2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[BNR32FAN]

Actually, no unbeliever will be allowed to enter heaven.

But i proved that the 2 phrases are equivalent and mean the same thing. Believers who are guilty of the lifestyles listed will have no inheritance (reward) in heaven.

It appears that you STILL do not believe what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life.

Why is that? What do you know that He doesn't?

No you didn’t prove anything you simply claim it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is truly sad they don't. And It is not FreeGrace's ideas, It's the Lord Jesus Christ and His WAY.

It should give you great pause that the majority believe as you do......Because the Lord Jesus Christ say's FEW find it. Faith alone in Christ alone. Very narrow. One way. No exceptions.
Acts 16:31

Matt 7:14~~New American Standard Bible
"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Yes few people are Christians to begin with. Even fewer have the correct (Orthodox) beliefs.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Yes few people are Christians to begin with.

Is this not a sad scenario for you? It seems not. Based on all your post's, you should be giving the 3000 page's of do's and don'ts, the exact works and deeds, the exact commandments that cannot and can be bent a bit, the percentage of His ways we need to follow, and the list goes on and on.

Even fewer have the correct (Orthodox) beliefs.

Sad but true. Most believers have not a clue how to FELLOWSHIP correctly........seems by your responses, the orthodox, smorshadox church didn't know either.

 

[LightLoveHope]

The above shows one thing, only God knows who are truly His.

What many miss because they are spending all the time thinking about ideas, when this is about an eternal relationship, where the child of God is brought from a sinner to a saint, and becomes alive as they walk with Jesus.

The principles are quite simple, because it is to become like a child and follow His leading through the Spirit. A remarkable number of people will be there at the last trumpet, because He chooses from His sowing of the seed, His word, and the harvest will be eternal.

The real question is are we listening and following.
As Jesus says, it is in the quiet room, in the hidden place it is known and proven.

What the apostles observed was the Holy Spirit fell on the gentiles so they were brought into the people of God. If you have the Spirit and walk in the Spirit you have life, Amen

The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Galatians 6:8

So let us sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life, Amen

 

[LightLoveHope]

The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Galatians 6:8

The above verse again emphasises so much. We can claim to have faith, the believe the impossible yet if we sow to the sinful nature we reap judgement, and if we sow to the Spirit, we reap eternal life.

This implies that just having faith, is not the deciding factor but our walk transforms us into the mature Child of God He desires, Amen.

 

[LightLoveHope]

But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:20-22

Paul is very clear. We can claim we have achieved everything, yet if we fall into unbelief we will be cut off.

This has never been about forcing people into the Kingdom by intimidation, but in recognising how different we are from the Lord, and how much care needs to be taken when walking in love.

When you go climbing on rock, you have ropes and people to hold you in case you fall. Just because there are ropes and care is taken, if you take off the ropes and jump you will die.

So in Christ, he provides the security and the way, but ignore it, and all the promises and security will mean nothing. It comes down to we are given the gift of becoming the people of light, but this is only fulfilled by walking in it.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Could you define what you think "love" means in the Bible?

I share that the cross is our life, is our love, is our salvation.
To see Jesus dying is the thing that breaks us, to know His gift, it takes away our pride, our belief we have value in ourselves, and says, here is love, here is the Lord, here is the God you should worship, for He is above all, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the lamb who was slain, who purchased for himself a people, Holy, righteous, blameless, an eternal inheritence that will know no end.

In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!"
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Rev 5:12-13

It strikes me after so many days sharing what salvation, walking in the Spirit, love, the heart cleansed and purified, communion, becoming a Child of the living God, you still ask about love, these words of God just bounce off like rain off a Ducks back.

It is because words of life rock us to our core, echo into eternity, know no end, but for the lost are just ideas like a passing film that someone else is involved in. So you define what you are not so much by your beliefs in your head, but what speaks to your heart.

And what speaks to your heart is simply a promise. And if this understanding of this one promise is empty, what then? Are you prepared to risk all because one sentence for you means you are safe, when everything else testifies it is more complex and difficult than this. Put simply the bible is one whole, yet in a lifetime no man can fully comprehend it. If God needed to give this to us to help us begin to know Him, this walk is eternal, and probably infinite in what there is still left to discover and walk in. Praise the Lord, Amen.

 

[LightLoveHope]

But the OSNAS ilk (that's your crowd) claims that if a believer ceases to believe, they will be condemned. And all without ANY verse that says that.

Galatians 6:8 and Rom 11:20-22 are pretty clear cut.

"Free" the problem is if you harden your heart and believe your interpretation is the interpretation and to open to another view is to listen to satan, you will be a prisoner of whatever comes first.

The truth is to be a child of God, to walk in the Kingdom, many things have to be weighed and worked through and there is not a definitive answer.

Why did Jesus talk to Elijah and Moses on the mountain of configuration? Because this has always been an eternal debate. Why did Moses talk with God about what to do with Israel? Because things in love are a balance of options and approaches.

If one way of taking a verse locks you solidly into not dealing with sin, or letting people believe God accepts the rebellious and will not judge them, then you declare what is truly in your heart. Everything is a test of what is truly sown within, and what the fruit is.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Actually, no unbeliever will be allowed to enter heaven.

But i proved that the 2 phrases are equivalent and mean the same thing. Believers who are guilty of the lifestyles listed will have no inheritance (reward) in heaven.

It appears that you STILL do not believe what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life.

Why is that? What do you know that He doesn't?

When I met the eternally secure no matter what group, I was confused as to what they really believed.
It sounded at first sound and true.

Except when they used double speak.
An unbeliever is only an unbeliever if at no time in their life they were not a believer.

The magic ticket idea, forced conversion into a loving, caring individual who walks perfectly, and is acceptable to God in heaven is this theology. It is simply a denial of everything God stands for and preaches but is the fruit of compromise and defeat, followed by desperation and clinging on to God will not truly judge because of unrepentant sin in someones life.

The lie clung to is the heart cannot be cleansed, and emotions are not who we really are.
But we are our emotional history, it steers our words, actions and ideas.
It is this the Holy Spirit ministers to and changes, it is this that enters into heaven.
If our emotional history is conflicted and about to collapse because of contradictions that
if resolved will just result in a mess, there is nothing left but destruction.

Maybe these believers believe another individual enters heaven, rather than themselves?
Because if one ends up ruling out everything one is from heaven then there is no salvation,
no eternity, only emptiness.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I proposed a test, about when we share about Jesus and hear people share His love does our hearts sing and rejoice. If the answer is yes, then we know Him.

I have met many different types of believers, and I love their enthusiasm for the King.
But at the end if their ideas do not lead to the Holy Spirit indwelling a repentant, born again believer, they actually have nothing.

Because as a fellowship is always about the walk of grace, fellowship and transformation, sowing to the Spirit. And if sharing in CF has helped me learn this, scripture is full of encouraging love in our hearts flowing out to all we meet. Amen.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No you didn’t prove anything you simply claim it.

Easy to say when one doesn't bother to read the verses that say EXACTLY what I believe.

What I claim I prove from Scripture by quoting verses that say what I claim.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Galatians 6:8

So let us sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life, Amen

I would be interested in your understanding of the meaning of this verse. What "sowing to the Spirit" means and what "reaping eternal life" means.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked:
"Could you define what you think "love" means in the Bible?"

I share that the cross is our life, is our love, is our salvation.
To see Jesus dying is the thing that breaks us, to know His gift, it takes away our pride, our belief we have value in ourselves, and says, here is love, here is the Lord, here is the God you should worship, for He is above all, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the lamb who was slain, who purchased for himself a people, Holy, righteous, blameless, an eternal inheritence that will know no end.

In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!"
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Rev 5:12-13

I do not see any definition of what "love" means. I asked for a definition, not a sermon.

It strikes me after so many days sharing what salvation, walking in the Spirit, love, the heart cleansed and purified, communion, becoming a Child of the living God, you still ask about love, these words of God just bounce off like rain off a Ducks back.

And you STILL haven't provided an explanation of HOW to walk in the Spirit.

I guess you're not so much into definitions and explanations.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"But the OSNAS ilk (that's your crowd) claims that if a believer ceases to believe, they will be condemned. And all without ANY verse that says that."

Galatians 6:8 and Rom 11:20-22 are pretty clear cut.

What does that mean? That they will be condemned???

If so, then please QUIT claiming that you believe in eternal security. Your security is clearly attached to a particular lifestyle, not on faith in Christ.

"Free" the problem is if you harden your heart and believe your interpretation is the interpretation and to open to another view is to listen to satan, you will be a prisoner of whatever comes first.

If I am guilty of being a "prisoner" to anything, I am a prisoner of the Lord Jesus Christ, and what He SAYS. ALL of what He says, unlike yourself.

You've let your emotions get the better of you and your ideas swing wildly from side to side.

The truth is to be a child of God, to walk in the Kingdom, many things have to be weighed and worked through and there is not a definitive answer.

This is disgusting. The truth is CLEARLY STATED in Scripture. That means the Bible gives us CLEAR DEFINITIVE ANSWERS to the questions of how to be saved, how to grow up spiritually, etc. None of which you have been able to explain or define.

Why did Jesus talk to Elijah and Moses on the mountain of configuration?

The Bible say why. No one can answer that.

Because this has always been an eternal debate.

That's neither an answer nor an explanation.

If one way of taking a verse locks you solidly into not dealing with sin

Why do you continue in your very erroneous judgments of what I don't deal with? What's your problem?

From all your emotional posts, it seems to me that you don't know how to deal with sin. Sin isn't dealt with from emotions, but the devil sure would like every believer to think so.

Sin is dealt with by what Scripture SAYS. 1 John 1:9. Read it and get back to me about what you may have learned.

 

[JLB777]

How about at least a little bit of honesty here? I have responded to your question, and EVERY time you've asked it. And I have proven WHY your question is bogus.

Please refer to the post where you have answered my question.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Based on these words of the Lord Jesus -


Do you believe a person who is in Christ, then is removed from Christ, still has eternal life?


Here let me help you, by going first.


No. A person who is removed from Christ, no longer has eternal life.


Now you try.


The answer is either yes or no.




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Paul answers you JLB. Paul says these believers are removed from Him. And still calls them brothers.

So, removed from him CANNOT be your false theory of loss of salvation.

So your answer is yes?

A person who is removed from Christ still has eternal life.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

When I met the eternally secure no matter what group, I was confused as to what they really believed.

Here we go again, all those "others" you seem to like to bring up and talk about.

It sounded at first sound and true.

Since John 10:28 is so clear about eternal security, your statement here highly suggests that you don't really believe what Jesus said.

Except when they used double speak.
An unbeliever is only an unbeliever if at no time in their life they were not a believer.

How does your "claim" ring true? Just because you "feel" it in your heart? Just because you say it so sincerely? Aren't you aware that people can be sincerely wrong?

This very thread, along with John 3:18 refutes your false claim about "double speak".

When the Bible describes people as unbelievers, they mean those who NEVER BELIEVED. And 2 Thess 2:12 and John 3:18 proves that.

WHEN a person believes, they BECOME a child of God. A new creation.

Are you not aware that the Bible NEVER EVER speaks of any child of God becoming an un-child, or a new creation reverting back into an old creation.

But that is exactly what you are suggesting. And all without any Scripture to support your claim.

 

[JLB777]

the exact commandments that cannot and can be bent a bit, the percentage of His ways we need to follow, and the list goes on and on.

Here’s one.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Do you believe a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life remaining in him?



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

I proposed a test, about when we share about Jesus and hear people share His love does our hearts sing and rejoice. If the answer is yes, then we know Him.

I have met many different types of believers, and I love their enthusiasm for the King.
But at the end if their ideas do not lead to the Holy Spirit indwelling a repentant, born again believer, they actually have nothing.

Are you actually suggesting that if a believer who witnesses to someone and they don't believe on the spot, then the believer who witnessed really isn't a believer? Because

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"How about at least a little bit of honesty here? I have responded to your question, and EVERY time you've asked it. And I have proven WHY your question is bogus."

Please refer to the post where you have answered my question.

I see that you have not abandoned your dishonesty. I've been explaining John 15 to you in many threads over the years. But you just refuse to acknowledge that.

Based on these words of the Lord Jesus -

Do you believe a person who is in Christ, then is removed from Christ, still has eternal life?

Once again, Scripture is clear from Eph 1;13,14 that once sealed with the Holy Spirit, NO ONE can be "removed from Christ".

So your question is bogus.

But, let me ask you a question:

Have you stopped beating your wife yet? A simple yes or no answer will suffice.

Here let me help you, by going first.

I responded to your bogus question. Now answer mine.

No. A person who is removed from Christ, no longer has eternal life.

Your premise is bogus, which requires that you reject Eph 1:13,14.

The answer is either yes or no.

OK, have you stopped beating your wife yet?