Is Freemasonry really Satanic?

[Rubricnigel]

"The document details an alleged Masonic plan to infiltrate the Catholic Church and spread liberal ideas within it. The Carbonari had strong similarities to Freemasonry and so the document is seen by some as a Masonic document."

That's what your link says. The document is not Masonic at all.

That's "wikipedia", which is just a credible link to not have you say, "im not clicking that weird link". The actual book you can read here

Permanent Instructiion of the Alta Vendita, Masonic Subversion of Catholic Church Vennari NWO Illuminati Freemasons : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Its not long like i said 20 pages or so. I encourage all to read this. It was so damning that the pope spoke about it.

Freemasonry and the Subersion of the Catholic Church

You must understand what the book says. It talks about infiltration and moral subversion from within the Catholic Church (kinda whats happened huh?)
Its a plan set forth by a top level group of secret society members with close ties to free masonry, and other secret societies.

Free masonry:::::
We shall unleash the nihilists and the atheists and we shall provoke
a great social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to all nations the effect of absolute atheism; the origins of savagery and of most bloody turmoil.

Then everywhere, the people will be forced to defend themselves against the world minority of the world revolutionaries and will exterminate those destroyers of civilization and the multitudes disillusioned with Christianity whose spirits will be from that moment without direction and leadership and anxious for an ideal, but without knowledge where to send its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer brought finally out into public view. A manifestation which will result from a general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and Atheism; both conquered and exterminated at the same time.

Albert Pike

Thats so christian huh?

 

[Albion]

That's "wikipedia", which is just a credible link to not have you say, "im not clicking that weird link". The actual book you can read here....

You must understand what the book says. It talks about infiltration and moral subversion from within the Catholic Church (kinda whats happened huh?)
Its a plan set forth by a top level group of secret society members with close ties to free masonry, and other secret societies.

"With close ties" means they were NOT Masons.

Apparently, they were Carbonari, a totally different organization. Plus, European Masonry is not recognized by American Masonry and in fact is forbidden to American Masons, meaning that this whole issue is pointless anyway.

 

[Rick Otto]

What do they call that game where they put a ball under one of three cups & then shuffle the cups around on the table?
I love how some people conversationally do that with definitions in trying to move goalposts.
I define reality simply with my assertiveness. (lol)

When the languages got confused, the builders had to re-organize under a babble of different names.

 

[Rubricnigel]

"With close ties" means they were NOT Masons.

Apparently, they were Carbonari, a totally different organization. Plus, European Masonry is not recognized by American Masonry and in fact is forbidden to American Masons, meaning that this whole issue is pointless anyway.

Arent you going to try to argue Alberts Pike quote? I mean he was one of the most famous ones ever, his statue is in D.C (weird how a confederate general has a statue on the north?)

As for you just waving it away, wrong. Alot of the members were masons. Free masonry is satanic, its un-chrisitia. Are you a mason and thats why you are defending them? If so, whats your rank?

 

[Rubricnigel]

What do they call that game where they put a ball under one of three cups & then shuffle the cups around on the table?
I love how some people conversationally do that with definitions in trying to move goalposts.
I define reality simply with my assertiveness. (lol)

When the languages got confused, the builders had to re-organize under a babble of different names.

3 card monty, where the player always wins (once

 

[Albion]

Arent you going to try to argue Alberts Pike quote? I mean he was one of the most famous ones ever, his statue is in D.C (weird how a confederate general has a statue on the north?)

Do you want me to argue it? First, I was not able to ascertain that that quote was genuinely from Pike, and there have been many forged writings purporting to be from him. The best known of these was actually penned by Leo Taxil who later confessed.

But Pike didn't hold a position as head of a branch of Masonry or something like that in any case, so what he might have written is simply his own interpretation of things--that's one man out of tens of millions of Masons. I myself have read books by all sorts of Masons explaining what they think some historical mystery or the like means to them. They're all different. Why should that make me or anyone else think that what a quote like this says means anything about what Masonry itself holds to? It doesn't. Whether it is Pike's or someone else's, or how we should understand what it means, it is simply one mans opinion.

 

[Rubricnigel]

Do you want me to argue it? First, I was not able to ascertain that that quote was genuinely from Pike, and there have been many forged writings purporting to be from him. The best known of these was actually penned by Leo Taxil who later confessed.

But Pike didn't hold a position as head of a branch of Masonry or something like that in any case, so what he might have written is simply his own interpretation of things--that's one man out of tens of millions of Masons. I myself have read books by all sorts of Masons explaining what they think some historical mystery or the like means to them. They're all different. Why should that make me or anyone else think that what a quote like this says means anything about what Masonry itself holds to? It doesn't. Whether it is Pike's or someone else's, or how we should understand what it means, it is simply one mans opinion.

So no answer about masonry membership?

Albert pike was a huge mason, he wrote one of the books 90% of masons own (but never read) he isnt someone who says something and having no meaning behind it within the lodge. He spoke for the lodge in alot of matters.

Albert Pike - Wikipedia

He praised lucifer as the morning star (or sun)
Anyway ive argued with the people who pay dues and keep the lodge afloat before, nothing i say or quote will change your mind. All ill say is this, as you progeess up the ranks and learn more you'll see more and more satanic things. Its been all leaked out for years by past masons from the highest levels, its hard to deny it.

Christians cant be a free mason, etc.

 

[Albion]

Albert pike was a huge mason, he wrote one of the books 90% of masons own (but never read)

That's not true. There would be no way of coming up with that statistic anyway.

If the claim were true that a copy is given to every new initiate (it isn't), only the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite Masonic organization which Pike belonged to (but did not head up) would be involved. The Southern Jurisdiction covers much less territory than the Northern Jurisdiction and relatively few Masons belong to any Scottish Rite organization!

So the claim is not credible. Even if it were true, it wouldn't say anything about Masonry itself but just about Pikes personal take on things relating to the Scottish Rite...and that's assuming that the meaning of the words you copied meant to him what you think they mean. A quick glance as his writings should be sufficient to show interested parties that he dealt in all sorts of analogies and symbolism.

In short, people really ought to do themselves a favor and stop believing everything they read in those sensationalist Conspiracy Theory websites.

 

[Rubricnigel]

That's not true. There would be no way of coming up with that statistic anyway.

If the claim were true that a copy is given to every new initiate (it isn't), only the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite Masonic organization which Pike belonged to (but did not head up) would be involved. The Southern Jurisdiction covers much less territory than the Northern Jurisdiction and relatively few Masons belong to any Scottish Rite organization!

So the claim is not credible. Even if it were true, it wouldn't say anything about Masonry itself but just about Pikes personal take on things relating to the Scottish Rite...and that's assuming that the meaning of the words you copied meant to him what you think they mean. A quick glance as his writings should be sufficient to show interested parties that he dealt in all sorts of analogies and symbolism.

In short, people really ought to do themselves a favor and stop believing everything they read in those sensationalist Conspiracy Theory websites.

Yes lets toss out all the EX high level masons own testimonials saying its satanic to the core. Lets dismiss what one of the most influential free masons in the u.s.a wrote in several books, because some random guy on the Internet (you) who happens to be a free mason tells us to.

Right!

 

[Albion]

Yes lets toss out all the EX high level masons own testimonials saying its satanic to the core.

"All the?" Whom do you have in mind there? And what did they say that shows Masonry to be "satanic to the core?"

There are about 3,000,000 Masons in the USA alone, so I assume that there are quite a number of these people you are referring to--the "all the" people.

 

[Meester-Chung]

 

[circuitrider]

"All the?" Whom do you have in mind there? And what did they say that shows Masonry to be "satanic to the core?"

There are about 3,000,000 Masons in the USA alone, so I assume that there are quite a number of these people you are referring to--the "all the" people.

Albion, I haven't been in this forum recently. I'm sorry to see you still having to defend the fraternity. There is so much bad misinformation and wild conspiracy theories out there. It never ceases to amaze me that people won't take the word of the Masonic membership as to what it is about.

After all if I want to know what a Roman Catholic believes, I ask a priest. If I want to know what Baptists believe I ask a Baptist. I don't go reading websites and documents written by non-members or disgruntled former members with an axe to grind. But that's what people often do with Freemasonry.

And yes, for the collected posters here, I'm a Freemason.

 

[Albion]

Hi, Circuitrider. And I would add such other head-shaking realities as this--most Masons are Christians. Several ordained ministers of prominent, mainline American denominations are members here on CF and are Masons...but they are not supposed to have picked up any hint of the supposedly Satanic, Lucifer-worshipping nature of the fraternity that we are told about by other people who have no personal knowledge of it.

 

[circuitrider]

Hi, Circuitrider. And I would add such other head-shaking realities as this--most Masons are Christians. Several ordained ministers of prominent, mainline American denominations are members here on CF and are Masons...but they are not supposed to have picked up any hint of the supposedly Satanic, Lucifer-worshipping nature of the fraternity that we are told about by other people who have no personal knowledge of it.

Very true. I'm an ordained Pastor in the UMC, have been in ministry for nearly 30 years and a Mason for 18 year. I also know several other ordained clergy just in my area who are also Masons from several different Christian denominations.

I've not seen anything in Craft Freemasonry, Scottish Rite, York Rite, etc. that fits the half baked idea that Freemasonry is some how satanic. In fact I meet a lot of very committed Christians in Masonic lodges. The last time I was master of a lodge the majority of the officers belonged to the church I was appointed to and almost everyone else was active in another one of the churches in town.

Every time I hear this stuff I'm struck by the total unreality of what the conspiracy theorists think Freemasonry is and what it actually is.

 

[Albion]

But no one can tell them that, since they are prepared to respond with the claim that ordinary members--the peons who are merely used (how, is not explained) by the secret Masonic masters of the universe to control all the world's economies and governments (!)--are kept in the dark about the real nature of the fraternity.

The critics will then proceed to point to specific 'evidence,' allegedly from the ritual, that THEY, the critics, recognize (from having some website show a picture) as Satanic, etc. but which the Christian members of the fraternity supposedly never noticed.

Say what???

 

[circuitrider]

The critics will then proceed to point to specific 'evidence,' allegedly from the ritual, that THEY, the critics, recognize (from having some website show a picture) as Satanic, etc. but which the Christian members of the fraternity supposedly never noticed.

Say what???

Ritual that they've not read or seen that may or may not even be a real Masonic ritual. And some how the non-Mason knows what it says better than a Mason does. <eye roll>

I had someone bring me a supposed ritual of a York Rite degree which he claimed was Satanic and the passwords of the degree he gave me were indeed Satanic. The problem was, it was NOT a real Masonic degree. How do I know? I have received and conferred that degree and the ritual he showed me was not at all the real ritual of the degree.

But, someone told him it was a Masonic degree. They had appended a title of an actual degree onto the ritual so, obviously he had to believe it. <double eye roll>

 

[Rick Otto]

Albion, I haven't been in this forum recently. I'm sorry to see you still having to defend the fraternity. There is so much bad misinformation and wild conspiracy theories out there. It never ceases to amaze me that people won't take the word of the Masonic membership as to what it is about.

After all if I want to know what a Roman Catholic believes, I ask a priest. If I want to know what Baptists believe I ask a Baptist. I don't go reading websites and documents written by non-members or disgruntled former members with an axe to grind. But that's what people often do with Freemasonry.

And yes, for the collected posters here, I'm a Freemason.

I'm sorry to see the lack of intuition regarding critical thought as if asking any supportive member of any organization what there opinion or belief is, will give any critical analysis.
It's as if analysis doesn't exist, just acceptance of whatever compartmentalized, sworn initiate will say.
But some people will fall for anything, especially if it dresses itself up in noble purpose and authoritative hierarchy with titles and symbols.

It's not about knowing what else an oath swearing initiate is gullible about.

 

[Rick Otto]

Very true. I'm an ordained Pastor in the UMC, have been in ministry for nearly 30 years and a Mason for 18 year. I also know several other ordained clergy just in my area who are also Masons from several different Christian denominations.

I've not seen anything in Craft Freemasonry, Scottish Rite, York Rite, etc. that fits the half baked idea that Freemasonry is some how satanic. In fact I meet a lot of very committed Christians in Masonic lodges. The last time I was master of a lodge the majority of the officers belonged to the church I was appointed to and almost everyone else was active in another one of the churches in town.

Every time I hear this stuff I'm struck by the total unreality of what the conspiracy theorists think Freemasonry is and what it actually is.

Conversely, I am struck by the total unreality of what sworn initiates think it's about.
Being committed to churchianity is not the same as being committed to Christianity, but often passes for such. A lot of charities happen support huge administrative budgets.

 

[Albion]

I'm sorry to see the lack of intuition regarding critical thought as if asking any supportive member of any organization what there opinion or belief is, will give any critical analysis.

I am surprised to read this, Rick, because it is undeniable that Masons who are members here of CF have answered question after question, and point after point, with plenty of specifics. Then they are usually told by the other party something like Masons are required to lie, or that they don't know what they are doing (although the non-Masons who have never experience any of it are experts for some reason that's never made entirely clear). Engaging the Masons in a discussion or give-and-take is actually rare.

It's as if analysis doesn't exist, just acceptance of whatever compartmentalized, sworn initiate will say.
But some people will fall for anything, especially if it dresses itself up in noble purpose and authoritative hierarchy with titles and symbols.

...or is presented on a scary-looking website or printed in a book by some unknown author?

 

[Rick Otto]

QUOTE="circuitrider, post: 73331138, member: 338223"]Ritual that they've not read or seen that may or may not even be a real Masonic ritual. And some how the non-Mason knows what it says better than a Mason does. <eye roll>

Double eyerolls somehow do nothing to correct my alleged ignorance. I'm sure it's me. lol

I had someone bring me a supposed ritual of a York Rite degree which he claimed was Satanic and the passwords of the degree he gave me were indeed Satanic. The problem was, it was NOT a real Masonic degree. How do I know? I have received and conferred that degree and the ritual he showed me was not at all the real ritual of the degree.

I'm supposed to take the word of an admitted member who only scoffs and never reveals anything providing clarity? No thank you, I'm not buying that bridge.

But, someone told him it was a Masonic degree. They had appended a title of an actual degree onto the ritual so, obviously he had to believe it. <double eye roll>

That settlest it, a self proclaimed MASON has spoken! We can close the thread now.