unfathomable?

What does it mean to love your neighbor as yourself? If you love yourself, how do you love your neighbor? Don't these loves compete with each other? If I love myself I won't want to love another person. Should I give everything I possess to my neighbor? Should I acquiesce to all of my neighbor's requests and/or demands? Do I become the standard for what it means to love my neighbor? These are the sorts of questions I get from the new believers that I disciple. Obeying the first two commandments, then, isn't always a cut-and-dried, straightforward proposition.

Also, I understand theology to be the study of the nature of God and associated doctrines and beliefs, not the study of religious philosophy. This study of God is anchored thoroughly to Scripture and so is not a replacement for Scripture or antithetical to it.