If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

[Thess]

Baptism doesn't make us impeccable and incapable of sin.

And we Lutherans do not say that water alone saves, but water joined with the Word. That is the difference between baptism, and getting wet in a bath. When water is joined with Christ's command and ordinance, it is no longer merely water, but Holy Baptism.

I hear what you're saying, but the gentiles received the Holy Spirit at Cornelius's house and Peter than suggested, not demanded or required, but asked in anyone would object to water baptism after they have been saved. We see that same basic situation with the Eunuch and Philip. Philip didn't point out the necessity of water, the Eunuch did....and that's a weird thing, wouldn't you think? My God is reasonable and rational and does not make things difficult nor complicated. Thanks for your post.

 

[Not David]

Not according to Mark 1:8. John makes the distinction between the old water baptism of his and the new baptism that belongs to Jesus. It is baptizing into God, immersing us into Himself. This is a rational baptism that allow God to bring us to Him where ever we are, including the desert and prisons where there is no dunking tanks. God is serious about us and creates a way to know Him....Jesus Christ is that way.

And you totally ignored my comment that says that John's and Jesus' baptism is not the same.

 

[FireDragon76]

I hear what you're saying, but I wouldn't qualify strip clubs and getting wasted were "trials" and "tribulations". I wasn't suffering....at all. I was enjoying one body and after another, totally living for myself. I'm not sure that you're seeing the point that I've made and am making. The sins I've listed above are unusual and not considered typical behavior from a person that genuinely says, "Yes, I am a slave to Jesus. He is my Lord and Master, and I do as He expects of me".

No Christian on earth lives out such a life. I can tell you now, if they claim they do, they are a liar. At best, such a statement is an aspiration. Nobody lives up to perfect ideals of love in this world, and that is what God demands. So we live by grace, not our works, not our conversion, but by faith in God's grace through Jesus Christ.

 

[Thess]

No Christian on earth lives out such a life. I can tell you now, if they claim they do, they are a liar.

Spot on, but my former best friend, who was right there with me in all of the aforementioned crap, has the gall to tell me that he's safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. And that, after finding out that for a time, he was causing me to not want to live. His daughter felt the same, as she was cutting herself all throughout her body. She hated him and herself. But....he's "safe and secure in the arms of Jesus".

He and I aren't friends any longer. 36 years down the drain.

 

[FireDragon76]

I hear what you're saying, but the gentiles received the Holy Spirit at Cornelius's house and Peter than suggested, not demanded or required, but asked in anyone would object to water baptism after they have been saved. We see that same basic situation with the Eunuch and Philip. Philip didn't point out the necessity of water, the Eunuch did....and that's a weird thing, wouldn't you think? My God is reasonable and rational and does not make things difficult nor complicated. Thanks for your post.

We do not deny that faith alone saves, but what kind of faith would spurn that which God has made holy through his Word?

 

[FireDragon76]

Spot on, but my former best friend, who was right there with me in all of the aforementioned crap, has the gall to tell me that he's safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. And that, after finding out that for a time, he was causing me to not want to live. His daughter felt the same, as she was cutting herself all throughout her body. She hated him and herself. But....he's "safe and secure in the arms of Jesus".

He and I aren't friends any longer. 36 years down the drain.

I am not a pastor and that's the best place to take these kinds of concerns.

You do not have to live a sinless life to find confidence in God's grace. Even people that cut themselves or have bad attitudes can be forgiven. We need to be careful about judging God's work because we don't see human beings the way he does. C.S. Lewis talks about this briefly in Mere Christianity. The fact is, churches do not have the most healthy people in them, they aren't museums for saints but hospitals for sinners. That's why we should stay focused on Jesus as our example, and not other Christians.

 

[W2L]

We do not deny that faith alone saves, but what kind of faith would spurn that which God has made holy through his Word?

No one would spurn it that i know of, but someone can have faith that water baptism doesnt save a person.

 

[FireDragon76]

No one would spurn it that i know of, but someone can have faith that water baptism doesnt save a person.

If it has no role in our salvation, why submit to it? Does God just command pointless things?

The idea we show forth our faith in baptism seems highly problematic from a biblical standpoint. We show forth our faith in our works we do, which are not necessarily religious in nature. Nowhere it is implied that baptism is something we just go through to prove our loyalty to God. Then that makes salvation about our works, and not faith.

 

[Thess]

I am not a pastor and that's the best place to take these kinds of concerns.

You do not have to live a sinless life to find confidence in God's grace. Even people that cut themselves or have bad attitudes can be forgiven. We need to be careful about judging God's work because we don't see human beings the way he does. C.S. Lewis talks about this briefly in Mere Christianity. The fact is, churches do not have the most healthy people in them, they aren't museums for saints but hospitals for sinners. That's why we should stay focused on Jesus as our example, and not other Christians.

This forum is exactly for this kind of thing. But note that I'm not looking for advice. I have placed a massive burden upon the one that thinks they can live a life of debauchery and obtain eternal life. I'm not looking for advice, I am here to divide.

 

[W2L]

If it has no role in our salvation, submit to it? Does God just command pointless things?

The idea we show forth our faith in baptism seems highly problematic from a biblical standpoint. We show forth our faith in our works we do, which are not necessarily religious in nature. Nowhere it is implied that baptism is something we just go through to prove our loyalty to God. Then that makes salvation about our works, and not faith.

The apostle Paul wasn't called to baptize. Why was that?

 

[Thess]

That's why we should stay focused on Jesus as our example, and not other Christians.

wooop! I misread your post.

 

[FireDragon76]

This forum is exactly for this kind of thing. But note that I'm not lookin for advice. I have place a massive burden upon the one that things they can live a life of debauchery and obtain eternal life. I'm not looking for advice, I am here to divide.

There is no sin that can separate us from God's love. The only real mortal sin is unbelief and despair. So are you really trying to peddle despair?

 

[FireDragon76]

No. This cannot be true. I needed people to look after me. If Christians had obeyed the plethora of commands to watch out for each other, I wouldn't have lived on the edge of suicide for 16 years, nor would have I had the desire to murder those who were such insatiable hypocrites. Your comment is deadly; please recant on that ideal.

Blaming other people for your decisions is either a sign of lack of character or mental illness, take your pick. Nobody forces you to live a particular life. Instead of focusing on despair for your past sins, you should be focusing on the forgiveness and mercy of God.

 

[Thess]

There is no sin that can separate us from God's love. The only real mortal sin is unbelief and despair. So are you really trying to peddle despair?

Pardon my misunderstanding. I deleted that post of mine because it was in error. Sorry my friend!

 

[Thess]

Blaming other people for your decisions is either a sign of lack of character or mental illness, take your pick. Nobody forces you to live a particular life. Instead of focusing on despair for your past sins, you should be focusing on the forgiveness and mercy of God.

Wow. So I take it that you have not studied "stumbling blocks" and "pitfalls" and what happens to those that cause others to sin?

 

[W2L]

There is no sin that can separate us from God's love. The only real mortal sin is unbelief and despair. So are you really trying to peddle despair?

The apostles knew despair.

2 corinthians 1:8 For we do not want you to be unaware, brethren, of our affliction which came to us in [a]Asia, that we were burdened excessively, beyond our strength, so that we despaired even of life; 9 indeed, we had the sentence of death within ourselves so that we would not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead; 10 who delivered us from so great a peril of death, and will deliver us, [c]He on whom we have set our hope. And He will yet deliver us,

 

[Thess]

Blaming other people for your decisions is either a sign of lack of character or mental illness

That is shocking. Don't ever say things like this to someone who has lived with self-hatred brought on by others. You've gone too far, which is what I warned against at the beginning of this thread. Slow down buster.

 

[FireDragon76]

I know what it is like to have alot of anxiety due to religious worry. I used to be an Orthodox Christian and it ended with me in a mental hospital. But by the grace of God I found a Lutheran church that preached a clearer message and it's cured me of religious anxiety like that. When you hear the Gospel preached clearly and believe it, it will at least end your religious worries, then you can focus on your psychological and other problems realistically.

Whatever you think you have done that is so horrible, it's the same sort of thing many other Christians have done. If you were to talk to a priest or pastor in the seal of confession, they would not be surprised by anything they heard.

 

[Thess]

I know what it is like to have alot of anxiety due to religious worry. I used to be an Orthodox Christian and it ended with me in a mental hospital. But by the grace of God I found a Lutheran church that preached a clearer message and it's cured me of religious anxiety like that. When you hear the Gospel preached clearly and believe it, it will at least end your religious worries, then you can focus on your psychological and other problems realistically.

Whatever you think you have done that is so horrible, it's the same sort of thing many other Christians have done. If you were to talk to a priest or pastor in the seal of confession, they would not be surprised by anything they heard.

You're not understanding. Take care.

 

[W2L]

I know what it is like to have alot of anxiety due to religious worry. I used to be an Orthodox Christian and it ended with me in a mental hospital. But by the grace of God I found a Lutheran church that preached a clearer message and it's cured me of religious anxiety like that. When you hear the Gospel preached clearly and believe it, it will at least end your religious worries, then you can focus on your psychological and other problems realistically.

Whatever you think you have done that is so horrible, it's the same sort of thing many other Christians have done. If you were to talk to a priest or pastor in the seal of confession, they would not be surprised by anything they heard.

Perhaps you could give the personal Savior some credit. I dont have a church but God is my daily medication. God Helps me by sustaining me one day at a time..