The Bible is the Word of God?

[Bible Highlighter]

No, that is not what I am doing with God's Testimony. What you shared is exactly the point I was making. God's full testimony is true and inerrant and complete and perfect. He includes what others say for a purpose; but when others, in Scripture, think, speak or do wrongly, He isn't encouraging us to think, speak, or do the same.

Again, you are still not getting what I am trying to say. Please slow down and listen please. Nowhere did I ever say that God is encouraging people to do wrong or to think wrongfully just because God records in His Word bad people doing bad things. When we see peope do wrong in the Bible, God is using that as a lesson for us not to think or do such a thing. I bolded the words "GOD's STORY" to hopefully give you the idea of what I am talking about, but you are not seeing where I am coming from.

God says His Word never returns void, but accomplishes all that He sent it forth to do. If it is in Scripture, does what satan (or others who stand against God) say return accomplishing everything he/they intended it to do? God says His Word is living and active. Should we consider the words of satan and others who stand against God to be living and active? God says He watches over His Word to perform it. Does He watch over the words of satan or others who stand against God to perform them?

While God does not approve of evil, God can use both good and evil for His glory. Did you ever read the Story of Joseph? What evil Joseph's brothers intended against him, God intended it for the purpose of good in the end. Also, God used the devil as a part of Christ being crucified. In fact, it was horrible that the Son had to die for us. It was not morally good that the Son of God had to die. But we sinned, and God was willing to sacrifice His life for us because of His love. But the pain, the suffering, and the evil done upon the Son of Man was absolutely horrific. Should we erase that part of Scripture because evil was done to him? Surely not. It was all a part of God's plan. Remember when Peter wanted to prevent Jesus from going to the cross? Peter loved Jesus did not want Him to die. But Jesus rebuked Peter and even called him Satan in that moment. Anyways, God allows evil to exist in our universe so that we can learn from our mistakes and so that we can make the free will choice to choose God out of love. If we did not know about evil, then we would only be able to choose the good. But God did not want mindless puppets. God records the messes, the bruises, the pain, the evil, all for our learning. God does not approve of evil, but He allows it for love to exist in our universe and He allowed it to show His great love towards us when His Son died upon the cross for us.

Anyways, I say these things not to get you upset or for you to think wrongfully of me, but I say them out of love to you because of the truth.

In any event, if you still continue to disagree (Just know I do love you in the Lord).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

So John "bare record" of the things he saw...writing them down in the book of revelation which means the book of revelation is the word of God as well as the testimony of Jesus.



Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

You are blessed to read this and keep or obey what's found in this book.


Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

So if this book is the word of God, then so are the rest of the books that God inspired man to write regarding the things God said and showed them.

We don't agree on other things, but on this we agree. I like what you pointed out with God's Word here. Bravo. It makes me want to hug ya buddy. A macho man hug (that is).

Blessings to you in the Lord this fine evening.

 

[Not David]

The Bible is the inspired word of God, however you need the Church to know what the Apostles and Early Christians thought. Otherwise you will end up with both super literal and super metaphorical interpretations as you have seen in this thread.

 

[Pneuma3]

Okay. Why do you think God put in His Word those things you quoted? Oh wait. You believe these are not the words of the Lord spoken to us. So we can just ignore them. Throw them out. Again, if God puts things in His Word that talks about an error or a false way, He puts that in His Word so as to convey to the reader not to go down that false path. The story of Cain and Abel. A story of murder. Is this just a record of history to you with no spiritual message? Again, the story teaches us about the correct way to live for God and not the correct way. Do's and don'ts is a part of God's Word. God records men's false ways as a LESSON for us not to do that. For example: If I told you a true story in my own words so as to teach a lesson in doing what is good and not what is bad, the story (While being true) is told by me in a way that can help you the listener to do what is good and right. If the Bible just gave you mindless facts with no lessons in it, then you might be on to something, but you cannot say that all of the words in the Bible are not there by God's design and or they are not the words of God. God can retell a story and THUS, they would be His words. Think.

Side Note:

Also, even in stories you think may not be a story about God (like Judges 19) also has a loose parallel to the life of Christ. Remember, Jesus said that the Scriptures testify of Him. But if you don't think something is Scripture in the Bible, then you will not be able to find Jesus in those parts of your Bible.

and just what does this have to do with anything I wrote. You have addressed nothing and just twisted what I said to suite your own purpose.

Heck even one so great as Moses ADDED/CHANGED what God had said and you seem to think that is ok. While if it is ok to change what God said we might as well all make up our own laws and say God said......

Now try addressing something I actually said instead of twisting what I said to suite your own purpose.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Bible is the inspired word of God, however you need the Church to know what the Apostles and Early Christians thought. Otherwise you will end up with both super literal and super metaphorical interpretations as you have seen in this thread.

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27).

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

If you didn't say there are errors to some degree in the Bible, then I wouldn't be giving you any trouble or flack, my friend. I say what I do because God in everything He does is perfect. This would include His Word given to us today. I believe there is a perfect and divine Word of God and you say there isn't one. It's close but no cigar. I get upset because for me, it is a faith issue. If I knew there was not a perfect Word of God for our day, I would not be a Christian. I know it is perfect by faith because God is perfect. You may not see it that way, but I do, my friend.

May God's blessings be upon you (even if we may disagree).

Jason, I hear what you are saying.

I think where we differ is that I believe the perfect and supernatural living Word of God reaches through what we have printed and touches us with His perfection. It wasn't the printed "Word" that woke me up. It was hearing the "Word" spoken to me through an NIV audio Bible. NIV????? I think the flaws of human translators don't inhibit the Truth of God from reaching my heart, because I believe God is perfect, inerrant, omnipotent and fully capable of delivering the fullness of His Word, regardless of the agenda or personal lens a flawed human translator might have. That doesn't mean that I run to versions where a whole lot of liberty has been taken in translation, but if God could wake me up using a clearly imperfect version (I think you'd agree with the imperfectness of the NIV), then He is fully capable of helping me to see the full Truth once I'm His. Don't you believe that?

Frankly, until I have gotten involved in this discussion and had to do research, I never realized the Wycliffe or Tyndale Bibles were the first translations into English. I never realized what it cost those fine gentlemen. It cost them their lives! And why? Because they were trying to get the Bible into the hands of commoners--like me--against the directives of the corrupt catholic church (which at that time the King of England subscribed to). That puts them in fine company--with other martyrs killed trying to get God's Word to people--in God's Testimony or as you call it God's Story. I know, they are with the group in Rev 6:9. What an honor!

God used an NIV audio Bible to wake me up over 15 years ago, despite the fact that it was a paraphrase version and despite the fact that people left a whole lot of verses out of it in that version. While I prefer the KJV as my primary version, I am always reminded by Him of what He can do. If He didn't, I wouldn't even be among the living.

It wasn't God who had taught me the gifts of the Spirit weren't for today, though there was a time I believed that lie, because of the lies the visible church teaches. That doesn't mean I don't believe God can't reach through and find a soul that is diligently seeking Him (just like He promises) within the context of a virtually dead church. Shoot, God somehow reached out into a seriously broken country club (also known as a northern UMC church) and found one soul who was diligently seeking Him through an NIV audio Bible and woke that 37 year old up despite the fact that the church didn't even believe in being born again and the pastors had never encountered the living God!

Had God been limited by the church I attended or my history or my chosen version, I would have been toast. But, my unlimitedly amazing God, chose to wake me up anyway--despite the fact that I didn't believe such a thing. He turned me into someone who spoke in tongues (private prayer language) and even taught me to use it when I prayed for people and why and then taught me that the lie I had been indoctrinated with about healing evangelists being frauds wasn't true. Not only that, He used me to lay hands on people and heal them.

So, where you want or need others to feel the same way you do, I don't. God validates what I believe, if it is true, and He breaks off the lie in a very living and clear way--as long as I am willing to listen. He wanted to show me something and over the course of the discussion, He has validated this Truth in ways that I couldn't have imagined (as He usually does).

I wish you could really truly know how much I love The Scriptures! They truly are God's flawless and living Testimony to man! This discussion, or that you think I de-value God's Word or slight God, doesn't lessen how much I love the Scriptures. I have and will continue to listen to my NKJV audio Bible while I sleep and through most of my day while I walk around doing what I have to do. His Scriptures are perfect and do exactly what God sent them forth to do. I absolutely love The Scriptures, because they brought me to the living person of the Word of God, Jesus Christ, and they contain words that are spirit and are life! I stand in awe of Him!

So what you take as a slight to God, I see as a Testimony of God's power to work through the imperfect translation and bring perfect life anyway--just like He takes an imperfect individual and promises to make me perfect because He is perfect.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Every word in your Bible is Scripture and is profitable for our learning and training in righteousness.

Jason, I think I understand what is happening. I wholeheartedly agree with you here. In fact, this is a paraphrase of Scripture!

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

So John "bare record" of the things he saw...writing them down in the book of revelation which means the book of revelation is the word of God as well as the testimony of Jesus.



Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

You are blessed to read this and keep or obey what's found in this book.


Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

So if this book is the word of God, then so are the rest of the books that God inspired man to write regarding the things God said and showed them.

So you don't see the jump you made?

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw." (Rev 1:1-2)

Who or what does John refer to repeatedly in the Scriptures attributed to Him as the Word of God? Keep in mind that a book known as the Bible didn't exist at that point. Here is what John said, for example:

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God." (John 1:1-2) "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us..." (John 1:14)​

The Word of God is Jesus Christ whom John did bare record of. John confirms that in his Gospel.

The Testimony of Jesus Christ is what Jesus said or had His messenger tell John.

"and of all the things that he saw" is referring to all the different views that John was given.

Revelation 1:2 speaks of three different pieces (Jesus, His Testimony, and what John saw), not the restating of one piece.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

The Bible is the inspired word of God, however you need the Church to know what the Apostles and Early Christians thought. Otherwise you will end up with both super literal and super metaphorical interpretations as you have seen in this thread.

David, if it had been for the church I attended, I never would have known what the Apostles and early Christians thought. If it had been for the church I attended, I never would have been woken up by God in the first place. If it had been for the church I attended, I would still be believing that people aren't really born again, that healing and tongues aren't for today, that infant baptism to check the block is enough, and the list goes on.

I thank God that He is fully capable of calling us, waking us up and leading us into all Truth, regardless of where we attend church or even if we don't but are diligently seeking Him.

I love to go back and compare when there are discrepancies; but even then there are people who approached things differently. Actually, even recorded in Scripture, there are people who approached things differently.

Ultimately, God knows His Truth and can lead His true children and church into all Truth, despite every attempt to corrupt, distort, or destroy the church and God's unadulterated Testimony.

We all need the supernatural entity of the true church that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, transcends what we see in visible form. Jesus is coming back to marry His true Church, not John Andrews or David Cabrera or any others who have contributed to this discussion. If it weren't for God maintaining the true church and His Scriptures despite all the human failings, we would all be toast. Yay, God!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, I hear what you are saying.

I think where we differ is that I believe the perfect and supernatural living Word of God reaches through what we have printed and touches us with His perfection. It wasn't the printed "Word" that woke me up. It was hearing the "Word" spoken to me through an NIV audio Bible. NIV????? I think the flaws of human translators don't inhibit the Truth of God from reaching my heart, because I believe God is perfect, inerrant, omnipotent and fully capable of delivering the fullness of His Word, regardless of the agenda or personal lens a flawed human translator might have. That doesn't mean that I run to versions where a whole lot of liberty has been taken in translation, but if God could wake me up using a clearly imperfect version (I think you'd agree with the imperfectness of the NIV), then He is fully capable of helping me to see the full Truth once I'm His. Don't you believe that?

Well, I am KJV (as you know), but I am not one of those KJV folk who is going to tell you to only read the KJV because it is the easiest Bible to understand. It is not. While I believe the 1769 KJV is the perfect and divine Word of God for our day, I also believe it is essential for a Christian to use Modern Translations to compare it with the KJV because the KJV is written in 1600's English (Which is really hard for me to understand many times). I like using the NLT when I read a passage in the KJV. If the NLT says something that conflicts with the KJV, I side with the KJV. I do this because there are corruptions that are for the worse and not for the better in Modern Translations. But they can be extremely helpful in updating the 1600's English in the KJV.

But yes. I agree. GOD can talk to a person using Modern Translations because many times they are saying the exact same thing in the KJV (and the original languages). That is why I said before that a person could expound on the Scriptures in their own words on what a Bible verse or passage says (As long as they are not claiming with authority that a particular word in the KJV or the original languages should not be in there or is an error). But yes. I believe a person can be saved by Modern Translations. I always believed that. The problem is one of authority and in perfecting one's walk of faith. If I have one Word of God as my authority, I am walking 100% by faith in it (With me not questioning what is in God's Word but with me accepting ALL of it).

Frankly, until I have gotten involved in this discussion and had to do research, I never realized the Wycliffe or Tyndale Bibles were the first translations into English. I never realized what it cost those fine gentlemen. It cost them their lives! And why? Because they were trying to get the Bible into the hands of commoners--like me--against the directives of the corrupt catholic church (which at that time the King of England subscribed to).

Yes, they were taking a step on a journey towards the 1769 KJV in being formed. Today, this version of the Bible is still one of the highly trusted and attacked Bibles for our day. These men started a process over time that would lead men of God to trust their Bible by faith wholly. Their sacrifice should not be forgotten; And I am sure it will not be by the Lord our God who is just and good.

That puts them in fine company--with other martyrs killed trying to get God's Word to people--in God's Testimony or as you call it God's Story. I know, they are with the group in Rev 6:9. What an honor!

Indeed.

God used an NIV audio Bible to wake me up over 15 years ago, despite the fact that it was a paraphrase version and despite the fact that people left a whole lot of verses out of it in that version. While I prefer the KJV as my primary version, I am always reminded by Him of what He can do. If He didn't, I wouldn't even be among the living.

Was it "Inspired by: - The Bible Experience" ?

It wasn't God who had taught me the gifts of the Spirit weren't for today, though there was a time I believed that lie, because of the lies the visible church teaches. That doesn't mean I don't believe God can't reach through and find a soul that is diligently seeking Him (just like He promises) within the context of a virtually dead church.

I believe God's gifts are for today. As for tongues: I am still on the fence on that one. I see good arguments for both sides and I am undecided. One of these days I would like to take a month or two in prayer and fasting and seeking the Scriptures to find the truth on this one. No one person can make that decision for me. God and His Word and intense desire in seeking the truth will be my guide for sure.

Shoot, God somehow reached out into a seriously broken country club (also known as a northern UMC church) and found one soul who was diligently seeking Him through an NIV audio Bible and woke that 37 year old up despite the fact that the church didn't even believe in being born again and the pastors had never encountered the living God!

That is really weird that they don't believe in being born again. Sorry to hear about your experience. Most churches today are not teaching believers to be disciples of Jesus, but they are preaching feel good messages and doing altar calls. They are also preaching sermons on how they need to give more money to them (so they can keep the lights running on their big building). These churches also do not realize that they are promoting fellowship with unbelievers because they invite unbelievers to their church to worship God with them. This is not something we see in the New Testament. Fellowship was only among believers and it was generally in each other's homes most of the time.

Had God been limited by the church I attended or my history or my chosen version, I would have been toast. But, my unlimitedly amazing God, chose to wake me up anyway--despite the fact that I didn't believe such a thing. He turned me into someone who spoke in tongues (private prayer language) and even taught me to use it when I prayed for people and why and then taught me that the lie I had been indoctrinated with about healing evangelists being frauds wasn't true. Not only that, He used me to lay hands on people and heal them.

I am glad for the miracles of God in people's lives today. But I think it is just as equally (if not more important) that they live holy and righteous and teach others to do so. If a believer is not living holy and they are living unrighteous and they are promoting a sin and still be saved doctrine, then it is highly probable that those miracles may not be of God. I say this with great fear so as not to offend the genuine working of the Spirit in people's lives because I cannot know every instance of how the Spirit works always in people's lives. But what I do know is the fruits of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, etc. These fruits in most cases should also be visible with a person's miracles if they have them. I believe the two should go hand in hand.

On the other end of the spectrum by so called churches: I have seen some stuff in a video that is really disturbing that is not of God. Have you ever seen the video series called "Kundalini Warning by Andrew Strom" on YouTube?

So, where you want or need others to feel the same way you do, I don't. God validates what I believe, if it is true, and He breaks off the lie in a very living and clear way--as long as I am willing to listen. He wanted to show me something and over the course of the discussion, He has validated this Truth in ways that I couldn't have imagined (as He usually does).

God has done the same for me using His Word.

I wish you could really truly know how much I love The Scriptures! They truly are God's flawless and living Testimony to man! This discussion, or that you think I de-value God's Word or slight God, doesn't lessen how much I love the Scriptures. I have and will continue to listen to my NKJV audio Bible while I sleep and through most of my day while I walk around doing what I have to do. His Scriptures are perfect and do exactly what God sent them forth to do. I absolutely love The Scriptures, because they brought me to the living person of the Word of God, Jesus Christ, and they contain words that are spirit and are life! I stand in awe of Him!

So what you take as a slight to God, I see as a Testimony of God's power to work through the imperfect translation and bring perfect life anyway--just like He takes an imperfect individual and promises to make me perfect because He is perfect.

I am not denying that GOD cannot use imperfect translations of the Bible to help believers. Truth can still be conveyed through these imperfect translations. But there still has to be one Word of God that is nailed down for us to have an authority in with regards to every single word that is in our Bibles. I say this because GOD is perfect and naturally His Word would be perfect somewhere because He is perfect. For the Word is a reflection of Him.

 

[Not David]

David, if it had been for the church I attended, I never would have known what the Apostles and early Christians thought. If it had been for the church I attended, I never would have been woken up by God in the first place. If it had been for the church I attended, I would still be believing that people aren't really born again, that healing and tongues aren't for today, that infant baptism to check the block is enough, and the list goes on.

I thank God that He is fully capable of calling us, waking us up and leading us into all Truth, regardless of where we attend church or even if we don't but are diligently seeking Him.

I love to go back and compare when there are discrepancies; but even then there are people who approached things differently. Actually, even recorded in Scripture, there are people who approached things differently.

Ultimately, God knows His Truth and can lead His true children and church into all Truth, despite every attempt to corrupt, distort, or destroy the church and God's unadulterated Testimony.

We all need the supernatural entity of the true church that, by the power of the Holy Spirit, transcends what we see in visible form. Jesus is coming back to marry His true Church, not John Andrews or David Cabrera or any others who have contributed to this discussion. If it weren't for God maintaining the true church and His Scriptures despite all the human failings, we would all be toast. Yay, God!

Jesus said that the gates of Hades would not destroy his Church, and Paul said that the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.
Christians believed the same thing for a long time until the Reformation. And now there are multiple churches with different ideas about the Bible. Which one has the Holy Spirit?

Think about that.

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Jesus said that the gates of Hades would not destroy his Church, and Paul said that the Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.
Christians believed the same thing for a long time until the Reformation. And now there are multiple churches with different ideas about the Bible. Which one has the Holy Spirit?

Think about that.

What makes you think the Holy Spirit is limited to one "visible church body"? Shoot, God found me despite a virtually dead (more like a country club) northern United Methodist Church where the pastor had a very unsupernatural pastoral calling, didn't even know what being born again was when it happened to me, and whose bishop practiced witchcraft in her meetings and believed she had new revelation that superceded Scripture. But, then, God found Saul of Tarsus, too. He didn't just stick with those who the 11 remaining Apostles preached to and laid hands on. Given my experience with God, I don't believe the Apostle Paul and myself are the only ones who came a very different way.

 

[miknik5]

Yes, Jesus is the Living Word (John 1:1) and the Bible is the written Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17). All scripture is inspired by God-God breathed.

And His written word will not contradict His Spirit
And His Spirit will not contradict His Word

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Well, I am KJV (as you know), but I am not one of those KJV folk who is going to tell you to only read the KJV because it is the easiest Bible to understand. It is not. While I believe the 1769 KJV is the perfect and divine Word of God for our day, I also believe it is essential for a Christian to use Modern Translations to compare it with the KJV because the KJV is written in 1600's English (Which is really hard for me to understand many times). I like using the NLT when I read a passage in the KJV. If the NLT says something that conflicts with the KJV, I side with the KJV. I do this because there are corruptions that are for the worse and not for the better in Modern Translations. But they can be extremely helpful in updating the 1600's English in the KJV.

But yes. I agree. GOD can talk to a person using Modern Translations because many times they are saying the exact same thing in the KJV (and the original languages). That is why I said before that a person could expound on the Scriptures in their own words on what a Bible verse or passage says (As long as they are not claiming with authority that a particular word in the KJV or the original languages should not be in there or is an error). But yes. I believe a person can be saved by Modern Translations. I always believed that. The problem is one of authority and in perfecting one's walk of faith. If I have one Word of God as my authority, I am walking 100% by faith in it (With me not questioning what is in God's Word but with me accepting ALL of it).



Yes, they were taking a step on a journey towards the 1769 KJV in being formed. Today, this version of the Bible is still one of the highly trusted and attacked Bibles for our day. These men started a process over time that would lead men of God to trust their Bible by faith wholly. Their sacrifice should not be forgotten; And I am sure it will not be by the Lord our God who is just and good.



Indeed.



Was it "Inspired by: - The Bible Experience" ?

I believe God's gifts are for today. As for tongues: I am still on the fence on that one. I see good arguments for both sides and I am undecided. One of these days I would like to take a month or two in prayer and fasting and seeking the Scriptures to find the truth on this one. No one person can make that decision for me. God and His Word and intense desire in seeking the truth will be my guide for sure.



That is really weird that they don't believe in being born again. Sorry to hear about your experience. Most churches today are not teaching believers to be disciples of Jesus, but they are preaching feel good messages and doing altar calls. They are also preaching sermons on how they need to give more money to them (so they can keep the lights running on their big building). These churches also do not realize that they are promoting fellowship with unbelievers because they invite unbelievers to their church to worship God with them. This is not something we see in the New Testament. Fellowship was only among believers and it was generally in each other's homes most of the time.



I am glad for the miracles of God in people's lives today. But I think it is just as equally (if not more important) that they live holy and righteous and teach others to do so. If a believer is not living holy and they are living unrighteous and they are promoting a sin and still be saved doctrine, then it is highly probable that those miracles may not be of God. I say this with great fear so as not to offend the genuine working of the Spirit in people's lives because I cannot know every instance of how the Spirit works always in people's lives. But what I do know is the fruits of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, etc. These fruits in most cases should also be visible with a person's miracles if they have them. I believe the two should go hand in hand.

On the other end of the spectrum by so called churches: I have seen some stuff in a video that is really disturbing that is not of God. Have you ever seen the video series called "Kundalini Warning by Andrew Strom" on YouTube?



God has done the same for me using His Word.



I am not denying that GOD cannot use imperfect translations of the Bible to help believers. Truth can still be conveyed through these imperfect translations. But there still has to be one Word of God that is nailed down for us to have an authority in with regards to every single word that is in our Bibles. I say this because GOD is perfect and naturally His Word would be perfect somewhere because He is perfect. For the Word is a reflection of Him.

RE: Bible experience: Funny. No. I expressly wanted a non-dramatized version, so I was hearing the words not someone's thinking of how it was said.

RE: Perfect and Authoritative: I see the perfect as what He originally gave and I see the perfect in how God makes sure that if we are doing what He says--"walking in the Spirit" and "diligently seeking Him", then He will ensure the perfect Word is in us and that transcends anything and everything we have today. I don't question the Scriptures. I really don't. I question translations when I feel a check in my Spirit or when God causes me to question the translation for a particular reason. My faith is squarely on God and in God. The Scriptures are never in question when I question a word choice here or there in a translation. You may see it that way, but I don't. I'm the one that has to live with that. If I'm wrong in whose leading me to question those things, then I've got bigger problems than we can address here.

RE: I don't run to the fringe of experiences, so I don't chase all these different people who claim all these extra things. I see too many people who let their flesh enter into their prophetic and it concerns me. But, I don't get rid of the gift, because it isn't always correctly used. Instead of stopping the giftings, pastors should be teaching people they don't have to accept everything someone speaks and how to manage that safely as individuals.

RE: Gifts and Tongues: Not trying to start a debate and I don't really care whether you would believe my testimony or not; but why would God just stop giving one gift? When would He have stopped giving it? Did God miss that Scripture eventually come to us and a whole section would be dead words if those gifts were done away with before we got them? In your personal seeking on tongues, please note that there are different kinds of tongues as you read through the Scriptures. Also please limit your search to studying the Scriptures.

 

[Not David]

What makes you think the Holy Spirit is limited to one "visible church body"? Shoot, God found me despite a virtually dead (more like a country club) northern United Methodist Church where the pastor had a very unsupernatural pastoral calling, didn't even know what being born again was when it happened to me, and whose bishop practiced witchcraft in her meetings and believed she had new revelation that superceded Scripture. But, then, God found Saul of Tarsus, too. He didn't just stick with those who the 11 remaining Apostles preached to and laid hands on. Given my experience with God, I don't believe the Apostle Paul and myself are the only ones who came a very different way.

I also had the Holy Spirit when I was in another church. But tell me, why wouldn't you let your understanding of the Truth be completed if possible?

 

[Zoii]

Yes, Jesus is the Living Word (John 1:1) and the Bible is the written Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17). All scripture is inspired by God-God breathed.

Timothy doesn't say that all words in the Bible are God-breathed

 

[Zoii]

That is an interesting perspective. I actually feel sorry for you. You can't trust anything the Bible says. I'm glad I can.

Heck, I think he's being honest and echoing what billions of others say.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

RE: Bible experience: Funny. No. I expressly wanted a non-dramatized version, so I was hearing the words not someone's thinking of how it was said.

The Bible Experience Audio Bible is actually pretty good. Well, only the readings of Jesus are good. If you ever decided to buy it one day, I would only get the New Testament version of it. Some of the voice casting is really bad or cringe worthy; And only the voice for Jesus is really excellent in my opinion.

As for Dramatized Audio Bibles in general:
Well, there are things I have caught in dramatized audio Bibles before that I would not have caught with a normal reading. So I wouldn't be so quick to judge them in being inferior (if that is what you are implying).

RE: Perfect and Authoritative: I see the perfect as what He originally gave and I see the perfect in how God makes sure that if we are doing what He says--"walking in the Spirit" and "diligently seeking Him", then He will ensure the perfect Word is in us and that transcends anything and everything we have today.

I don't see that teaching anywhere in Scripture ("Whereby the perfect word" exists in us - which implies what you said before about how WE can determine what is an error or what is not an error in Scripture). What I do see is that GOD is able to communicate in our language just fine. We see it in Acts chapter 2. People were able to understand each other (even though they spoke in different languages). Meaning, God is more than able to provide a perfect form of communication for the people of today. People of today do not speak or write Biblical Greek. Religious men put together a religious dictionary and we have to take it by faith that they got it right with that language. This religious dictionary does not claim to be the inspired words of God, either. Also, Jesus says,

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Matthew 24:35).

Many Modern translations attack the words of Jesus even. Also, if His Word only existed in a language people do not speak or write anymore (i.e. Biblical Greek), then those words could be viewed as passing away (technically speaking). Generally they may not have passed away in your view, but Jesus said,

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18).

As you are probably are aware: Jots and tittles are like the crossing our "t"'s and the dotting of our "i"'s. Jesus said that not one jot or tittle (the smallest pen stroke) will not pass away until all shall be fulfilled. There are prophecies that need to be fulfilled in both the OT and the NT (as I am sure you would agree). These Scriptures would not be any good for anyone if nobody could understand them clearly in their own language or if it was sitting in some secret religious vault somewhere. God is interested in spreading His words to all nations and not hiding them in some secret vault or hiding them in just a select few people who decide what is true and what is not true in some imperfect Bible. God is not imperfect, so by logic, we can conclude that everything He does is perfect because He is perfect. Maybe you need to discover what that perfect Bible is today in our world language. I am not saying for you it is the KJV, but I am saying for you to pray, and seek the truth, and you will find it. There is a perfect Bible for our world language today. For God is not the God of the dead, but He is the God of the living. His words live and reign among the living who are able to read His words simply and clearly. People are not going to be without excuse because they did not study Hebrew and Greek.

I don't question the Scriptures. I really don't. I question translations when I feel a check in my Spirit or when God causes me to question the translation for a particular reason.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but if my memory serves me correctly, I thought you said there are errors even in the original manuscripts.

My faith is squarely on God and in God. The Scriptures are never in question when I question a word choice here or there in a translation.

It is true that not all translations say the same thing. Mark 16:9-20 is missing in many (if not most of the) Modern Translations out there. This is why I see them as an attack upon the KJV. The KJV always seems to get it right every time. For if an enemy of the faith were out to subtly destroy God's Word, He would start by removing certain verses here and there. He would change certain words just ever so slightly here and there. The attack would be subtle. Almost unnoticeable. The Trinity, the blood of Jesus, the teaching on righteous living, and Jesus being God are all attacked.... just so ever subtly (like a few termites eating away at a house).

RE: I don't run to the fringe of experiences, so I don't chase all these different people who claim all these extra things. I see too many people who let their flesh enter into their prophetic and it concerns me. But, I don't get rid of the gift, because it isn't always correctly used. Instead of stopping the giftings, pastors should be teaching people they don't have to accept everything someone speaks and how to manage that safely as individuals.

Andrew Strom's YouTube video called the Kundalini Warning is worth checking out. Please be warned, it may disturb you greatly. But for me: It was definitely an eye opener that I believe every Christian should be aware of these days.

RE: Gifts and Tongues: Not trying to start a debate and I don't really care whether you would believe my testimony or not; but why would God just stop giving one gift? When would He have stopped giving it? Did God miss that Scripture eventually come to us and a whole section would be dead words if those gifts were done away with before we got them? In your personal seeking on tongues, please note that there are different kinds of tongues as you read through the Scriptures. Also please limit your search to studying the Scriptures.

I am not doubting that you believe that you speak in tongues and that it is very real to you and that such a thing happens for you. I just need to know if it is Biblical, and for me, it will take lots of time in examining both sides of the debate and weigh in the evidence with Scripture. For a while I was on the fence for a long time in regards to ECT (Eternal Conscious Torment) and CI (Conditional Immortality). For a while, I believed both to be a possibility. I had a long list of verses for each side. Both arguments seemed convincing. But with enough study and praying and being patient in waiting upon the Lord to reveal that truth to me, He came through for me. I now believe Conditional Immortality is true both biblically and morally. Scripture is what convinced me ultimately in the end, and it was not an overnight decision, either. The weight of evidence of Scripture in favor for Conditional Immortality was too numerous to ignore (and I have now come to believe in the belief that is called: "Dualistic Conditional Immortality," which basically says that "hell" is a real place of torment that the wicked to (after they die), but in the end, they will eventually be destroyed or erased from existence in the Lake of Fire - after the Judgment). But before God revealed to me the truth on this topic, I was on the fence (with two long lists of verses). This is kind of where I am at with the topic of speaking in tongues and with new prophecy. For me, the Bible is a closed book. No new words should be added to it. Revelation has a warning not to add any new words to Scripture. So if tongues is biblical, it would have to be in regards to just changing what you would already say in your own language to God in prayer and not so much a new prophecy exactly. For we have all the prophecy we need in the Bible. For if someone comes up with a new prophecy, should we add those words to the Bible? That is my concern with the concept of prophecy for our day.

 

[onefollows]

2 Timothy 3:16-17

I agree with the Scripture
16 Every scripture inspired of God [is] also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.

17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.
But it doesn't say that the Bible is the Word of God. It refers to SCRIPTURE! According to my reading of the Bible there is only ONE Word of God, His name is Jesus. So why is this important? It's important because if you read Scripture with the understanding that the Bible is the Word of God, then the Bible points to itself, but if you understand that Jesus is the Word of God, then the Bible points to Him, which is what God designed it to do.

 

[Albion]

I agree with the Scripture
16 Every scripture inspired of God [is] also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.

17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.
But it doesn't say that the Bible is the Word of God. It refers to SCRIPTURE!

That's right, but "The Bible" is just what we came (much later) to call the compilation of the books that we, the church, consider to be Holy Scripture.

According to my reading of the Bible there is only ONE Word of God, His name is Jesus.

In that case, you've missed all the Bible verses which refer to Scripture as the "word of God," (whether capitalized or uncapitalized). There are more of these than there are Biblical references to Christ as the Word.

 

[onefollows]

That's right, but "The Bible" is just what we came (much later) to call the compilation of the books that we, the church, consider to be Holy Scripture.


In that case, you've missed all the Bible verses which refer to Scripture as the "word of God," (whether capitalized or uncapitalized). There are more of these than there are Biblical references to Christ as the Word.

Would you mind showing me some examples of the Bible being called the Word of God please.