Question about eternal damnation

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[aiki]

do find it funny, and I find all of the semantic games people employ to support their belief in a hell created by a loving god funny. The god you describe is, IMO, a failure. I wouldn’t think it was funny if there was a possibility of actual people actually going to hell.

Well, your amusement at the biblical truth of hell doesn't somehow make it untrue. "I think your views are funny" is not an argument in favor of your opinion nor an effective refutation of the things I've asserted. It's the sort of "arguing" in which children engage.

 

[FineLinen]

But those that go to the lake of fire are as - depart -I never knew you.

My friend: There is a powerful word in the koine, more powerful than all/pas. It is the all, ta panta=the all. Not "panta" standing alone, that wee word "ta" preceding it. Our God is the Source, the Guide the Goal of the all. When a lost son of Adam1 has a wee experience with our God who IS consuming fire or the Lake of Theos, rest assured there will be no departing, your wee being is changed!

 

[Tom34]

There is no one burn in hell nor in heaven today.

Except someone that was brought to heaven as mentioned in the bible.

This is because, the dead are just asleep. If the dead are in heaven or in hell now, there is no reason for Jesus to come and raise the dead to be brought to heaven.

And...

There is no reason for second death if someone is in hell right now. Consider these verses:

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

Even though, it is mentioned that there will be someone burned forever and ever, that does not mean they will keep burning for infinity.

Being burned till there is nothing left of the sinner is still forever.

At the end, there will be new heaven and earth.

​

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[FineLinen]

Dear Tom from down under. You must be enlarged into the expanses of our God! The word for the new heavens and new earth is kainos and means unprecedented in scope. Our Fathers Realm radiates with new, new creatures transformed by the power of LOVE/FIRE.

One question for you: the Master the Lord Jesus Christ instructed His disciples to gather up leftover pieces of fish & bread "that nothing be lost">>>>>>>

Does the Master of Reconciliation care for leftover bread & fish more than the broken wrecks for whom He is propitiation?

He is [the] propitiation for our sins,

AND

not for our sins

ONLY

but for the sins of the WHOLE world

 

[FineLinen]

 

[Lazarus Short]

Well, your amusement at the biblical truth of hell doesn't somehow make it untrue. "I think your views are funny" is not an argument in favor of your opinion nor an effective refutation of the things I've asserted. It's the sort of "arguing" in which children engage.

I agree, "I think your views are funny" is not an argument at all - but what is? Having been exposed to both sides of the question in my Christian walk, I studied the KJV for two years. What I found in regard to "hell" - a word not found in Hebrew or Greek, was biased translation, like this:

"judgment" was rendered as "condemnation"

"condemnation" was rendered as "damnation"

"sheol" was rendered as "hell"

"hades" was rendered as "hell"

"gehenna" was rendered as "hell"

and

"tartaros" was rendered as "hell".

Those things, my friend, are not funny.

 

[FineLinen]

I agree, "I think your views are funny" is not an argument at all - but what is? Having been exposed to both sides of the question in my Christian walk, I studied the KJV for two years. What I found in regard to "hell" - a word not found in Hebrew or Greek, was biased translation, like this:

"judgment" was rendered as "condemnation"

"condemnation" was rendered as "damnation"

"sheol" was rendered as "hell"

"hades" was rendered as "hell"

"gehenna" was rendered as "hell"

and

"tartaros" was rendered as "hell".

Those things, my friend, are not funny.

 

[FineLinen]

 

[aiki]

I agree, "I think your views are funny" is not an argument at all - but what is? Having been exposed to both sides of the question in my Christian walk, I studied the KJV for two years. What I found in regard to "hell" - a word not found in Hebrew or Greek, was biased translation, like this:

"judgment" was rendered as "condemnation"

"condemnation" was rendered as "damnation"

"sheol" was rendered as "hell"

"hades" was rendered as "hell"

"gehenna" was rendered as "hell"

and

"tartaros" was rendered as "hell".

Those things, my friend, are not funny.

Am I your friend? I had no idea.

I, too, have looked at the arguments for and against eternal, conscious torment in hell (by which I mean Gehenna). I have studied and discussed the matter fairly regularly now over the span of the last fifteen years in particular. More than ever, I am convinced that the Bible teaches that Gehenna is real and that the unrepentant sinners who are consigned there do not cease ever to suffer its torments. I wrote a blog article some time ago that explains my views:

In Defense Of The Doctrine Of Eternal, Conscious Torment In Hell. | Christian Forums

 

[FineLinen]

Am I your friend? I had no idea.

I, too, have looked at the arguments for and against eternal, conscious torment in hell (by which I mean Gehenna). I have studied and discussed the matter fairly regularly now over the span of the last fifteen years in particular. More than ever, I am convinced that the Bible teaches that Gehenna is real and that the unrepentant sinners who are consigned there do not cease ever to suffer its torments. I wrote a blog article some time ago that explains my views:

In Defense Of The Doctrine Of Eternal, Conscious Torment In Hell. | Christian Forums

Dear Aiki: If you think for a nano-second the Father of all fathers torments for endless ages His broken creatures, you need to study for another 15 years and sit in His Fiery Presence while you do it!

 

[JacksBratt]

Why did God create a place like hell to put "damned souls and spirits" in it? Isnt it more merciful to control/alt/delete those souls from creation instead of punishing them and making them suffer forever?

God did not create hell for us. It was created for the fallen angels.

We, on the other hand have a choice... choose to accept Christ and spend eternity with Him.. or Choose to reject Him. Without Christ's pardon we are unrighteous and nothing unrighteous can exist in the presence of God.

Hell, in it's most basic sense is separation from God. If you don't except Him, don't believe in Him, don't want to acknowledge Him... why would you want to end up in eternity with Him?

God does not send you to hell. You choose not to go to heaven... Only those that choose Heaven and want to go there, will go there.

 

[devin553344]

Why did God create a place like hell to put "damned souls and spirits" in it? Isnt it more merciful to control/alt/delete those souls from creation instead of punishing them and making them suffer forever?

There's just something about watching people that torture you in hell that's relieving?

 

[FineLinen]

With all earnestness our choice lies between accepting the victory of Christ or of evil, and between these alternatives only.

Escape from this dilemma there is none. It avails nothing to diminish, as many now teach, the number of the lost; or to assert that they will be finally annihilated. All such modifications leave quite untouched the central difficulty of the popular creed - the triumph of evil. Sin for ever present with its taint, even in a single instance, is sin triumphant. Sin, which God has been unable to remove (and has had no resource but to annihilate the sinner) is sin triumphant and death victorious.

Let Us Still Punish Forever

How strange, too, is the delusion, often advocated, that all real objections to the traditional creed are met, if the grosser forms of teaching it are abandoned. This means, I presume, "let us still punish for ever, though all chance of amendment is over. But do not shock the mass of men, do not mention a literal fire: that is to go too far; retain the agony, but be careful to apply the suffering to the highest part - to the spiritual nature. Rack the spirit with endless woe, and remorse; hand over to the devil for ever one formed in God's Image, one for whom the Son of God died; consign man's spirit to endless evil, it lasts only FOR EVER AND EVER! Who can be so unreasonable as to murmur?"

Men's minds must be deeply drugged by prejudice, and the power of reasoning partly paralyzed, when such pleas are advanced; or when they fancy that, by diminishing the area of damnation they elude all objections to endless evil. As though you could solve moral questions by process of arithmetic, or annul the devil's victory by diminishing the number of his victims. So long as one soul for whom Christ died remains in the devil's grip for ever, so long and so far, is the devil victor. Nothing can by a hair's breadth alter that fact.

-Christ Triumphant-

 

[aiki]

Dear Aiki: If you think for a nano-second the Father of all fathers torments for endless ages His broken creatures, you need to study for another 15 years and sit in His Fiery Presence while you do it!

*Sigh* Is there some actual argument you want to offer in refutation of mine? This oblique ad hominem in which you engage here doesn't really do anything to dissolve my view or to advance yours.

 

[FineLinen]

*Sigh* Is there some actual argument you want to offer in refutation of mine? This oblique ad hominem in which you engage here doesn't really do anything to dissolve my view or to advance yours.

Dear Aiki: Where would you like to start? Perhaps with ta panta? Where sighing one would you like to start?

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the...

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, "in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming."

It is not in the limited sense of "nearly all", "pavnte" minus "ta

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix "re" means back again, again, anew--and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

 

[marineimaging]

Dear Marine: Do you really believe the Lord is placing the destiny of a broken lost sinner in his own wee will?

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the...

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

Romans 11:36=

ta pavnte/ ta panta, "in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming."

It is not in the limited sense of "nearly all", "pavnte" minus "ta

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix "re" means back again, again, anew--and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;.... down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

Yes, I really believe it is in our hands to decide. It is in His hands to bless us and forgive us.

 

[corinth77777]

Why did God create a place like hell to put "damned souls and spirits" in it? Isnt it more merciful to control/alt/delete those souls from creation instead of punishing them and making them suffer forever?

I never really learned about Hell and what it is for myself. But what I was told...If you were bad you would go there and burn forever and ever. Sometimes we need to read for ourselves....