If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

[corinth77777]

I guess a good thread is does God protect His people when they sin?

Best to look at old testament scriptures too.

There are a couple of ways I see born of water ..one in reference to the word, and the other coming through you mother's womb.

First, For water has been in reference to the word,
Second, we know the water breaks before a child is delivered...what's the purpose of water breaking?

I was never taught water Baptism saves you!
And not sure of the purpose today...

For as Dallas Willard mentions...Emmerse[baptize] in the trinitarian presence or rather, name of the father, son, and Holy Ghost....has to do with manking disciples....learners...

How can you immerse someone in the trinitarian presence unless they are first made a disciple.

So go teach them all that I have commanded you....
Maybe that is the way....these are my thoughts, if they believe who Jesus is and the message of the father,
Repent and believe the Gospel, if they believe the message that Jesus died and rose, live out that belief as an over commer, and you will receive the Holy Ghost.

What did Jesus do on earth? He believed His father and looked to Him, He walked in His father's will, He died to himself, took up His cross, and died physically for the needs of the world...and last He resurrected....[He lives] so then if we are in Him and do the same...I contend we will be made alive by His living Spirit. [Abundance of life] . Just my thoughts

 

[corinth77777]

I guess a good thread is does God protect His people when they sin?

Best to look at old testament scriptures too.

There are a couple of ways I see born of water ..one in reference to the word, and the other coming through you mother's womb.

First, For water has been in reference to the word,
Second, we know the water breaks before a child is delivered...what's the purpose of water breaking?

I was never taught water Baptism saves you!
And not sure of the purpose today...

For as Dallas Willard mentions...Emmerse[baptize] in the trinitarian presence or rather, name of the father, son, and Holy Ghost....has to do with manking disciples....learners...

How can you immerse someone in the trinitarian presence unless they are first made a disciple.

So go teach them all that I have commanded you....
Maybe that is the way....these are my thoughts, if they believe who Jesus is and the message of the father,
Repent and believe the Gospel, if they believe the message that Jesus died and rose, live out that belief as an over commer, and you will receive the Holy Ghost.

What did Jesus do on earth? He believed His father and looked to Him, He walked in His father's will, He died to himself, took up His cross, and died physically for the needs of the world...and last He resurrected....[He lives] so then if we are in Him and do the same...I contend we will be made alive by His living Spirit. [Abundance of life] . Just my thoughts

But even though I may not know this the way I want to know it....As 2 + 2 =4
So does eternal life=a relationship with God.
How do we relate with God? I believe by doing what his son did. For if we do what His son did wouldn't we be connected especially in doing His will. Isn't Jesus the first born of the living?

If we want a relationship with our spouses or girl friend or boyfriend don't we share in thing they want to do?

 

[DamianWarS]

Then Philip should have demanded that the Eunuch be baptized when Philip saw the water. But that didn't happen; that's not how the story goes. The Eunuch asked if it would be reasonable to get baptized right then. That doesn't make sense. Then we have the same general picture with Cornelius and Peter, for after the Holy Spirit fell upon the Gentiles, Peter asked the Jews if they objected to water baptism. Again, that is an odd request if water is the final key. Peter wouldn't have asked, he would have demanded....and this AFTER the Holy Spirit was already given, evident by the text.

That's what the text says and it confirms Mark 1:8. All of scripture regarding water baptism has to pass through Mark 1:8.

I'm not so sure you understand my point. baptism is the declaration of salvation it's not the launch of salvation. It should be a response of salvation and encouraged but not demanded as know one knows the heart and baptism doesn't magically change it (as you well know).

Phillip didn't walk the eunuch through the sinner's prayer nor did he confirm with him his understanding of faith in Christ to judge if it is correct or not. Philip simply "opened his mouth" and the message he spoke prompted the eunuch's desire to be baptised. Salvation is a journey not a single moment and I think it would be irresponsible to read this event as the moment of salvation but rather the process of salvation. The eunuch was already there, he just needed someone to help his understanding and these supernatural experience are common where the gospel is not known.

here is an account of a Muslim born believer's experience with Christ.

"One night the only food my wife and I had was a small portion of macaroni. My wife prepared it very nicely. Then one of her friends knocked on the door. I told myself, The macaroni is not sufficient for even the two of us, so how will it be enough for three of us? But because we have no other custom, we opened the door, and she came in to eat with us.

While we were eating, the macaroni started to multiply; it became full in the bowl. I suspected that something was wrong with my eyes, so I started rubbing them. I thought maybe my wife hid some macaroni under the small table, so I checked, but there was nothing. My wife and I looked at each other, but because the guest was there we said nothing.

Afterward I lay down on the bed, and as I slept, Isa came to me and asked me, "Do you know who multiplied the macaroni?" I said, "I don't know." He said, "I am Isa al Masih [Jesus, the Messiah]. If you follow me, not only the macaroni but your life will be multiplied."​

after this experience this man begin to search for Christ and grew in faith over a few years time, a journey that started with him reading the Quran. He now leads a movement and has has lead thousands to Christ. When did this man receive salvation? That's not something I can answer but I can say his journey of salvation started when Christ said "follow me" and he responded.

In a similar way when did the disciples receive salvation? I think that's the wrong question to ask and it misses the point but we do know when they started to follow Jesus.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Thank you for your response, I hear what you're saying. Do you agree with the below verse that I've pasted?

[Phl 2:13 NIV] 13 "....for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."

Baptism saves us, but not water baptism. Thecsaving baptism is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh (or an outward washing) but the answer of a good conscience by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Peter 3:21.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.1 Corinthians. 12:13. The baptism into Christ through faith saves not water baptism. This saving baptism is we’re we are crucified with Christ buried with him and risen with him through faith.

This saving baptism is connected to Christ resurrection and our being risen with him. This is an inward work in the heart. We first must have a broken spirit and humble and contrite heart before the seed is planted in our heart. The seed or word of God that is sown, first word breaks up the ground of our heart and is like a fire and a hammer that breaks up the rocky part of our heart this is we're the word is as a light that reproves all sin. Then if we receive him (Christ the seed, and word of God, the true Light that lighters every man that comets into the world) then he gives us power to become the sons of God. Then Christ dwells (abides) in our heart by faith.

Then at this point God dwells in us working in us to make us perfect unto every good work (Hebrews 13:20,21). And as we abide in him by faith we overcome the world.

If we yield to the flesh however we die and walk in darkness and need to repent. But if we yield to the Spirit and continue in His word we live and then through the Spirit we mortify the deeds of the body.

All must examine themselves if they are in the faith if they have been truly baptized into Christ, immersed in Himane if Christvis formed in them.

Water baptism was under the old covenant with the law and it was for Israel at that time. John baptised (past tense) with water but yecshall be baptised eith the Holy Ghost (Acts 1).

And in Acts we see the Jewish believers still in transition or reformation from the old to the new (Hebrews 9). These diverse washings(baptisms) and carnal ordinances were imposed in them until the time of reformation. We also see that the Jewish believers were still going to the temple all through Acts and sacrificing animals and keeping the law and the customs of the old covenant for a long time Acts 21.

But the Gentiles did not need to be brought under the old covenant that was fading away and ready to vanish (Hebrews 8:13.) then try to bring them out of it again. Paul said he was the apostle to the Gentiles and by this ministry he could say that Christ sent him not to baptised [with eater] but to preach the gospel (2 Cor 1.) and he defines the saving gospel again in 1 Cor 15:1-5. Notice that there is no water baptism added to the gospel in any way for salvation. And no circumcision, no mosaic law, no sabbath, no works iof man at all.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

First comes faith in Christ, then true repentance then baptism by both water and spirit. Both before and after baptism you must say in your heart that you do not desire to sin. That doesn't mean you can't sin only that you truly do not wish to sin anymore. Each time you sin after this point you are exceedingly sorrowful and repent to the Lord begging forgiveness ,eventually out of Love for God you stop sinning for the most part, but none of us can be completely free from sin.

So the reason you went out and immediately sinned after water baptism is because you lacked the faith love and repentance required before being baptized by water. Water baptism is only one of the requirements to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Baptism doesn't "save". It makes us eligible for salvation, but we are still free to refuse salvation.

 

[fat wee robin]

How is it possible to ask other christians to be respectful, but then disrespect the same people in the same post? Can't wrap my mind around that.

But who taught you that water baptism saves? Usually, there are classes before taking baptism that would help you understand the steps that you were taking and its significance, and it requires you to first already be saved. At least for my church. Maybe that didn't happen for you, but its unfair to paint such a broad stroke from only your experience.

Disagree , it is you who is being disrespectful .

 

[Oldmantook]

I hear what you're saying, but I don't find any teaching that states that water baptism is a requirement for eternal life. Mark 1:8 talks about the new baptism, which is not of water (John the Baptist way), but a new baptism where we are immersed into Christ, The Holy Spirit, God. This baptism could be done in the Holocaust camps, in the desert or in any prison where there is no dunking tank. Being immersed into the Spirit can be done any time, any where. God is reasonable and has made salvation as such. Mark 1:8 defines the new "baptism".

47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. Acts 10:47-48

 

[Oldmantook]

Yes, because this possibility remains so long as there is a person who can choose between being saved, on one hand, or sinning on the other hand.

Indeed; only believers have the choice whether to sin or not sin. Unbelievers have no such choice as they are not regenerated by the Spirit and remain in sin. That is why Paul wrote in Rom 8:13 that IF you (brethren) live according to the flesh, you will die...."

 

[Frost27]

There is absolutely no doubt out it. My R12-2 transformation has come completely apart from any physical church. I could recite scripture, but pagans can do that. I couldn't believe that I could now read the bible and it actually made sense....it became real. I took a chance and decided to begin reading the bible not as the inspired word of god, but to read it as a historical record....and that changed my life before I finished the first project, which was to read Paul's letters in chronological order (pick one, there are a couple out there), starting out with his first appearance as Saul in Acts chapter 7. So after my reception of God's indescribable Power in the Desert on the way home from saving my friends life, that's when I was finally able to read the bible in the way that only the Spirit can allow you to read it. It's unbelievable, and I have felt robbed for not being able to see this knowledge made evident in my obedience, but realized that I had to suffer so that I could learn what I need to learn so that I can lead others out of their suffering.

And all this took place while I was living a sinful life. So God began working miracles in me as well as getting things done through me....I deeply realized that God truly uses sinners 100% of the time. That was huge! I began to get over myself that day, and began to give myself a break. I found that in doing this, I could stand tall to myself, others and to God even in my errors. I learned that we can stand a face all things, that I'm not different from anyone else. We're all amazing and we're all awful.

I literally see everything new. In fact, I cannot remember what it was like to be my former self. My thinking and living has changed completely. I can't imagine being so lost as I was, but didn't have a clue....just like everyone else I've ever met. I've never met a single person that's had a R12-2 transformation....think about that for a few minutes. I have about 150 years of Christian leadership in my family, yet none of them spoke of R12-2. Wow, what a terrible problem "Christianity" has right now.

Thank you, thank you for your comment! It was almost surreal reading your words, it was as if I myself had written that. How you describe your personal experience is very very similar to my own. In fact, I got “goose bumps” while reading; the fact you chose to focus on ROMANS 12:2 in relation to this topic, because this specific scripture, Romans 12:2 made a tremendous impact on me when I read it the 1st time. Romans 12:2 is one the top verses that I frequently like to refer back to & go over to keep me on the right path & strong in my faith, mission, & purpose. Awesome post by you & very Helpful!

 

[Andy centek]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to porn both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

 

[Andy centek]

BSOCS--Blessings

Remarkable truth for a change! You are exactly correct in what you stated, in my opinion. Churches today are full of religion and lack sadly in spiritual truth: My opinion. That is why I no longer am able to attend one.
This is not to say however that there may not be a very descent ones out there somewhere. How many however follow the teachings of the apostle Paul whom Jesus Christ gave to inform the Gentile world of His truth?
Today there are Denominations on top of Denominations teaching falseness. The word Denominations has a hidden message in itself: Devils Set On Men, and, Demons set on nations. How interesting is this hidden message to the peoples.

Andy Centek

 

[LoveGodsWord]

THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOSPEL THAT SAVES US AND IT IS EVERLASTING

WHAT IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL?

REVELATION 14:6, And I saw another angel fly in midheaven, having the EVERLASTING GOSPEL [εὐαγγέλιον meaning good news] to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,

NOTE: The GREEK Word used here G2098 εὐαγγέλιον means simply good news; So the first angels message is preaching the everlasting GOOD NEWS to all people of the earth.

WHAT DOES THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL REPRESENT?

1 PETER 1:25, But THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER [EVERLASTING WORD OF GOD]. And this is the word which by the GOSPEL [GOOD NEWS] is preached unto you.

LUKE 21:33, Heaven and earth shall pass away: BUT MY WORDS SHALL NOT PASS AWAY [EVERLASTING WORD OF GOD].

ISAIAH 40:8, The grass withers, the flower fades, But THE WORD OF OUR GOD STANDS FOREVER [GOD’S WORD IS EVERLASTING].

JOHN 17:17, SANCTIFY THEM THROUGH THE TRUTH, YOUR WORD IS TRUTH [GOD’S WORD IS TRUTH AND WE ARE SAVED BY IT – Good news indeed].

MATTHEW 4:4 Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD [LIFE FROM THE WORD OF GOD]

JOHN 1:1-4; 14
[1], In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD.

[2], The same was in the beginning with God.

[3], All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

[4], In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

[14], And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

NOTE: JESUS is the living WORD OF GOD.

[12], But as many as received him [THE WORD OF GOD], to them gave he power to become the children of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME [MATTHEW 1:21, And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.]

NOTE: v12 and MATTHEW 1:21. JOHN 1:12 As many as received him [THE WORD OF GOD] to them he gave POWER to become the children of GOD. His name is JESUS [THE WORD OF GOD] because he [THE WORD OF GOD] will save all who receive him [BELIEVE AND FOLLOW THE WORD OF GOD]

1 PETER 1:22-23,

[22], Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto sincere love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:

[23], BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED BUT OF INCORUPTIBLE, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and ABIDES FOREVER [EVERLASTING].

LUKE 8:11, NOW THIS IS THE PARABLE; THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD.

1 JOHN 3:9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; FOR HIS SEED REMAINS IN HIM: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 JOHN 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, EVEN OUR FAITH [in the WORD OF GOD; the SEED must remain in us through FAITH].

PSALMS 119:11, YOUR WORD HAVE A HID IN MY HEART, THAT I MIGHT NOT SIN AGAINST YOU [in the WORD OF GOD; the SEED must remain in us through FAITH].

And this is the victory that overcomes the world, EVEN OUR FAITH in God’s WORD that is IN US.

JOHN 15:4-5,
[4] ABIDE IN ME AND I IN YOU [THE WORD OF GOD]. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me. [5] I am the vine, you are the branches: He that stays in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for WITHOUT ME [THE WORD OF GOD] YOU CAN DO NOTHING. [6], If a man abides not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [7], IF YOU ABIDE IN ME [THE LIVING WORD OF GOD] AND MY WORDS ABIDE IN YOU abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you. [8], Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples. [9], As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you: continue you in my love. [10], IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

NOTE: We cannot bear the fruit of obedience unless God’s WORD abides in us as we BELIEVE and follow him who calls us in love to love.

..............

CONCLUSION: WHAT IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL OF REVELATION 14:6?

The EVERLASTING Gospel is JESUS <Jesus means Savior; John 1:29> and JESUS is THE WORD OF GOD (John 1:1-14; 17:17; 14:6). THE WORD OF GOD is the GOSPEL BECAUSE BY FAITH IT IS OUR SAVIOR and this the IS GOOD NEWS to those who BELIEVE. (John 1:1-14; John 1:29; John 17:17; 14:6; Matthew 4:4) ALL OF GOD’S WORD IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL. It is the EVERLASTING GOSPEL because JESUS AND HIS WORD is EVERLASTING.

ALL THE WORD OF GOD IS THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL [GOOD NEWS].

God bless

 

[Alithis]

This is cool. You're the first to actually teach this doctrine in this thread. You wrote that baptism actually saves us, but only after repentance. Ok, I hear you. So if this is true, let's test it. Here is my test: if your teaching is true, can a person be saved in the middle of the desert where there is no water to be found?

{the three basic areas of response to the gospel repentance water baptism and receiving the holy spirit are thus the three MOST attacked and maligned and undermined by the adversary]

in fair response to your question of the man in the desert with no water .....
yes of course he can be saved -- Jesus is the saviour. HE saves us . salvation is a "way" not only an instant . the WAY is embarked on when a person first Believes and so repents (no one who sincerely believes will not repent because they will be very afraid of whats coming to them if they do not -people who say they believe but they don't obey the lord Jesus do not believe at all and/or are fully into rebellion .

Since repenting is turning to go GODS way a person will be led of God at soonest opportunity to be water baptised .God will never contradict himself AND he has said to do it this way for very very good reason and effect as he preforms a number of supernatural tasks through us obeying him in it .
and since God does not look on the outer appearance but upon the heart -he fully knows the intent of the heart ...

example -did Abraham actually obey God and slay Isaac ? no -yet god considered him to be fully obedient in faith . why ? because he knew the intent of Abraham's heart was to fully obey.
so god knows the person in the desert whose heart has truly repented to follow him WILL obey him in water baptism all things at soonest opportunity as soon as he learns of the directive to do so .
ie- here is water what hinders me from being baptised ... if in the desert where is water ? so the persons repentant heart will say .. where is water that i may be baptised . and should he die before that moment he will certainly be saved by the saving one whose name is Jesus . but if he does not die before doing so his love for God will cause him to whole heartedly obey as soon as he can .

during the Anabaptist murders by the catholics & lutherans a man was arrested for the church violation of having communion at home (yes they were wicked those churches ) . they asked him if he had been baptised(by immersion) and if they released him would he go and do so.. as that was a crime punishable by death by the church (talk about wolves in sheeps clothes ), the man KNOWING death faced him ..answered NO he had not been and that was a great regret as he longed to folow his lord in all things .
he was not released and later beheaded by the church .- this intent of the heart certainly saved him through baptism without the physical act carried out . just as the thief on the cross . we must not forget that the Lord Jesus said .. so that you may KNOW the son of man had power to forgive sin ..

so for the rest of us not facing imminent death ( though in truth we all are ) - repentance is away from rebellion and unto obedience -thus NO repentant person would ever question or refuse to obey our lord JESUS in water baptism .

-----

again i could and should write so much more as water baptism is so much more then people have been led to believe and the bible says so much about it as it is one of the foundations of the temple of god he builds for himself not built by mans hands .because the enemies religions have attacked this most basic obedience as the enemy knows the POWER of it .

repent - and because the person has -- BE baptised for the washing away (remittance ) of sin.... and you WILL (its god will that you do ) receive the Holy Spirit (to receive involves also your own will as no covenant is one sided but involves two parties always )

 

[Alithis]

How is it possible to ask other christians to be respectful, but then disrespect the same people in the same post? Can't wrap my mind around that.

But who taught you that water baptism saves? Usually, there are classes before taking baptism that would help you understand the steps that you were taking and its significance, and it requires you to first already be saved. At least for my church. Maybe that didn't happen for you, but its unfair to paint such a broad stroke from only your experience.

its amazing how the apostles on the day of Pentecost did not set up such classes but 3000 were baptised that same day...(such classes are religious mens ways ) but i allow that the jews present understood baptism far more then the gentiles -but water baptism need not be fully understood at the time - but sin and repentance from it MUST be and belief in JESUS who saves must be understood simply and repentance is the acted desire to DO as JESUS says to do -to folow him
this following him is what few do even though they go to church or get baptised- because they lack repentance -they want to be saved AND keep thier sinning which they love to do . JESUS will say -I DO NOT KNOW YOU who work INIQUITY.

what is following Jesus ? we follow him in his obedience to the father ... baptism ... testings .. works ..sacrifices ..death and Resurrection.! still want to follow Jesus ? because if we are not wiling to follow him down the same road he took and eat of the same body and drink of the same cup -- then we cannot be his disciples .

so many are self deceived .

but to ask "who taught you baptism saves ...? the scripture does ... it actually says so . but as iv pointed out in another post ..it is mostly not well understood .

 

[Thess]

For how many years did Mary of Egypt cry out to God from her solitary desert home to fix her? Do you even know? Have you ever even heard of Mary of Egypt, or of her sins and struggles against them? Fairy tales don't involve things that are real, like the sufferings and sacrifices of martyrs, both living martyrs and those who are tortured and killed for their Love of Christ. Do you think it'll be easy for me, when they come to silence the voice of God in me through the destruction of my body? I don't think so. But by the Holy Spirit I'll be able to endure til the end, no matter what they may do to me. I never said being a Christian is easy, I only shared a part of what Scripture teaches about God's grace working in and through us. R12-2 stories are abundant, from what I've experienced, seen, and heard, and they often involve people who were great sinners, like Moses the Black, who was a murderer, adulterer, and robber. I was no better than such a person prior to my conversion. So when you say you've never seen anyone transformed, or that no one has an R12-2 story to tell, I don't understand how you can say this as if you really believe it.

Okie Doke.

 

[Thess]

but to ask "who taught you baptism saves ...? the scripture does ... it actually says so

Amazing, isn't it? That someone would ask who it is that taught me when it seems so clearly taught in scriptures. It's as if those who charge me of such haven't even read God's Word, let alone my own words. Par for the course

 

[Thess]

I guess a good thread is does God protect His people when they sin?

Best to look at old testament scriptures too.

There are a couple of ways I see born of water ..one in reference to the word, and the other coming through you mother's womb.

First, For water has been in reference to the word,
Second, we know the water breaks before a child is delivered...what's the purpose of water breaking?

I was never taught water Baptism saves you!
And not sure of the purpose today...

For as Dallas Willard mentions...Emmerse[baptize] in the trinitarian presence or rather, name of the father, son, and Holy Ghost....has to do with manking disciples....learners...

How can you immerse someone in the trinitarian presence unless they are first made a disciple.

So go teach them all that I have commanded you....
Maybe that is the way....these are my thoughts, if they believe who Jesus is and the message of the father,
Repent and believe the Gospel, if they believe the message that Jesus died and rose, live out that belief as an over commer, and you will receive the Holy Ghost.

What did Jesus do on earth? He believed His father and looked to Him, He walked in His father's will, He died to himself, took up His cross, and died physically for the needs of the world...and last He resurrected....[He lives] so then if we are in Him and do the same...I contend we will be made alive by His living Spirit. [Abundance of life] . Just my thoughts

And those are great thought, Cori. I really appreciate your awesome contribution. The baptism that we're talking about is clearly listen in Mark 1:8, where John discuss the old, weak water baptism and compares it to the new Power baptism into the Holy Spirit. We are no longer immersed into water, for that was the baptism that awaited Christ, through John The Baptist. All baptism verses much pass through Mark 1:8 to be understood, and not the other way around, which is what some folks are attempting to do, and understandably so, for I thought their way myself for decades. I understand this plight and problem.

 

[Thess]

I'm not so sure you understand my point. baptism is the declaration of salvation it's not the launch of salvation. It should be a response of salvation and encouraged but not demanded as know one knows the heart and baptism doesn't magically change it (as you well know).

Phillip didn't walk the eunuch through the sinner's prayer nor did he confirm with him his understanding of faith in Christ to judge if it is correct or not. Philip simply "opened his mouth" and the message he spoke prompted the eunuch's desire to be baptised. Salvation is a journey not a single moment and I think it would be irresponsible to read this event as the moment of salvation but rather the process of salvation. The eunuch was already there, he just needed someone to help his understanding and these supernatural experience are common where the gospel is not known.

here is an account of a Muslim born believer's experience with Christ.

"One night the only food my wife and I had was a small portion of macaroni. My wife prepared it very nicely. Then one of her friends knocked on the door. I told myself, The macaroni is not sufficient for even the two of us, so how will it be enough for three of us? But because we have no other custom, we opened the door, and she came in to eat with us.

While we were eating, the macaroni started to multiply; it became full in the bowl. I suspected that something was wrong with my eyes, so I started rubbing them. I thought maybe my wife hid some macaroni under the small table, so I checked, but there was nothing. My wife and I looked at each other, but because the guest was there we said nothing.

Afterward I lay down on the bed, and as I slept, Isa came to me and asked me, "Do you know who multiplied the macaroni?" I said, "I don't know." He said, "I am Isa al Masih [Jesus, the Messiah]. If you follow me, not only the macaroni but your life will be multiplied."​

after this experience this man begin to search for Christ and grew in faith over a few years time, a journey that started with him reading the Quran. He now leads a movement and has has lead thousands to Christ. When did this man receive salvation? That's not something I can answer but I can say his journey of salvation started when Christ said "follow me" and he responded.

In a similar way when did the disciples receive salvation? I think that's the wrong question to ask and it misses the point but we do know when they started to follow Jesus.

Okie doke. Thanks for the contributions.

 

[salt-n-light]

Disagree , it is you who is being disrespectful .

Point it out then.

Edited:

You know what don’t even bother I said my piece already, anything else Would be throwing away my pearls.Not being dragged in this fiasco today, lol! Y’all have fun.