If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

[FireDragon76]

That is shocking. Don't ever say things like this to someone who has lived with self-hatred brought on by others. You've gone too far, which is what I warned against at the beginning of this thread. Slow down buster.

Well, my point is that isn't a spiritual, but a psychological problem, and it is common to confuse the two, and to over-spiritualize our lives. I did not mean to sound cruel, necessarily, merely to point out that salvation does not make everything in our lives automatically "OK", nor does it make this anything but a sinful world we live in. What it does do is contain our despair with hope.

 

[Thess]

Perhaps you could give the personal Savior some credit. I dont have a church but God is my daily medication. God Helps me by sustaining me one day at a time..

I don't have a church either, because every one that I've stepped in has been apostate. They're fake, destructive and deadly. The "Church" needs reformation and I'm looking for folks that are willing to expose the whole wretched system as it is today.

 

[Thess]

Well, my point is that isn't a spiritual, but a psychological problem

This is unbelievable. I am asking that you discontinue your teaching on this subject.

 

[W2L]

I don't have a church either, because every one that I've stepped in has been apostate. They fake, destructive and deadly. The "Church" needs reformation and I'm looking for folks that are willing to expose the whole wretched system as it is today.

It would take some serious dedication for that.

 

[Thess]

It would take some serious dedication for that.

Serious dedication is what a person does when they seek God with their whole heart, mind, soul and strength.

 

[W2L]

Serious dedication is what a person does when they seek God with their whole heart, mind, soul and strength.

Yes thats true.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

While I agree with you that some who turn to sin or keep sinning after "conversion" were not truly saved to begin with, it does not necessarily entail that all who keep sinning were never saved to begin with. That would be a logical fallacy known as an overgeneralization. That would be like saying since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens therefore lay brown eggs which of course is not true.

John does not say that a person born of God cannot sin. We all sin and no one is without sin according to 1 John 1:8,10. What John actually wrote is that a person born of God does not practice sin. 1 Jn 3:4 states "Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness." 9 "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God."
Thus all Christians still sin on occasion since no one is without sin but not all Christians make a practice of sin/habitual sin.

Those Christians who refuse to live obediently and instead retain habitual sin in their lives choose to live according to their flesh instead of according to the Spirit. The apostle Paul warned those who do so of the consequences of living according to the flesh. In Rom 8:13 he warned the brethren in Rome: "For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." Death here refers to spiritual death because everyone dies physically irrespective of the manner in which we live our lives. Thus IF a believer chooses to live his/her life according to the flesh, he/she will spiritually die.

Anyone who makes a practice of sin is not converted. If a professing believer can choose to live according to the flesh then his conversion is incomplete. This is why the gate to eternal life is narrow, and few there be who find it.

 

[Thess]

Yes thats true.

What compels me is what compelled Paul to rebuild Timothy's confidence in 2nd Timothy. The whole letter is designed to build Timothy as Paul is preparing to be executed relatively soon. Timothy is so afraid of the two false renegade teachers at Ephesus, that he is leaving the unsaved souls in the church at the hands of those who are delivering a false gospel, which is no gospel at all. Eternity is at stake and Timothy has forgotten this as fear takes over his mind. Souls are at stake and the "Church" is the single most fertile grounds to find lost souls. I am saying that nearly every church, today, is disqualified. This does not make me angry, it grieves my soul!

As I go from church to church to find a place where I can find a place to settle down, two churches have embraced the gay lifestyle (don't need to overcome anything, I guess), another labeled my friend and I as "spectacles" which was just unbelievable in itself, and another had server girls in short shorts, serving the communion. Teenage girls, bending over repeatedly in church....show the soft spots of their bottoms. It was unbelievable. Fifteen minutes after the service, someone actually said hello to me. I said, "Wow. Someone finally noticed me." This man who was likely a leader of the church giggled and said, "Awww." I said, "I assumed it's because everyone is still thinking about the teenage legs on the server girls this morning." Within seconds this guy stepped up two inches from my face, put his finger in my chest and began giving me the quiet riot act. I told him to step back. He said, "What?" I told him that he'd "Better take a step back right now."

I'm 51 and have seen a lot of churches. I've played drum in church for two years straight. I've worked at Puget Sound Christian College of the Bible, before it fell due to debauchery of the homosexual variety, amongst other things. I've met leaders of church's and basically had sex with them on the first night of meeting them. The second night, I fully had sex with them, only to wake up the third morning and meet this woman at her church and watch her wave her arms in the air, leading us in pure worship. Sick. My former best friends mother was the Worship Pastor at our church but was sleeping with a young boy in her husbands bed. She got caught; no problem. She kept her job at the church.

It's the same wherever you go and I intend to do something about it.

 

[Thess]

Anyone who makes a practice of sin is not converted. If a professing believer can choose to live according to the flesh then his conversion is incomplete. This is why the gate to eternal life is narrow, and few there be who find it.

It's just that simple to understand. And you're right, heaven won't be crowded. This means that most who think they're saved; they're not.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I don't have a church either, because every one that I've stepped in has been apostate. They're fake, destructive and deadly. The "Church" needs reformation and I'm looking for folks that are willing to expose the whole wretched system as it is today.

Maybe God is guiding you as the scriptures teach most of the Churches will fall away from God's WORD in the last days. We have been discussing this here in the book of REVELATION click me.

God bless

 

[W2L]

What compels me is what compelled Paul to rebuild Timothy's confidence in 2nd Timothy. The whole letter is designed to build Timothy as Paul is preparing to be executed relatively soon. Timothy is so afraid of the two false renegade teachers at Ephesus, that he is leaving the unsaved souls in the church at the hands of those who are delivering a false gospel, which is no gospel at all. Eternity is at stake and Timothy has forgotten this as fear takes over his mind. Souls are at stake and the "Church" is the single most fertile grounds to find lost souls. I am saying that nearly every church, today, is disqualified. This does not make me angry, it grieves my soul!

As I go from church to church to find a place where I can find a place to settle down, two churches have embraced the gay lifestyle (don't need to overcome anything, I guess), another labeled my friend and I as "spectacles" which was just unbelievable in itself, and another had server girls in short shorts, serving the communion. Teenage girls, bending over repeatedly in church....show the soft spots of their bottoms. It was unbelievable. Fifteen minutes after the service, someone actually said hello to me. I said, "Wow. Someone finally noticed me." This man who was likely a leader of the church giggled and said, "Awww." I said, "I assumed it's because everyone is still thinking about the teenage legs on the server girls this morning." Within seconds this guy stepped up two inches from my face, put his finger in my chest and began giving me the quiet riot act. I told him to step back. He said, "What?" I told him that he'd "Better take a step back right now."

I'm 51 and have seen a lot of churches. I've played drum in church for two years straight. I've worked at Puget Sound Christian College of the Bible, before it fell due to debauchery of the homosexual variety, amongst other things. I've met leaders of church's and basically had sex with them on the first night of meeting them. The second night, I fully had sex with them, only to wake up the third morning and meet this woman at her church and watch her wave her arms in the air, leading us in pure worship. Sick. My former best friends mother was sleeping with a young boy in her husbands bed. She got caught; no problem. She kept her job.

It's the same wherever you go and I intend to do something about it.

The world is in need of Jesus.

 

[Oldmantook]

Anyone who makes a practice of sin is not converted. If a professing believer can choose to live according to the flesh then his conversion is incomplete. This is why the gate to eternal life is narrow, and few there be who find it.

Then please explain why Paul sternly warned the brethren in Rom 8:13 that IF they live according to the flesh, they will die? Physical death is not being referred to here because every single person physically dies no matter how they conduct their lives. The notion that the warnings in Scripture apply to the unconverted is ludicrous.

 

[Thess]

Maybe God is guiding you as the scriptures teach most of the Churches will fall away from God's WORD in the last days. We have been discussing this here in the book of REVELATION click me.

God bless

There is absolutely no doubt out it. My R12-2 transformation has come completely apart from any physical church. I could recite scripture, but pagans can do that. I couldn't believe that I could now read the bible and it actually made sense....it became real. I took a chance and decided to begin reading the bible not as the inspired word of god, but to read it as a historical record....and that changed my life before I finished the first project, which was to read Paul's letters in chronological order (pick one, there are a couple out there), starting out with his first appearance as Saul in Acts chapter 7. So after my reception of God's indescribable Power in the Desert on the way home from saving my friends life, that's when I was finally able to read the bible in the way that only the Spirit can allow you to read it. It's unbelievable, and I have felt robbed for not being able to see this knowledge made evident in my obedience, but realized that I had to suffer so that I could learn what I need to learn so that I can lead others out of their suffering.

And all this took place while I was living a sinful life. So God began working miracles in me as well as getting things done through me....I deeply realized that God truly uses sinners 100% of the time. That was huge! I began to get over myself that day, and began to give myself a break. I found that in doing this, I could stand tall to myself, others and to God even in my errors. I learned that we can stand a face all things, that I'm not different from anyone else. We're all amazing and we're all awful.

I literally see everything new. In fact, I cannot remember what it was like to be my former self. My thinking and living has changed completely. I can't imagine being so lost as I was, but didn't have a clue....just like everyone else I've ever met. I've never met a single person that's had a R12-2 transformation....think about that for a few minutes. I have about 150 years of Christian leadership in my family, yet none of them spoke of R12-2. Wow, what a terrible problem "Christianity" has right now.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Then please explain why Paul sternly warned the brethren in Rom 8:13 that IF they live according to the flesh, they will die? Physical death is not being referred to here because every single person physically dies no matter how they conduct their lives. The notion that the warnings in Scripture apply to the unconverted is ludicrous.

There are many church members who may be correctly religious, but they are trusting in the doctrines of their church instead of Christ Himself. These people may be faithful church members but they are not converted to Christ. The false teaching is that conversion happens as soon as a person prays the sinner's prayer, and that it is automatic. But in many so called "conversions" there is no evidence of a transformation from the flesh/world to Christ. The parable of the seed sower, may apply to an unbeliever hearing the Word for the first time, but the other three states apply to those who have "accepted Christ" but two of them fall short of heaven and only one on the good ground sees the gates of heaven open to them. So, statistically, only 1 out of every 3 church members are genuinely converted to Christ.

 

[Oldmantook]

I don't have a church either, because every one that I've stepped in has been apostate. They're fake, destructive and deadly. The "Church" needs reformation and I'm looking for folks that are willing to expose the whole wretched system as it is today.

I would recommend house church but it's difficult to find like-minded believers who don't depend on a paid pastor to lead them.

 

[Oldmantook]

There are many church members who may be correctly religious, but they are trusting in the doctrines of their church instead of Christ Himself. These people may be faithful church members but they are not converted to Christ. The false teaching is that conversion happens as soon as a person prays the sinner's prayer, and that it is automatic. But in many so called "conversions" there is no evidence of a transformation from the flesh/world to Christ. The parable of the seed sower, may apply to an unbeliever hearing the Word for the first time, but the other three states apply to those who have "accepted Christ" but two of them fall short of heaven and only one on the good ground sees the gates of heaven open to them. So, statistically, only 1 out of every 3 church members are genuinely converted to Christ.

You did not explain how Rom 8:13 applies to believers - not unbelievers. You cannot overlook those scriptures that happen to be inconvenient for your beliefs. In the parable of the sower, there are those who "believe for a while." What does BELIEVE for a while mean? It cannot mean never believed.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You did not explain how Rom 8:13 applies to believers - not unbelievers. You cannot overlook those scriptures that don't happen to be inconvenient for your beliefs. In the parable of the sower, there are those who "believe for a while." What does BELIEVE for a while mean? It cannot mean never believed.

The point is, how do YOU know that you are genuinely converted to Christ? What is your evidence? Can you remember exactly when your transformation took place?

 

[Oldmantook]

The point is, how do YOU know that you are genuinely converted to Christ? What is your evidence? Can you remember exactly when your transformation took place?

You did not answer my questions based upon the scriptures. I respectfully suggest you wrestle with the text and show me my error as your reply must be based on the Word - not your opinion.

 

[W2L]

I have always believed in Jesus.

 

[Thess]

I would recommend house church but it's difficult to find like-minded believers who don't depend on a paid pastor to lead them.

I've yet to hear of house church. I'll look into it. The other option is to just get a group going on our own.