Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

[Saint Steven]

on the unconditional love of God the Father of all mercy

Here is something Jesus said about the subject.

Luke 16:27-29
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

 

[Pneuma3]

Here is something Jesus said about the subject.

Luke 16:27-29
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

and your point being?

 

[Saint Steven]

MUCH MORE then aionios life


Many of God people believe aionios life is the fullness of life in Christ, and because of this error they have a hard time answering the eternal punishment and eternal life scriptures.


They will state such things as aionios can mean something different within one sentence, and it subject determines the fullness or lack thereof of the meaning.


But we need not change the meaning of aionios in such a fashion to understand Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being. For there are other words in scripture to show forth Gods eternal (as in without beginning and without end) being.


Before I show how God is eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end lets look at a few more scriptures that will help the reader understand aionios only means age-lasting and is of limited duration.


The Hebrew word for aionios is olam, so lets look at a few scriptures from the old testament.


Habakkuk 3:6

6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.


The reader can see here that both the hills and Gods ways are everlasting. So if olam or aionios in the Greek means without beginning and without end then the hills had no beginning and will have no end, but we know that the hills have a beginning and we no that they have an end because they bow down.


Now the only way for those who believe olam means eternal can get around this is to say olam means one thing in the first part of the sentence and means something else in the second part of the sentence.



Psalm 41:13

13 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.


Psalm 90:1-2

1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


Here the reader can see God is from olam/aionios to olam/aionios.

If olam/aionios means without beginning and without end then these scripture makes absolutely no sense, for can there be more then ONE eternity? Hardly, so the reader cans see olam/aionios is used in the limited sense of age-lasting.


So the reader can see olam/aionios means age-lasting and is always used in a limited sense.


But some will say if it is always used in a limited sense then that would mean aionios life is also limited in duration. This is CORRECT, aionios life is of limited duration.

I already know many will say that’s blaspheme, but bare with me for a few more moments if you will.


Lets go back to Ps.90 for a moment and read it again.


Psalm 90:1-2

1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.


We have already seen olam/aionios is of limited duration, but what else does this scripture tell us? It tells us that the LIFE of God is GREATER then that of olam/aionios, for God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios.


The Life of God and of Christ is not just olam/aionios but their LIFE is MORE then that, yea MUCH MORE. Their LIFE exceeds the olam/aionios life just as a week exceeds a day, a month exceeds a week and a year exceeds a month, so to does the LIFE of God in Christ exceed olam/aionios LIFE.


The error both camps fall into is the belief that aionios life is all the life there is in God and Christ. But as the reader just read God is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios, thus is it not then clear that we to in Christ are given a LIFE far greater then just olam/aionios LIFE.


Lets read in Hebrew and you will see Christ life (and therefore ours) exceeds that of olam/aionios life.


Hebrews 7:16

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


Akatalutos-Endless: indissoluble, not subject to destruction

From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end


Now as Akatalutos-Endless clearly shows that of a life without end, why did not the writers of the scriptures use Akatalutos concerning punishment and life instead of olam/aionios? Is it not because olam/aionios is of limited duration?


What we receive in Christ is a AKATALUTOS/ENDLESS LIFE, a life that spans EVERY olam/aionios age-lasting life. Just as Gods life is FROM olam/aionios TO olam/aionios so to is ours in Christ.


Lets read in Pet. To further see this life we are to inherit that is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.


1 Peter 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,


Aphthartos-incorruptible: uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable

Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end


Amarantos-fadeth not away: not fading away, unfading, perennial

Again From the root of A or Alpha: Christ is the Alpha to indicate that he is the beginning and the end


Can not the reader see here just how much more grand our life is in Christ then just olam/aionios age-abiding life?


These are just a few examples of how MUCH MORE our life in Christ is then olam/aionios life.


If punishment was to be eternal in the sense of without beginning and without end surely the Holy Spirit would have use one of the words expressed above to show this, but NEVER is any of these words that express endlessness EVER used in the punishments of God.


Praise God there is MUCH MORE to life in Christ then just that of olam/aionios life, and it is because so many of God people do not realise this that they fall into the error of changing the meaning of words within the same sentence.


Brothers and sister there is absolutely no need to do this if one can but see the life we have in Christ is MUCH MORE then olam/aionios life.


Even FROM everlasting TO everlasting, thou art God.

That didn't really answer my question. Here it is again in case you want to give it another shot.

In an effort to diminish "eternal" punishment, you are also diminishing "eternal" life. Because the exact same NT Greek word is used to describe both.

Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Saint Steven]

and your point being?

Where do you draw the line?
If endless torment in hell is unthinkable, why not apply the same idea to momentary torment?

We have earthly rules (Geneva Convention) against human torture of any kind. We categorize these acts as war crimes. Ten minutes of earthly torture would qualify, would it not?

Is not hell the creation of God? Created for Satan and his angels. The unbelieving/disbelieving humans will join them. But only temporarily according to you.

 

[Solomon Smith]

You "don't see". Yet you didn't address specifically any comments i made in my post showing exactly how 1 Cor.6:9-11 is in harmony with universalism. What didn't you understand?

75 UR verses + 100 proofs + 150 reasons etc:
Web Online Help

I did address it.

I said that those who are cleansed are the believers.

 

[Solomon Smith]

Already addressed in many posts & threads

Addressed but not adequately answered.

 

[Sam81]

Is that right, guess we all are going to suffer eternal consequences.

You crucified the Son of God.

 

[Solomon Smith]

There's no endless punishment here:

The ECF certainly did testify of an eternal hell.

 

[Solomon Smith]

2000 Years of Church History testifies that there is an eternal hell.

 

[Solomon Smith]

Universalism is a heresy.

 

[Solomon Smith]

This thread is lunacy.

 

[Solomon Smith]

The Church has agreed for 2000 years that there is eternal punishment.

 

[Sam81]

Those who hear the Word of God and reject it are Christ murderers. And not content to murder Christ, they seek to inject their venom into the little ones. Soul murdering antichrists!

 

[Solomon Smith]

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[Pneuma3]

That didn't really answer my question. Here it is again in case you want to give it another shot.

In an effort to diminish "eternal" punishment, you are also diminishing "eternal" life. Because the exact same NT Greek word is used to describe both.

Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

It did answer your question if you actually read it.

 

[Pneuma3]

Where do you draw the line?
If endless torment in hell is unthinkable, why not apply the same idea to momentary torment?

We have earthly rules (Geneva Convention) against human torture of any kind. We categorize these acts as war crimes. Ten minutes of earthly torture would qualify, would it not?

Is not hell the creation of God? Created for Satan and his angels. The unbelieving/disbelieving humans will join them. But only temporarily according to you.

When one is dying on the cross one goes through a "hell" of a lot of torment as the old man is being destroyed.

You simply have a pagan view of hell.

 

[Solomon Smith]

Ten Foundational Verses for Eternal Punishment in Hell
OCTOBER 4, 2011 | Justin Taylor



In his contribution to the book in Two Views of Hell, Robert Peterson sets forth ten passages that as part of the “overwhelming evidence” to support the historical interpretation of hell as everlasting punishment. I agree with Peterson’s citation of Augustine, “who cautions us against following the example of those who, ‘while not slighting the authority of the sacred Scriptures, . . . nevertheless interpret them wrongly and suppose that what is to happen will not be what the Scriptures speak of, but what they themselves would like to happen” (City of God 21.27). I find myself facing the same temptation, so it is helpful to keep God’s Word front and center when constructing our theology.

1. Undying Worm and Unquenchable Fire (OT)

Isaiah 66:22-24

For as the new heavens and the new earth
that I make
shall remain before me, says the LORD,
so shall your offspring and your name remain.
From new moon to new moon,
and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
declares the LORD.

And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.

2. Everlasting Life/Everlasting Contempt

Daniel 12:1-2

At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3. Eternal Fire/The Fire of Hell

Matthew 18:6-9

Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

4. Eternal Punishment/Eternal Life

Matthew 25:31-46

When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” . . . Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

5. Undying Worm and Unquenchable Fire (NT)

Mark 9:42-48

Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, “where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.”

6. Everlasting Destruction

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10

This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering—since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

7. The Punishment of Eternal Fire

Jude 7

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

8. Blackest Darkness Reserved Forever

Jude 13

[These people are] wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

9. The Smoke of Their Torment Rises for Ever and Ever

Revelation 14:9-11

If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

10. The Lake of Fire

Revelation 20:10, 14-15

And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. . . . Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Pneuma3]

Those who hear the Word of God and reject it are Christ murderers. And not content to murder Christ, they seek to inject their venom into the little ones. Soul murdering antichrists!

The Antichrist goes along telling everyone that God loves them, sent Jesus to die for them, and as God cannot fail to do what he set out to do they will all be saved.

You have it backwards my young friend, the Antichrist is against all that Jesus came to do.
What did Jesus come to do?
The salvation of the world.

Thus when you speak out against the salvation of the world you are speaking out against Christ and his mission, thus it is YOU who are antichrist not us.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Before I begin I want to say that I am in no way one of those people who believe in annihilation to please my flesh or rely on my own understanding to make myself feel better. Sure you can use God's character as an argument, but I am here to show you pure biblical evidence where God clearly states the punishment for sin is death. If I saw in scripture God clearly say the wicked will have eternal conscious torment and hell is an eternal torture chamber, I would still trust him and accept that. But I just don't see the biblical evidence for this popular belief and ironically enough, so many Christians who are deep in the bible and far in their walk believe this view and think the truth (death of the wicked) is unbiblcal. I think scripture was twisted and the church popularized this false belief, and they obviously did a good job in it. As a side note, I truly think ceasing to exist is actually the worst punishment of all because you will never get a chance for life and you can never feel anything, so God is still just in that case and the wicked will pay for rejecting God. Some people believe in universal salvation which I do think is unbiblical.

I believe the lake of fire is a very real place. It clearly says the lake of fire is real in scripture, and there will be torment and punishment in there before the souls of the wicked perish and God restores his creation. When God makes the new heaven and new earth as stated in revelation, there will be no more room for suffering and evil. All evil will die and there will be no more need for existence of it. A lot of people make the argument that all souls are eternal, but that doesn't make any sense because before we were born, we did not exist. So we are not eternal in the way God is. Not to mention God has the power to destroy souls because he is the almighty creator. The bible says the righteous will have everlasting LIFE and the wicked will PERISH. It says the wages of sin is DEATH. The bible talks about everlasting "destruction". It says evil and hell will be thrown into the lake and fire for the second DEATH. I know a lot of people will make the argument death only refers to spiritual death, but it does not specifically say this in the bible, death means death, not only spiritual death but the death of your soul, and it seems pretty clear in the bible so there is no need to add to it. Most of all it talks about how the gift Jesus gives to the righteous is life, and if you don't believe in him you will receive the opposite which is death. The eternal punishment the bible talks about is the destruction of the soul for eternity.

Here is the biblical evidence:

Psalm 1:6 "For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."

Psalm 37:20 "But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalm 69:28 "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous" Psalm 34:16 "The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth."

Psalm 92:7 "When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:"

Proverbs 24:20 "For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out"

Isaiah 1:28, 30-31 "And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed."

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Matthew 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

Philippians 3:19 "Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things."

1 Corinthians 3:17 "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;"

Revelation 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death"

Jesus taught everlasting Hell, so would trust in His view!

 

[Solomon Smith]

Thus when you speak out against the salvation of the world you are speaking out against Christ and his mission

The whole world will not be saved. Salvation is only for those who believe.