SDA

[BobRyan]

As you surely know by now, no one who disagrees with you about observing a Saturday sabbath is going to change their mind no matter what you write,

As we all know by now - ALL these pro-sunday Christian groups AGREE that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God - written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.


The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

I cannot debate with you...<obligatory snipe deleted here>

It's the "details" you struggle with .. not me.

The above post and your response to it - illustrates the point.

 

[BobRyan]

Lets spell it out clearly. SDA members believe it is written in your mind and placed on your heart to follow a specific Saturday Sabbath

quote someone other than "yourself" when speaking about what others are supposedly believing.

Well obviously you could not actually address the point made honestly could you

There was no point made - only a false accusation of the form "SDAs believe that all Christians have the command to not bow down before images written on their heart - and yet accept Christians that do that " --

Step 1. Show us an SDA saying that -- other than the fiction you are presenting.

 

[Karola]

As we all know by now - ALL these pro-sunday Christian groups AGREE that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God - written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.


The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.



It's the "details" you struggle with .. not me.

The above post and your response to it - illustrates the point.

Lets spell it out clearly. SDA members believe it is written in your mind and placed on your heart to follow a specific Saturday Sabbath in relation to the ten commandments. They say this law must be obeyed. Yet they accept as Christians people who constantly break this law they insist must be obeyed and do so unrepentantly
So they accept as Christians people they believe commit constant unrepentant sin

 

[mmksparbud]

That’s an amusing answer. Do you accept as Christians people you believe break law concerning the ten commandments written on their minds and placed on their hearts, and who do so constantly and unrepentantly?

We all know you do, so I guess you have no choice but to deflect. See where your beliefs get you???? Only deflection left

What you say makes absolutely no sense. No one can enter into the presence of God with unrepentant sin--no one--not even you. I know of no church, that teaches that. Deflection---seeing as you are the ones that is constantly stating what I believe instead of what is being said---defection is in your court. You seem to know a lot of what isn't true---that is what going on feeling gets you instead of "it is written."

 

[Karola]

There was no point made - only a false accusation of the form .

You will say anything won't you rather than admit the truth of what I wrote, no matter how ridiculous, or untruthful. Just like you doing gymnastics with scripture you cannot accept, and just like you accuse others of deleting scripture with another scripture while that is what you yourself are doing.
There really is no possibility of intelligent debate then

 

[BobRyan]

In the case of the Bible Sabbath it is very clear - beyond all question,

1. It was made for mankind Mark 2:27
2. It is one of the TEN commandments - Ex 20:8-11 and is the seventh day
3. It is still in force for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth for all mankind Is 66:23
4. Gentiles are specifically singled out even in the OT for Sabbath keeping - Isaiah 56:6-8

Scripture can be pretty creative

Not if you just accept what it says instead of inserting preference and spin into it.

God himself is pretty creative too, so then we accurately convey what He has creatively written in scripture - instead of quoting-self, making stuff up, engaging in creative writing instead of accurate reading.

etc.

If you think this is "creative writing" then point out where all the Christians are in these Isaiah verses you quoted !

1 Cor 10:4
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

1 Peter 1: 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow

Heb 4:1-2 "WE have had the gospel preached to us just as THEY also"

Then why do you keep doing it yourself? What you convey through your creatively cherry-picked verses <obligatory sniping deleted here>...

Substance..... looking for substance.

1. No text calls the 4th commandment Sabbath "ceremonial Sabbath" for that fiction we need to "quote you".
2. Almost every Christian group on the planet admits the obvious fact that all TEN of the TEN commandments are moral law - not ceremonial law.


1 Cor 10:4
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

1 Peter 1: 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow

Heb 4:1-2 "WE have had the gospel preached to us just as THEY also"

Wow, deja vu...

Which is apparently why there are so many questions and disagreements over it, obvously.

Bible texts... address the point they make ... deal with the details...

Yes, the ritual weekly sabbath was made specifically for the Israelites at Sinai and *their* descendants

Your skill in "quoting you" has never been questioned.

1. No text calls the 4th commandment Sabbath "ceremonial Sabbath" for that fiction we need to "quote you".
2. Almost every Christian group on the planet admits the obvious fact that all TEN of the TEN commandments are moral law - not ceremonial law.

Irrefutable.

 

[Karola]

What you say makes absolutely no sense. No one can enter into the presence of God with unrepentant sin--no one--not even you. I know of no church, that teaches that. Deflection---seeing as you are the ones that is constantly stating what I believe instead of what is being said---defection is in your court. You seem to know a lot of what isn't true---that is what going on feeling gets you instead of "it is written."

Your response says it all

 

[BobRyan]

Lets spell it out clearly. SDA members believe it is written in your mind and placed on your heart to follow a specific Saturday Sabbath

quote someone other than "yourself" when speaking about what others are supposedly believing.

Well obviously you could not actually address the point made honestly could you

There was no point made - only a false accusation of the form "SDAs believe that all Christians have the command to not bow down before images written on their heart - and yet accept Christians that do that " --

Step 1. Show us an SDA saying that -- other than the fiction you are presenting.

You will say anything won't you rather than admit the truth of what I wrote...<obligatory rant deleted here>

Your false accusation has no truth in it.

Your false accusation is of the form -- "SDAs believe that all Christians have the command to not bow down before images written on their heart - and yet accept Christians that do that " -- and you only "quote you" as your "proof" of it.

How sad.

How transparently obvious to the unbiased objective readers.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

Your response says it all

Finally -- a point of agreement.

 

[Karola]

They cannot even bring themselves to address the honest point made. Still, this is the internet. I guess the truth of what you write has to be deflected from so they can go on arguing about the only topic they want to discuss, or possibly feel able to discuss

 

[BobRyan]

They cannot even bring themselves to address the honest point made.

present one. Let's test that idea.

 

[Karola]

present one. Let's test that idea.

You know it really is quite sad this.

 

[mmksparbud]

Your response says it all

Thank you---so does yours.

 

[Karola]

present one. Let's test that idea.

Lets spell it out clearly. SDA members believe it is written in your mind and placed on your heart to follow a specific Saturday Sabbath in relation to the ten commandments. They say this law must be obeyed. Yet they accept as Christians people who constantly break this law they insist must be obeyed and do so unrepentantly
So they accept as Christians people they believe commit constant unrepentant sin


Does honesty matter when you are faced with the above? I guess not, possibly that is not written in your heart and mind?

 

[Karola]

Thank you---so does yours.

Lets spell it out clearly. SDA members believe it is written in your mind and placed on your heart to follow a specific Saturday Sabbath in relation to the ten commandments. They say this law must be obeyed. Yet they accept as Christians people who constantly break this law they insist must be obeyed and do so unrepentantly
So they accept as Christians people they believe commit constant unrepentant sin


Does honesty matter when you are faced with the above? I guess not, possibly that is not written in your heart and mind?

 

[mmksparbud]

Lets spell it out clearly. SDA members believe it is written in your mind and placed on your heart to follow a specific Saturday Sabbath in relation to the ten commandments. They say this law must be obeyed. Yet they accept as Christians people who constantly break this law they insist must be obeyed and do so unrepentantly
So they accept as Christians people they believe commit constant unrepentant sin


Does honesty matter when you are faced with the above? I guess not, possibly that is not written in your heart and mind?

We--like Paul, and Jesus and the rest of Christianity, accept as Christians all who accept Jesus as their Savior and and we are aware of the fact that no one is perfect and that sanctification is a life long process and that God gives the knowledge to each individual as He sees fit and we try to not judge anyone based on what they believe is the truth. It is between them and God. Each is to live up to what God has told them, when He tells them. You may feel free to judge others I do not. We are to teach others what we feel we have been shown. That is what we do. It's up to them and God what they do with that information. God is the judge--no one answers to any SDA--to Him alone. Your judgement of others is your choice. Even you will have to see what God says about you.

 

[BobRyan]

Lets spell it out clearly. SDA members believe it is written in your mind and placed on your heart to follow a specific Saturday Sabbath

quote someone other than "yourself" when speaking about what others are supposedly believing.

Well obviously you could not actually address the point made honestly could you

There was no point made - only a false accusation of the form "SDAs believe that all Christians have the command to not bow down before images written on their heart - and yet accept Christians that do that " --

Step 1. Show us an SDA saying that -- other than the fiction you are presenting.

You will say anything won't you rather than admit the truth of what I wrote...<obligatory rant deleted here>

Your false accusation has no truth in it.

Your false accusation is of the form -- "SDAs believe that all Christians have the command to not bow down before images written on their heart - and yet accept Christians that do that " -- and you only "quote you" as your "proof" of it.

How sad.

How transparently obvious to the unbiased objective readers.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"???

Your response says it all

Finally -- a point of agreement.

They cannot even bring themselves to address the honest point made.

present one. Let's test that idea.

You know it really is quite sad this.

For once we agree on something.

 

[BobRyan]

Lets spell it out clearly. SDA members believe it is written in your mind and placed on your heart to follow a specific Saturday Sabbath in relation to the ten commandments.

You never show that SDAs think that all mankind have that conviction in their heart.

Does honesty matter when you are faced with the above? I guess not, possibly that is not written in your heart and mind?

Your false accusation is of the form -- "SDAs believe that all Christians have the command to not bow down before images written on their heart - and yet accept Christians that do that " -- and you only "quote you" as your "proof" of it.

I am coming to the point of believing you want to give me 20 more opportunities to point out this same flaw in your solution.

 

[bekkilyn]

The true Sabbath is what Jesus, the Creator of it says it is! And as He, Himself kept it--even in death. The Sabbath was never a "shadow of things to come"--it always has pointed backwards to the beginning of time itself at creation and to the only commandment that states God created it and He is the creator of all. No mixing and matching of anything--just a plain "thus sayeth the Lord."

You're getting your covenants mixed up again.

 

[bekkilyn]

In the case of the Bible Sabbath it is very clear - beyond all question,

1. It was made for mankind Mark 2:27
2. It is one of the TEN commandments - Ex 20:8-11 and is the seventh day
3. It is still in force for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth for all mankind Is 66:23
4. Gentiles are specifically singled out even in the OT for Sabbath keeping - Isaiah 56:6-8

Not if you just accept what it says instead of inserting preference and spin into it.

God himself is pretty creative too, so then we accurately convey what He has creatively written in scripture - instead of quoting-self, making stuff up, engaging in creative writing instead of accurate reading.

etc.

1 Cor 10:4
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

1 Peter 1: 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow

Heb 4:1-2 "WE have had the gospel preached to us just as THEY also"

Substance..... looking for substance.

1. No text calls the 4th commandment Sabbath "ceremonial Sabbath" for that fiction we need to "quote you".
2. Almost every Christian group on the planet admits the obvious fact that all TEN of the TEN commandments are moral law - not ceremonial law.

1 Cor 10:4
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

1 Peter 1: 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow

Heb 4:1-2 "WE have had the gospel preached to us just as THEY also"

Bible texts... address the point they make ... deal with the details...

Your skill in "quoting you" has never been questioned.

I suppose you have nothing then to back up your claims since you're reposting the same thing again for at least the third time and none of it actually addresses any of the responses made to it.

1. No text calls the 4th commandment Sabbath "ceremonial Sabbath" for that fiction we need to "quote you".

The word "ceremonial" is an adjective, and describes the way the Israelites/Jews observed their weekly sabbath ritual. They had many rituals and observances they were responsible for keeping under the old covenant and all of them had a particular purpose. For Christians, all of it was fulfilled with Christ.

No scripture breaks up the law into moral, ceremonial, etc. in order to make it possible to ignore the laws you don't like while insisting everyone should be yoked to the laws that you do like. If you're under the law, you're responsible for keeping ALL of it. Not all besides ceremonial, or all besides moral, or all besides whatever other categories people have concocted to conveniently ignore the laws they want to ignore. ALL the law.

2. Almost every Christian group on the planet admits the obvious fact that all TEN of the TEN commandments are moral law - not ceremonial law.

Irrefutable.

And what is something called that you do on a regular daily, weekly, monthly, etc. basis?

Yes, a ritual or ceremony.

There is no morality or immorality to a ritual sabbath observance. It's simply something that someone who observes it does every week on a ritual basis. Just putting the word "moral" next to it and writing it into SDA doctrine as such doesn't define it as having anything to do with morality.

In the form that it was given to the Israelites at Sinai, it is indeed a ceremonial law, just the same as all their other regularly recurring special days that they observed...feasts, new moons, sabbaths, etc.

 

[bekkilyn]

They cannot even bring themselves to address the honest point made. Still, this is the internet. I guess the truth of what you write has to be deflected from so they can go on arguing about the only topic they want to discuss, or possibly feel able to discuss

I'm still waiting to find out what rocks all those *new* covenant *Christians* are hiding under hundreds of years before Christ was even born and thus before there even was a new covenant. Oddly, my book of Isaiah doesn't make any mention of them, nor can I find evidence of these Christians spoken of concerning the original manuscripts. Bob keeps posting the same response over and over for some incomprehensible reason, but none of the verses he is quoting are even from Isaiah or even old covenant scripture, so they aren't even applicable to his claim.