Christs second coming

[Douggg]

Matthew 23:34 Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town.

Some of them you [relgious leaders] will kill and crucify, and others
you [religious leaders] will flog in your [religious leaders'] synagogues.

Luke 24:
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

 

[Douggg]

What you said above is not in the Bible.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

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Revelation 12:10 is not in the bible?

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

[jgr]

The Jews will turn to Jesus in the middle of the 70th week.

Including Judas and Caiaphas.

 

[Douggg]

Including Judas and Caiaphas.

Revelation 12:6-17, is about what takes place during the 70th week relevant to Israel.

Jews of this generation, as we are very close to the 70th week.

 

[jgr]

Revelation 12:6-17, is about what takes place during the 70th week relevant to Israel.

Jews of this generation, as we are very close to the 70th week.

Jews of this generation did not pierce Him.

Judas and Caiaphas did.

Zechariah 12
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[Douggg]

Jews of this generation did not pierce Him.

Judas and Caiaphas did.

Zechariah 12
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

It is talking about the Jewish people in general, who have rejected Jesus for 2000 years, but will receive him during the 70th week.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Some of them you [relgious leaders] will kill and crucify, and others
you [religious leaders] will flog in your [religious leaders'] synagogues.

Luke 24:
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Matthew 23:34 Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town.

Jesus is not talking about himself here.He is talking about the disciples he sends throughout Israel preaching the gospel just before the end.
Those in israel he choses that is.

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 23:34 Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town.

Jesus is not talking about himself here.He is talking about the disciples he sends throughout Israel preaching the gospel just before the end.
Those in israel he choses that is.

The ones carrying out persecutions and deaths were the scribes and pharisees. Which before his road to Damascus encounter with Jesus - Paul was one.

 

[BABerean2]

Revelation 12:10 is not in the bible?

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

You are attempting to use the old "bait and switch" game, if you think Revelation 12:10 equals the Jews coming to faith in Christ.

The word "Jews" is not found in the verse.
The verse is about Satan being cast out of heaven.

"The Jews will turn to Jesus in the middle of the 70th week."

Satan was cast down long ago. See Jude 1:6.
The birth and death of Christ is also found in the chapter.

The beginning of the chapter is a history lesson.

Rev 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
Rev 12:2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
Rev 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
Rev 12:4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.
Rev 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
Rev 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,
Rev 12:8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
Rev 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

In the last verse above we find members of the Church of Jesus Christ, who are under the blood of the Lamb.


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[Douggg]

Satan was cast down long ago. See Jude 1:6.
The birth and death of Christ is also found in the chapter.

Third heaven in Jude 1:6.

Revelation 12:7-9 is from the second heaven, the cosmos. Which near the end of the 70th will be...

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

The birth and death of Christ is also found in the chapter.

The beginning of the chapter is a history lesson.

I agree. And when it gets to Revelation 12:6, it is about the end times, the first half of the 70th week.

 

[claninja]

So you believe the minut jesus told caiaphus he would see him at the right hans of God,Caiaphus saw Jesus at the right hand of God?

I believe the context is the crucifixion of Jesus. Jesus was crucified the very next day
Matthew 27:1 When morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death.

The context is that by suffering, Christ was lifted up. And so, through becoming the perfect sacrificial lamb, Christ was raised from the dead and came on the clouds to the Father to receive all glory, power, dominion, and a kingdom.
Luke 24:26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?”

Jesus ascended to heaven to receive a kingdom
Luke 19:12 said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return
Colossians 1:13 has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Jesus ascended to heaven to the right hand of the Father and received all power and dominion
Ephesians 1:20-21 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come

Jesus was taken into heaven on the clouds
Acts 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight

Thus the NT shows that Daniel 7:13-14 has been fulfilled, for Jesus Did COME TO the father on the clouds to receive a kingdom, power, and to enter glory
Daniel 7:13-14 saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,

Did Jesus come on the clouds to the Father and sit at his right hand shortly after he said this to Caiaphas? yes

matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”g

I do believe i know when this would take place though.

at his death, resurrection, and ascension,

 

[claninja]

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!

Jerusalem.Not Rome,Not New York,Not Hong Kong.But the leaders of the jewish people in Jerusalem is responsible fforALL the righteoua blood shed uponearth.Not some.Not most,but ALL the righteousblood shedupon earth.
Jesus is not wrong

absolutely agree with you here

 

[shilohsfoal]

The ones carrying out persecutions and deaths were the scribes and pharisees. Which before his road to Damascus encounter with Jesus - Paul was one.

So i take it,you also believe Jesus second coming was two thousand years ago ?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I believe the context is the crucifixion of Jesus. Jesus was crucified the very next day
Matthew 27:1 When morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death.

The context is that by suffering, Christ was lifted up. And so, through becoming the perfect sacrificial lamb, Christ was raised from the dead and came on the clouds to the Father to receive all glory, power, dominion, and a kingdom.
Luke 24:26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and then to enter His glory?”

Jesus ascended to heaven to receive a kingdom
Luke 19:12 said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return
Colossians 1:13 has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,

Jesus ascended to heaven to the right hand of the Father and received all power and dominion
Ephesians 1:20-21 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come

Jesus was taken into heaven on the clouds
Acts 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight

Thus the NT shows that Daniel 7:13-14 has been fulfilled, for Jesus Did COME TO the father on the clouds to receive a kingdom, power, and to enter glory
Daniel 7:13-14 saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,

Did Jesus come on the clouds to the Father and sit at his right hand shortly after he said this to Caiaphas? yes

matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”g




at his death, resurrection, and ascension,

I asked when you ssy Caiaphus saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God and you say on,the day he was crucified?

 

[claninja]

I asked when you ssy Caiaphus saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of God and you say on,the day he was crucified?

And I'm quoting scripture of when Jesus stated that Caiaphas would:
Matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One AND coming on the clouds of heaven.”

When did Jesus come to the Father on the clouds of heaven to sit at the right hand?

 

[BABerean2]

Revelation 12:7-9 is from the second heaven, the cosmos. Which near the end of the 70th will be...

Your problem is that the Second Coming of Christ and "the time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:15-18.

Try to ignore the fact that the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order and maybe you can make your doctrine work...

.

 

[jgr]

It is talking about the Jewish people in general, who have rejected Jesus for 2000 years, but will receive him during the 70th week.

That's not what Zechariah 12:10 says.

It specifically states "...they shall look upon me whom they have pierced".

That specifically includes Judas and Caiaphas.

 

[Douggg]

That's not what Zechariah 12:10 says.

It specifically states "...they shall look upon me whom they have pierced".

That specifically includes Judas and Caiaphas.

If you want to get that specific, who actually pierced Jesus in the text?

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

 

[BABerean2]

If you want to get that specific, who actually pierced Jesus in the text?

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

And John saw it as the fulfillment of the passage from Zechariah.

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."

Do you deny this fact?

.

 

[Douggg]

Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."

Do you deny this fact?

No, I don't deny it. jgr introduced Zechariah 12:10 into the discussion by first stating in his post #144 "Including Judas and Caiaphas."

Which I never said anything about Judas and Caiaphas, but Jews for 2000 years have rejected Jesus, which will change during the middle of the 70th week.

then in his post #146, jgr goes off on Zechariah 12:10. What's that got to with Jews in this generation accepting Jesus, I don't know.

and then later in his post#158, as though that had something to do with disproving Revelation 12:10 is about the Jews of this generation receiving Jesus during the middle of the 70th week. I was never using Zechariah 12:10 as a proof text for Revelation 12:10, the Jews receiving Jesus in the middle of the 70th week. I don't see the connection of why he brought it up, to me.

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Zechariah 12:10 could be used as proof text for Revelation 1:7 though at Jesus's return at the end of the 70th week.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

That verse could be debated whether it means the Romans or the Jews or both.