Christs second coming

[jgr]

No, I don't deny it. jgr introduced Zechariah 12:10 into the discussion by first stating in his post #144 "Including Judas and Caiaphas."

Which I never said anything about Judas and Caiaphas, but Jews for 2000 years have rejected Jesus, which will change during the middle of the 70th week.

then in his post #146, jgr goes off on Zechariah 12:10. What's that got to with Jews in this generation accepting Jesus, I don't know.

and then later in his post#158, as though that had something to do with disproving Revelation 12:10 is about the Jews of this generation receiving Jesus during the middle of the 70th week. I was never using Zechariah 12:10 as a prove text for Revelation 12:10, the Jews receiving Jesus in the middle of the 70th week. I don't see the connection of why he brought it up, to me.

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Zechariah 12:10 could be used as proof text for Revelation 1:7 though at Jesus's return at the end of the 70th week.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

That verse could be debated whether it means the Romans or the Jews or both.

I've been arguing dispensationally. I personally certainly believe that Zechariah 12:10 has been fulfilled.

Dispensationalists who claim that Zechariah 12:10 refers to future national Israel cannot escape its inclusion of Judas and Caiaphas et al. Nor is there any explicit or implicit reference to Jews of this present or future generation.

It cannot refer to the Romans, as Zechariah 12:12-14 refers to the house of David et al.

 

[Douggg]

It cannot refer to the Romans, as Zechariah 12:12-14 refers to the house of David et al.

It could be argued that Revelation 1:7 is referring to the Romans, because the Romans are actually who pierced him. On the other hand, Revelation 1:7 could be referring to the Jews, because when they see Jesus they will weep over him like an only son. Or it could be referring to both. I am not adamant over it.

 

[jgr]

It could be argued that Revelation 1:7 is referring to the Romans, because the Romans are actually who pierced him. On the other hand, Revelation 1:7 could be referring to the Jews, because when they see Jesus they will wept over him like an only son. Or it could be referring to both. I am not adamant over it.

Zechariah 12 does not refer to the Romans.

 

[Douggg]

Zechariah 12 does not refer to the Romans.

I would lean toward Revelation 1:7 referring to the Jews.

 

[shilohsfoal]

And I'm quoting scripture of when Jesus stated that Caiaphas would:
Matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One AND coming on the clouds of heaven.”

When did Jesus come to the Father on the clouds of heaven to sit at the right hand?

Well ,i guess Caiaphus has evetlasting life then.From now on means forever doesnt it.Caiaphus must not had ever died.

It would also mean Caiaphus could see jesus sitting beside God before Jesus even died.And caiaphus could see Jesus coming i theclouds before he even ascended into heaven.

 

[BABerean2]

Which I never said anything about Judas and Caiaphas, but Jews for 2000 years have rejected Jesus, which will change during the middle of the 70th week.

then in his post #146, jgr goes off on Zechariah 12:10. What's that got to with Jews in this generation accepting Jesus, I don't know.

Because your statement above is false.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel", and about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on that day.
Some Jews are accepting Christ now.

Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled at Calvary, and on the Day of Pentecost.

Dispensationalists often quote Zechariah 12:10 as a future prophecy.

.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Because your statement above is false.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel", and about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on that day.
Some Jews are accepting Christ now.

Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled at Calvary, and on the Day of Pentecost.

Dispensationalists often quote Zechariah 12:10 as a future prophecy.

.

Actally if yoy keep the versr in context,it would be the future.But if you take that verse out of context and out of the chapter then you could fit it in to the day of pentacost.

 

[BABerean2]

Actally if yoy keep the versr in context,it would be the future.But if you take that verse out of context and out of the chapter then you could fit it in to the day of pentacost.

Are you saying John was wrong in John 19:37?

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[Douggg]

Because your statement above is false.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel", and about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on that day.
Some Jews are accepting Christ now.

3,000 out of how many Jews from the nations were in Jerusalem that day for Pentecost?


I wrote that Revelation 12 is the 70th week relevant to Israel. And that Revelation 12:10 was the Jews turning to Jesus, in the middle of the 70th week. I was not denying that there have been Jews becoming Christians over the past 2000 years. But by and large, Jews have rejected Jesus for the past 2000 years. And that is the present situation. To be changed in the middle of the 70th week.

That Jews as a whole reject Jesus is common knowledge. .

 

[BABerean2]

3,000 out of how many Jews from the nations were in Jerusalem that day for Pentecost?


I wrote that Revelation 12 is the 70th week relevant to Israel. And that Revelation 12:10 was the Jews turning to Jesus, in the middle of the 70th week. I was not denying that there have been Jews becoming Christians over the past 2000 years. But by and large, Jews have rejected Jesus for the past 2000 years. And that is the present situation. To be changed in the middle of the 70th week.

That Jews as a whole reject Jesus is common knowledge. .

Since the 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century, your future conversion during the middle of the 70th week is going to be quite a trick.
(Matthew 10:5-7, Romans 1:16, Galatians 1:14-18)

Have you built a time machine?

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[Douggg]

Since the 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century, your future conversion during the middle of the 70th week is going to be quite a trick.
(Matthew 10:5-7, Romans 1:16, Galatians 1:14-18)

Have you built a time machine?

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You're being in error, doesn't make my statement regarding Revelation 12 false. That the Jews as a whole don't accept Jesus is common knowledge.

There being 3000 who came to Jesus in Acts, is 3000 out of how many that were there in Jerusalem for Pentecost?

 

[BABerean2]

There being 3000 who came to Jesus in Acts, is 3000 out of how many that were there in Jerusalem for Pentecost?

How many were there that heard Peter's speech on that day?

.

 

[Douggg]

How many were there that heard Peter's speech on that day?

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Why don't you just say I don't know, instead of asking me another question back. My point is that the Jews for the most part even back then did not accept Jesus as the messiah. If they had, they would not have gone into exile for 2000 years.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why don't you just say I don't know, instead of asking me the question back. My point is that the Jews for the most part even back then did not accept Jesus as the messiah. If they had, they would not have gone into exile for 2000 years.

AND
if the Jews had accepted Yahshua as Messiah, .......
or rather
because they did not, they were cut out, the natural branches cut out,
so that
the gentiles (from pagan nations without hope in the world)
COULD BE GRAFTED IN !

SURPRISE ! Gentiles could be SAVED ! HALLELUYAH !

 

[BABerean2]

Why don't you just say I don't know, instead of asking me another question back. My point is that the Jews for the most part even back then did not accept Jesus as the messiah. If they had, they would not have gone into exile for 2000 years.

Rom 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,

Rom 9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.


Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.


Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB;



Nowhere does the Bible say that a whole nation of Jews will come to salvation during a future time.
The "remnant" will be saved.

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[LittleLambofJesus]

AND
if the Jews had accepted Yahshua as Messiah, ....... or rathe because they did not, they were cut out, the natural branches cut out, so that the gentiles (from pagan nations without hope in the world) COULD BE GRAFTED IN !
SURPRISE ! Gentiles could be SAVED ! HALLELUYAH !

What a beautiful word! It is used 4 times in the NT/NC of the Bible.

The victory of the NC/New Jerusalem Saints over the OC harlot of Israel.....1st century Jerusalem.....
AMEN! HALLELUYAH!

https://israelstudycenter.com/hebrew-hallelujah/
“Hallelu” (הללו) and “Yah” (יה).

Luke 19:43
That shall be arriving<2240> days upon Thee and the enemies of Thee shall be casting a siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee and together-pressing<4912> Thee every which place.
[Revelation 18:8]

Revelation 18
7 As much as She glorifies Herself, and indulges,
be giving to Her tormenting and mourning that in Her heart She is saying
'I am sitting a Queen and widow not I am and mourning not I shall be seeing'.
8 By this, in one day shall be arriving<2240> the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine. And in fire She shall be being burned,........................

Revelation 8:8
And the second Messenger trumpets and as-like a mountain[Mt Sinai?], great to fire burning, was cast into the Sea and became the third of the Sea blood
[Matthew 21:21 Galatians 4:24-25 Hebrews 12:18]

Revelation 19:1
1 ...... "HALLELUYAH! the salvation............
3 And a second-time they have declared "HALLELUYAH!......
4 ........"AMEN HALLELUYAH!".
6 .........."HALLELUYAH! that reigns Lord the God *of-us, the Almighty.

Galatians 4
24 which things is an allegory. For these are the two Covenants,
one indeed from mount Sinai into servitude generating who-any is Hagar.
25 For the Hagar mount Sinai is in Arabia, is together-elemental yet to now Jerusalem slaving/serving with the offpsprings of Her.

Hebrew 12:18
For not ye have come toward to being handled a mountain having been kindled to fire and to murkiness and to darkness and to tempest.

Exodus 19:18
Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace,
and the whole mountain[fn] quaked greatly.

......................

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[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sorry, no. The "harlot" is not as you posted. According to Scripture it was shown already in the past, repeatedly, that that information in your posts is wrong. (I don't know if we can argue this in this forum or not; but I'd rather not .... )

 

[parousia70]

3,000 out of how many Jews from the nations were in Jerusalem that day for Pentecost?
.

Why does that matter?
In Elijah's era, the multitude of Israelites who worshiped the false god Baal was so great that faithful Israel narrowed to a mere seven thousand men (1 Kings 19:1-18; Rom 11:2-4) and the rest were excommunicated out of the Covenant forever. That faithful remnant at that time constituted ALL Israel, and from that time forward ONLY the descendants of those 7000 were Gods Covenanted Israel. The rest, again, were cut off forever.

That's how God preserves His remnant in times of Great Apostasy.

That is what happened in the 1st century.

Israel survived *exclusively* in the sect of the Nazarenes. They received with joy their promised New Covenant and obediently rejected all former biases against the non-Abrahamic families of earth so that Genesis 12:3 might finally be attained (Gal 3:7-9/Rom 4:13-18)---via the work of the Jewish Messiah.

 

[iamlamad]

Sorry, no. The "harlot" is not as you posted. According to Scripture it was shown already in the past, repeatedly, that that information in your posts is wrong. (I don't know if we can argue this in this forum or not; but I'd rather not .... )

The woman seen riding the beast is referring to the city of Jerusalem. After all, John wrote "is that great city." But this city of Jerusalem will only be referred to as Mystery Babylon while the Beast and False Prophet are there deceiving the whole world!

 

[iamlamad]

AND
if the Jews had accepted Yahshua as Messiah, .......
or rather
because they did not, they were cut out, the natural branches cut out,
so that
the gentiles (from pagan nations without hope in the world)
COULD BE GRAFTED IN !

SURPRISE ! Gentiles could be SAVED ! HALLELUYAH !

Glory to God forever and ever!