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Christs second coming

LittleLambofJesus

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See my thread on the parousia in Luke 21:

Is the "parousia" showing in Luke 21?

Luke 21:27
“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Revelation 14:14
Then I looked, and behold! a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man,
having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle.


.
 
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shilohsfoal

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I don't think any Arab has been ask to give up their property.

No,they are not being asked.
For the last 70 years they have been forced out if not killed.
Since 1967 many of the occupants in the west bank both christian and muslim are being forced out of fleeing israels occupation.Do you read the news?

https://www-theatlantic-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/560294/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/05/the-meaning-of-nakba-israel-palestine-1948-gaza/560294/

There are plenty of articles on the subject.

Bethlehem's declining Christian population casts shadow over Christmas

This is recent.
Land Grab: Israeli settlements in the West Bank – Mondoweiss
 
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thesunisout

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I know where the "chief cornerstone" is now located.

The chief cornerstone is Christ:

Ephesians 2:19-22

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit
 
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claninja

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The high priest Caiaphas saw Jesus coming on the clouds of Heaven FROM NOW ON. He is one of those that pierced him.

Matthew 24:64-65 Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, FROM NOW ON YOU will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy. What is your judgment?” They answered, “He deserves death.”

"behold 3708 horáō" is the greek word for see. This greek word means properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception). It's aorist imperative active, thus it is a command.

The "is coming with the clouds" is present tense. Therefore, It is a command to see/spiritually perceive that Jesus is presently coming on the clouds.

Revelation 1:7 Behold (command), He is coming (present tense) with the clouds,

So what does it mean that Jesus is coming on the clouds?
Daniel 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

It means that he is at the right hand of the Father with all dominion and glory and an everlasting kingdom.
Daniel 7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

So it is not the "son of man coming on the clouds" that is just future, but an ever present reality from the cross onward, for that occurred at Jesus' death resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father. And even Caiaphas "saw" that "from now on" at the point of Jesus' crucifixion. All believers today should behold that Jesus is coming on the clouds because he is in heaven at the right hand of the father with all authority and power.

However, what was future to the disciples and people of Israel was the 1.) the appearing of the sign IN HEAVEN and 2.) the mourning of all the tribes of the land when they saw/spiritually understood Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven after Jerusalem's destruction.
matthew 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Revelation 1:7 is specifically about the Israel because:
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the landwill wailb on account of him. Even so. Amen.

1.) Revelation 1:7 is also found in the olivet discourse, which is said to take place immediately after the tribulation of Jerusalem.
matthew 24:29-30 IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

2.) revelation 1:7 and Matthew 24:30 are a combination of 2 prophecies from the OT:

Jesus' ascension to the Father

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

Each tribe from the land of Israel mourning
Zechariah 12:10-14 And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each tribe by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.

What I don't understand is why futurists literalize "every eye will see him", but then for some reason make "must soon take place" and "the time is near" to mean the exact opposite: 2000+ years later.

Revelation 1:1-3 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servantsa the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

Did the temple fall? was Jerusalem destroyed? Yes and we have witnesses.
 
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parousia70

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Did you know there were priests outside of israelwho were not removed from the kingdom?
They continued practicing judaism,all the dsys of thier lives.
.

Impossible.
 
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iamlamad

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See my thread on the parousia in Luke 21:

Is the "parousia" showing in Luke 21?

Luke 21:27
“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Revelation 14:14
Then I looked, and behold! a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man,
having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle..
You must recognize that sitting on a cloud and coming to earth are two different things? Do you think God really will harvest with a sickle?
 
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iamlamad

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The high priest Caiaphas saw Jesus coming on the clouds of Heaven FROM NOW ON. He is one of those that pierced him.

Matthew 24:64-65 Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, FROM NOW ON YOU will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy. What is your judgment?” They answered, “He deserves death.”

"behold 3708 horáō" is the greek word for see. This greek word means properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception). It's aorist imperative active, thus it is a command.

The "is coming with the clouds" is present tense. Therefore, It is a command to see/spiritually perceive that Jesus is presently coming on the clouds.

Revelation 1:7 Behold (command), He is coming (present tense) with the clouds,

So what does it mean that Jesus is coming on the clouds?
Daniel 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

It means that he is at the right hand of the Father with all dominion and glory and an everlasting kingdom.
Daniel 7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

So it is not the "son of man coming on the clouds" that is future, but an ever present reality from the cross onward, for that occurred at Jesus' death resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father. And even Caiaphas "saw" that "from now on" at the point of Jesus' crucifixion. All believers today should behold that Jesus is coming on the clouds because he is in heaven at the right hand of the father with all authority and power.

However, what was future to the disciples and people of Israel was the 1.) the appearing of the sign IN HEAVEN and 2.) the mourning of all the tribes of the land when they saw/spiritually understood Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven after Jerusalem's destruction.
matthew 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Revelation 1:7 is specifically about the Israel because:
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the landwill wailb on account of him. Even so. Amen.

1.) Revelation 1:7 is also found in the olivet discourse, which is said to take place immediately after the tribulation of Jerusalem.
matthew 24:29-30 IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

2.) revelation 1:7 and Matthew 24:30 are a combination of 2 prophecies from the OT:

Jesus' ascension to the Father

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

Each tribe from the land of Israel mourning
Zechariah 12:10-14 And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each tribe by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.

What I don't understand is why futurists literalize "every eye will see him", but then for some reason make "must soon take place" and "the time is near" to mean the exact opposite: 2000+ years later.

Revelation 1:1-3 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servantsa the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

Did the temple fall? was Jerusalem destroyed? Yes and we have witnesses.

How easily you have erased a future "coming on the clouds" (in your own mind) by human reasoning.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days" is still future - and so is His coming. Believe it!
 
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shilohsfoal

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The high priest Caiaphas saw Jesus coming on the clouds of Heaven FROM NOW ON. He is one of those that pierced him.

Matthew 24:64-65 Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, FROM NOW ON YOU will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy. What is your judgment?” They answered, “He deserves death.”

"behold 3708 horáō" is the greek word for see. This greek word means properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception). It's aorist imperative active, thus it is a command.

The "is coming with the clouds" is present tense. Therefore, It is a command to see/spiritually perceive that Jesus is presently coming on the clouds.

Revelation 1:7 Behold (command), He is coming (present tense) with the clouds,

So what does it mean that Jesus is coming on the clouds?
Daniel 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

It means that he is at the right hand of the Father with all dominion and glory and an everlasting kingdom.
Daniel 7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

So it is not the "son of man coming on the clouds" that is future, but an ever present reality from the cross onward, for that occurred at Jesus' death resurrection and ascension to the right hand of the Father. And even Caiaphas "saw" that "from now on" at the point of Jesus' crucifixion. All believers today should behold that Jesus is coming on the clouds because he is in heaven at the right hand of the father with all authority and power.

However, what was future to the disciples and people of Israel was the 1.) the appearing of the sign IN HEAVEN and 2.) the mourning of all the tribes of the land when they saw/spiritually understood Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven after Jerusalem's destruction.
matthew 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Revelation 1:7 is specifically about the Israel because:
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the landwill wailb on account of him. Even so. Amen.

1.) Revelation 1:7 is also found in the olivet discourse, which is said to take place immediately after the tribulation of Jerusalem.
matthew 24:29-30 IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

2.) revelation 1:7 and Matthew 24:30 are a combination of 2 prophecies from the OT:

Jesus' ascension to the Father

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.

Each tribe from the land of Israel mourning
Zechariah 12:10-14 And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each tribe by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.

What I don't understand is why futurists literalize "every eye will see him", but then for some reason make "must soon take place" and "the time is near" to mean the exact opposite: 2000+ years later.

Revelation 1:1-3 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servantsa the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

Did the temple fall? was Jerusalem destroyed? Yes and we have witnesses.

So you are spokeman of Caiaphus now?Where is Caiaphus's testimony of seeing Christ comein the clouds of heaven?
 
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claninja

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How easily you have erased a future "coming on the clouds" (in your own mind) by human reasoning.

You are entitled to your opinion, but this doesn't really address anything I posted.

FROM NOW ON, Caiaphas would see Jesus sitting at the right hand AND coming on the clouds of heaven. This was almost 2000 years ago. Do you believe Jesus is currently sitting at the right hand? If so, you also believe he is coming on the clouds.

Matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, FROM NOW ON you will see the Son of Man sitting (present tense) at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming (present tense) on the clouds of heaven.”

Do you believe Jesus came to the Father to receive glory and honor? If so, you spiritually understand that Jesus is coming on the clouds.
Daniel 7:13 In my vision in the night I continued to watch: And I saw One like a Son of Man
coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence.

So Again, it is not the coming on the clouds of heaven to the Father that is just future, it is a present reality. What was future to the disciples was the "sign of the son of man appearing IN HEAVEN, and the tribes of the land mourning After Jerusalem was destroyed.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days" is still future - and so is His coming. Believe it!

Jesus stated that the generation in front of him would not pass away until ALL these things happened; that includes the tribulation and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

Matthew 24:34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.

The temple and Jerusalem, were in fact destroyed within that generation, do you disagree?
 
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claninja

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So you are spokeman of Caiaphus now?Where is Caiaphus's testimony of seeing Christ comein the clouds of heaven?

I believe Jesus' testimony that Caiaphus would FROM NOW ON see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 26:64 “You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, FROM NOW ON you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Do you disagree with Jesus words?
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Jesus and the Kingdom do not appear to the world until the lawless one attacks them. Then, they are destroyed, by the brightness of the Glory. Revelation 19.

We are near that time. But, Babylon has not fallen yet, which the Beast causes to happen. Babylon is representative of 'the Christian religious establishment'.

The Beast can be said to be representative of the leading nations of the world. Or, 'the world'. Most specifically, it will manifest in certain smaller groups and individuals. But, it is much more then them.

Some think the second woe must be recognized by religious scholars, their own selves included, for these later things to happen. But, they are not apprised.

The 'Christian religious establishment' will fall through the downfall of the Catholic Church. By 'the Beast'. So, when the Pope is finished due to his criminal conspiracies hitting the front pages, and it becomes a scandal even to be a member then you can know who is who and see what happens next.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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The 'Christian religious establishment' will fall through the downfall of the Catholic Church. By 'the Beast'. So, when the Pope is finished due to his criminal conspiracies hitting the front pages, and it becomes a scandal even to be a member then you can know who is who and see what happens next.
You must recognize that sitting on a cloud and coming to earth are two different things? Do you think God really will harvest with a sickle?
No, he used Vespasian/Titus and the Roman army in 70ad for that, just like he used the Babylonian army in the OT.

Ezr 5:12
“But because our fathers provoked the God of heaven to wrath, He gave them into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Chaldean, who destroyed this temple and carried the people away to Babylon

Now fast forward to Herod's Temple

Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.

Mark 13:
1 And He going forth out of the Temple,

Luke 21:
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple


Now let's look at the word "parousia" Jesus uses in Matthew 24:


Matthew 24:
3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when? shall these be and what? the sign of Thy ParousiaV <3952>,
and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'
27 for even as the lightning/star-flashes<796> comes-out from risings, and is appearing till of west, thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;
37For as even the days of the Noah thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;
39 and not they know till came the flood and took/lifted all! away. Thus shall be also the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man.

Now look at Luke 21:24 [remember, this is the same discourse as Matthew 24:


Luke 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”


Also the same event:

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon Thee, and thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart<5482> to thee, and shall be encompassing<4033> thee, and pressing thee every which place. 44 And shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation/episkophV <1984>".

That's why James could tell those same 1st century Jews that the Parousia was near! [this said BEFORE the 70ad siege by Titus.

James 5:8
be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye, that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448> (5758);

Revelation 18:8
by this, in one day shall be arriving<2240> the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be being burned,
that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her



.
 
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shilohsfoal

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I believe Jesus' testimony that Caiaphus would FROM NOW ON see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 26:64 “You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, FROM NOW ON you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Do you disagree with Jesus words?


Your the one speaking for caiaphus.Dont ask me what he saw or when he would see it.
By the way,when are you saying Caiaphus saw Jesus coming in the clouds?
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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No, he used Vespasian/Titus and the Roman army in 70ad for that, just like he used the Babylonian army in the OT.

Ezr 5:12
“But because our fathers provoked the God of heaven to wrath, He gave them into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Chaldean, who destroyed this temple and carried the people away to Babylon

Now fast forward to Herod's Temple

Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.

Mark 13:
1 And He going forth out of the Temple,

Luke 21:
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple


Now let's look at the word "parousia" Jesus uses in Matthew 24:


Matthew 24:
3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when? shall these be and what? the sign of Thy ParousiaV <3952>,
and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'
27 for even as the lightning/star-flashes<796> comes-out from risings, and is appearing till of west, thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;
37For as even the days of the Noah thus shall be the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man;
39 and not they know till came the flood and took/lifted all! away. Thus shall be also the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man.

Now look at Luke 21:24 [remember, this is the same discourse as Matthew 24:


Luke 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”


Also the same event:

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon Thee, and thy Enemies shall be casting up a rampart<5482> to thee, and shall be encompassing<4033> thee, and pressing thee every which place. 44 And shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation/episkophV <1984>".

That's why James could tell those same 1st century Jews that the Parousia was near! [this said BEFORE the 70ad siege by Titus.

James 5:8
be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye, that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448> (5758);

Revelation 18:8
by this, in one day shall be arriving<2240> the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be being burned,
that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her



.


I am not sure why you quoted my response here, but you have just quoted my response on another thread. And, your response there was full of inaccuracies, both in quoting myself, another poster, and Scripture.

You seem to be on a fever pitched run trying to tell everyone, 'it is okay, God will blame all of your sins on the Jews. You won't be held accountable for them.'

I can see why that line makes you popular.

Regardless, the end to the lawless one is coming soon, and with it, the revealing of the Kingdom of God.

The lawless one will attack the Kingdom of God after it brings down Babylon, and it will be destroyed.

As for now, the saints are already starting their feast.

Jesus did not come to destroy the world, but to save it. God put the world into such deep sin so the fulcrum of change would be seismic, like a long stretched back bow finally released.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You seem to be on a fever pitched run trying to tell everyone, 'it is okay, God will blame all of your sins on the Jews. You won't be held accountable for them.'
Here we go with the ole anti-Jewish card again, as shown in this other thread also........
DreamerOfTheHeart said:
You have taken Scripture and tailored it to a false reading, so as to tell people that 'all the bad things' will happen to Israel, instead of to Gentile nations. Everybody else.
That is, 'blame it all on the Jews'.
DreamerOfTheHeart said:
The 'Christian religious establishment' will fall through the downfall of the Catholic Church. By 'the Beast'. So, when the Pope is finished due to his criminal conspiracies hitting the front pages, and it becomes a scandal even to be a member then you can know who is who and see what happens next.
Not 1 prophecy in the OT or NT is against the Pope and/or Rome....

Mat 23:

30 “and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.'
31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.


Luk 11:50

that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,
"THIS GENERATION" in Bible CLICK ME


Rev 16:6
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,

And You have given them blood to drink.
For[fn] it is their just due.”
Rev 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
“For her sins have reached[fn] to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

Lam 4:
11 The LORD has fulfilled His fury, He has poured out His fierce anger. [Revelation 15:1]

He kindled a fire in Zion, And it has devoured its foundations.
13 Because of the sins of her prophets and the iniquities of her priests,
Who shed in her midst the blood of the just.


Revelation 15:1
And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Seven Messengers having seven stripes/blows, the last,
that in them is finished the fury of the GOD


.
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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Here we go with the ole anti-Jewish card again, as shown in this other thread also........


Not 1 prophecy in the OT or NT is against the Pope and/or Rome....

Mat 23:

30 “and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.'
31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.


Luk 11:50

that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,
"THIS GENERATION" in Bible CLICK ME


Rev 16:6
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,

And You have given them blood to drink.
For[fn] it is their just due.”
Rev 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
“For her sins have reached[fn] to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

Lam 4:
11 The LORD has fulfilled His fury, He has poured out His fierce anger. [Revelation 15:1]

He kindled a fire in Zion, And it has devoured its foundations.
13 Because of the sins of her prophets and the iniquities of her priests,
Who shed in her midst the blood of the just.


Revelation 15:1
And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Seven Messengers having seven stripes/blows, the last,
that in them is finished the fury of the GOD


.


You are probably well used to being called racist, why? Maybe because you are preaching anti-jewish conspiracy theories all over the place?

Stuff Hitler used to do.

Holocaust? Bad thing? WWI & WWIi? Bad things.

Hitler's attempt to revive the "Holy" Roman Empire failed. He was called the "German Messiah" and claimed their Regime (reich) would last a 1000 years - right out of Revelation. Lies that appealed to the German people because Germany was the seat of the "Holy" "Roman" Empire from 800 to 1806.

Part of that fanaticism was to blame it all on the Jews, and urge genocide, claiming it was good.

Which is what you are doing. Yet, Israel is a minor state, and Jews are hardly a blip in world influence.

Claiming them as the "mother of abominations" is absurd. They have been on the run for the past two thousand years, and are a tiny race. They have hardly made any impact.

The beast is already being worshipped.

The beast has been around a long time.

One of the heads died, but came as if back to life.

That is what is new about the beast. That is why it is being worshipped around the world, today.

That, and the False Prophet, who causes the world to worship the Beast.

They are astonished because one of the seven heads is as resurrected , and worship the beast, saying, 'who is like the beast, who can make war with the beast?'

The beast's seven heads are seven nations.

Nothing to do with Jews or Israel.

Obviously. Israel is not a world leading Kingdom, as the statue of Daniel states it would be. Iron (rome, identified as) mixed with clay.

Hrm, the empire had to follow Rome... as global ruling empire... was that... Israel? No. Nope, Israel is not a global ruling empire.

Does not fit at all, then. Sadly, for you, I suppose your weirs hatred of Jews simply is not backed up by God.

Hitler tried, and failed. Not happening again.

God didn't destroy their nation, send them wandering among wolves for two thousand years, allow them to do the Holocaust... fulfill Zechariah verses about returning... just to destroy them, again.

Not like God. That is difficult to fathom sadism and cruelty. Bizarre. Like, "what if some virulent, internet random neo-nazi's view of God" was real.

Well, it isn't. If God supported the Nazis, he wouldn't have allowed them to be defeated in such a humiliating way. God has made anti-semitism a shame, globally.


harlot of Babylon - Wikipedia

Rome and the Roman EmpireEdit
See also: Dea Roma
Many Biblical scholars[7][8] believe that "Babylon" is a metaphor for the pagan Roman Empire at the time it persecuted Christians, before the Edict of Milan in 313: perhaps specifically referencing some aspect of Rome's rule (brutality, greed, paganism). Some exegetes interpret the passage as a scathing critique of a servant people of Rome who do the Empire's bidding, interpreting that the author of Revelation was speaking of the Herodians—a party of Jews friendly to Rome and open to its influence, like the Hellenizersof centuries past—and later, corrupt Hasmoneans, where the ruler of Jerusalem or Roman Judeaexercised his power at the pleasure of the Emperor, and was dependent on Roman influence, like Herod the Great in the Gospel of Luke.

In 4 Ezra,[9][10] 2 Baruch[11] and the Sibylline Oracles,[12] "Babylon" is a cryptic name for Rome.[13]Reinhard Feldmeier speculates that "Babylon" is used to refer to Rome in 1 Peter 5:13.[14] In Revelation 17:9 it is said that she sits on "seven mountains",[15]typically understood as the seven hills of Rome.[16][17][18][19][20] A Roman coin minted under the Emperor Vespasian (ca. 70 AD) depicts Rome as a woman sitting on seven hills.[21]

According to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, "The characteristics ascribed to this Babylon apply to Rome rather than to any other city of that age: (a) as ruling over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18); (b) as sitting on seven mountains (Revelation 17:9); (c) as the center of the world's merchandise (Revelation 18:3, 11–13); (d) as the corrupter of the nations (Revelation 17:2; 18:3; 19:2); (e) as the persecutor of the saints (Revelation 17:6)."[22]

According to Eusebius of Caesarea Babylon would be Rome or the Roman Empire:

"And Peter makes mention of Mark in his first epistle which they say that he wrote in Rome itself, as is indicated by him, when he calls the city, by a figure, Babylon, as he does in the following words: «The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, salutes you; and so does Marcus my son.»(1 Peter 5:13)" [23]
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You are probably well used to being called racist, why? Maybe because you are preaching anti-jewish conspiracy theories all over the place?
Imply that I am racist or anti-semetic one more time and I will report you. Just fair warning........

If you bother to even look at these verses, you will see it is addressed to the 1st century OC Judean rulers and priesthood, not the common Jews.


Matthew 23:
15 Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! That ye are going about the sea and the dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte, and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV<1067> twofold-more of ye-selves
33 "Serpents! brood of vipers!
how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>
[Luke 16:24 Reve 14:11]

Would you also call this commentator "anti-Jewish" because he sees the 1st century Jews as the Rich man in this parable?

Purple and fine linen (NKJV)

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:
14 The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus

19 A certain Man was rich and clothed in purple and fine linen making-merry down to a-day, shiningly<2988>
[Matt 22:11 Revelation 18]
24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue;
for I am tormented in this flame.' "[Matthew 23:33]

We begin by scrutinizing the description Yeshua gives us of the rich man. First, he tells us that this man was clothed in purple and fine linen.
This type of clothing would not have been out of the ordinary for one of considerable wealth during this time period.

However, this attire also has symbolic meaning. The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary says: "The wearing of purple was associated particularly with royalty . . ." (p. 863, "Purple").

So we see that the garments worn by this rich man were symbolic of royalty and the priesthood. With that in mind, let's see what God told Moses just before giving the Israelites the Law on Mount Sinai:................

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.

This detail cements the identity of the rich Man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

Notice Revelation 18 and 1st century Jerusalem shown clothed in fine linen and purple.
I highly recommend you study on that covenantle parable in Luke 16 ;)


Revelation 18
7 As much as glorifies herself, and indulges be giving to her tormenting and mourning that in her heart she is saying
'I am sitting a Queen and widow not I am and mourning not I shall be seeing'.
12 cargo/replete of gold and of silver and of stone, precious and of pearl and of fine-linen and of purple
and of silk and of scarlet and every wood citron..........
16 and saying "woe! woe! the great City, the one having been clothed in fine linen and purple
and scarlet and having been golded to gold and stone, precious and pearls






,


.
 
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shilohsfoal

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You are probably well used to being called racist, why? Maybe because you are preaching anti-jewish conspiracy theories all over the place?

Stuff Hitler used to do.

Holocaust? Bad thing? WWI & WWIi? Bad things.

Hitler's attempt to revive the "Holy" Roman Empire failed. He was called the "German Messiah" and claimed their Regime (reich) would last a 1000 years - right out of Revelation. Lies that appealed to the German people because Germany was the seat of the "Holy" "Roman" Empire from 800 to 1806.

Part of that fanaticism was to blame it all on the Jews, and urge genocide, claiming it was good.

Which is what you are doing. Yet, Israel is a minor state, and Jews are hardly a blip in world influence.

Claiming them as the "mother of abominations" is absurd. They have been on the run for the past two thousand years, and are a tiny race. They have hardly made any impact.

The beast is already being worshipped.

The beast has been around a long time.

One of the heads died, but came as if back to life.

That is what is new about the beast. That is why it is being worshipped around the world, today.

That, and the False Prophet, who causes the world to worship the Beast.

They are astonished because one of the seven heads is as resurrected , and worship the beast, saying, 'who is like the beast, who can make war with the beast?'

The beast's seven heads are seven nations.

Nothing to do with Jews or Israel.

Obviously. Israel is not a world leading Kingdom, as the statue of Daniel states it would be. Iron (rome, identified as) mixed with clay.

Hrm, the empire had to follow Rome... as global ruling empire... was that... Israel? No. Nope, Israel is not a global ruling empire.

Does not fit at all, then. Sadly, for you, I suppose your weirs hatred of Jews simply is not backed up by God.

Hitler tried, and failed. Not happening again.

God didn't destroy their nation, send them wandering among wolves for two thousand years, allow them to do the Holocaust... fulfill Zechariah verses about returning... just to destroy them, again.

Not like God. That is difficult to fathom sadism and cruelty. Bizarre. Like, "what if some virulent, internet random neo-nazi's view of God" was real.

Well, it isn't. If God supported the Nazis, he wouldn't have allowed them to be defeated in such a humiliating way. God has made anti-semitism a shame, globally.


harlot of Babylon - Wikipedia

Rome and the Roman EmpireEdit
See also: Dea Roma
Many Biblical scholars[7][8] believe that "Babylon" is a metaphor for the pagan Roman Empire at the time it persecuted Christians, before the Edict of Milan in 313: perhaps specifically referencing some aspect of Rome's rule (brutality, greed, paganism). Some exegetes interpret the passage as a scathing critique of a servant people of Rome who do the Empire's bidding, interpreting that the author of Revelation was speaking of the Herodians—a party of Jews friendly to Rome and open to its influence, like the Hellenizersof centuries past—and later, corrupt Hasmoneans, where the ruler of Jerusalem or Roman Judeaexercised his power at the pleasure of the Emperor, and was dependent on Roman influence, like Herod the Great in the Gospel of Luke.

In 4 Ezra,[9][10] 2 Baruch[11] and the Sibylline Oracles,[12] "Babylon" is a cryptic name for Rome.[13]Reinhard Feldmeier speculates that "Babylon" is used to refer to Rome in 1 Peter 5:13.[14] In Revelation 17:9 it is said that she sits on "seven mountains",[15]typically understood as the seven hills of Rome.[16][17][18][19][20] A Roman coin minted under the Emperor Vespasian (ca. 70 AD) depicts Rome as a woman sitting on seven hills.[21]

According to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, "The characteristics ascribed to this Babylon apply to Rome rather than to any other city of that age: (a) as ruling over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18); (b) as sitting on seven mountains (Revelation 17:9); (c) as the center of the world's merchandise (Revelation 18:3, 11–13); (d) as the corrupter of the nations (Revelation 17:2; 18:3; 19:2); (e) as the persecutor of the saints (Revelation 17:6)."[22]

According to Eusebius of Caesarea Babylon would be Rome or the Roman Empire:

"And Peter makes mention of Mark in his first epistle which they say that he wrote in Rome itself, as is indicated by him, when he calls the city, by a figure, Babylon, as he does in the following words: «The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, salutes you; and so does Marcus my son.»(1 Peter 5:13)" [23]

Do you believe jesus is right or wrong?
Matthew 23:33 You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell?
Matthew 23:34 Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town.
Matthew 23:35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
Matthew 23:36 Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!

Now jesus just condemned the leaders of the jewish people calling them by the name "Jerusalem" saying they are quilty of the blood of every righteous person on the earth.This eould include the blood spilt in this place spiritually called babylon if it is found anywhere on the earth.

Now it appears you are saying Jesus is wrong and that someone else is responsible for all of the righteous blood shed upon earth.

Now if you insist that jesus is wrong and "Jerusalem" is not responsible for all of the righteous blood shed upon earth,can you prove this with scripture and nit your own words?
 
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claninja

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Your the one speaking for caiaphus.Dont ask me what he saw or when he would see it.

I believe Jesus when He stated Caiaphas would FROM NOW ON see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven.
Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Do you believe Jesus was wrong? Caiaphus didn't really FROM NOW ON see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven?

By the way,when are you saying Caiaphus saw Jesus coming in the clouds?

Quoting from scripture: From now on

Matthew 24:64 Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
 
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