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That is an interesting perspective. I actually feel sorry for you. You can't trust anything the Bible says. I'm glad I can.
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The Bible is the Word of God?
- Thread starter Johnny4ChristJesus
- Start date
That is an interesting perspective. I actually feel sorry for you. You can't trust anything the Bible says. I'm glad I can.
You keep adding to what the scriptures actually say. They say NOTHING of a bible being inspired, they only speak of the scriptures as being inspired as as I have said the is scripture in the bible, but not everything in the bible is scripture.
There are tares among the wheat and we need the Holy spirit to weed out the tares.
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I agree the scriptures are God inspired, however not everything in the bible is scripture. You are adding to what the scriptures actually say then telling people they are not spiritually awake enough to understand YOUR addition to what the scriptures actually say.
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According to the Jewish study Bible pages 1835 & 1838
The Jews interpreted scripture by using scripture, thus they turned the scripture over and over to find new truths from examining the scriptures and reordering the old scriptures. Thus when they came upon problem scriptures they would translate those scripture according to their own interpretation and took sides in theological and legal controversies, expanded the narrative and legal material all the while purporting to merely convey the meaning of the text they translated.
Thus in ancient times it was the responsibility of the translator not to only translate the text, but to render it comprehensible to those who could not read the sacred writing themselves. Thus many of their interpretation of the scripture became a part of the scriptures
Gaius (AD175-200) who speaks of the source of corruptions that survive in the early papyri: "The Divine Scriptures these heretics have audaciously corrupted. Laying violent hands upon them, under pretense of correcting them."
One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned.
One of the oldest copies of the Bible which dates back to the fifth century is the Codex Bezae, of which the Britannica writes: "Codex Bezae… has a text that is very different from other witnesses. Codex Bezae has many distinctive longer and shorter readings and seems almost to be a separate edition. Its 'Acts, for example, is one-tenth longer than usual’". How can we have a Bible that is said to be "almost… a separate edition"?
St. Jerome when he wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).
Eusebius writes of a number of sects of Christians of his day: "Therefore they have laid their hands boldly upon the Divine Scriptures, alleging that they have corrected them. That I am not speaking falsely of them in this matter, whoever wishes may learn. For if any one will collect their respective copies, and compare them one with another, he will find that they differ greatly. Those of Asclepiades, for example, do not agree with those of Theodotus. And many of these can be obtained, because their disciples have assiduously written the corrections, as they call them, that is the corruptions, of each of them. Again, those of Hermophilus do not agree with these, and those of Apollonides are not consistent with themselves. For you can compare those prepared by them at an earlier date with those which they corrupted later, and you will find them widely different. But how daring this offense is, it is not likely that they themselves are ignorant. For either they do not believe that the Divine Scriptures were spoken by the Holy Spirit, and thus are unbelievers, or else they think themselves wiser than the Holy Spirit, and in that case what else are they than demoniacs? For they cannot deny the commission of the crime, since the copies have been written by their own hands. For they did not receive such Scriptures from their instructors, nor can they produce any copies from which they were transcribed".
Corruption within the NIV.
1 Pet 2:11-20
Original Text
"Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God."
(NIV)
"Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.
(NIV)
Verses 13-14 and 17-18, which instruct the reader to submit themselves to the ordinances of man and honor the kings and governors was put there to exert political and social control over the people by the secular authorities of the Roman Empire.
Conybeare then goes on and quotes the biblical scholar Dr. C.R. Gregory, and writes: "In the case just examined (Matthew 28:19), it is to be noticed that not a single manuscript or ancient version has preserved to us the true reading. But that is not surprising, for as Dr. C.R. Gregory, one of the greatest of our textual critics, reminds us, 'The Greek MSS of the Text of the New Testament were often altered by the scribes, who put into them the readings which were familiar to them, and which they held to be the right readings' (Canon and Text of the New Testament, 1907, p. 424)".
Conybeare then writes: "These facts speak for themselves. Our Greek texts, not only of the Gospels, but of the Epistles as well, have been revised and interpolated by orthodox copyists. We can trace their perversions of the text in a few cases, with the aid of patristic citations and ancient versions. But there must remain many passages which have been so corrected, but where we cannot today expose the fraud".
In the publication, The Fraternal Visitor, this assessment was made concerning the falsification of the scriptures: "Codex B (Vaticanus) would be the best of all existing MSS, …if it were completely preserved, less damaged, (less) corrected, more easily legible, and not altered by a later hand in more than two thousand places. Eusebius, therefore, is not without grounds for accusing the adherents of Athanasius and the newly-risen doctrine of the trinity of falsifying the Bible even more than once" (Fraternal Visitor 1924, p. 148; translated from Christadelphian Monatshefte).
The Jews interpreted scripture by using scripture, thus they turned the scripture over and over to find new truths from examining the scriptures and reordering the old scriptures. Thus when they came upon problem scriptures they would translate those scripture according to their own interpretation and took sides in theological and legal controversies, expanded the narrative and legal material all the while purporting to merely convey the meaning of the text they translated.
Thus in ancient times it was the responsibility of the translator not to only translate the text, but to render it comprehensible to those who could not read the sacred writing themselves. Thus many of their interpretation of the scripture became a part of the scriptures
Gaius (AD175-200) who speaks of the source of corruptions that survive in the early papyri: "The Divine Scriptures these heretics have audaciously corrupted. Laying violent hands upon them, under pretense of correcting them."
One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned.
One of the oldest copies of the Bible which dates back to the fifth century is the Codex Bezae, of which the Britannica writes: "Codex Bezae… has a text that is very different from other witnesses. Codex Bezae has many distinctive longer and shorter readings and seems almost to be a separate edition. Its 'Acts, for example, is one-tenth longer than usual’". How can we have a Bible that is said to be "almost… a separate edition"?
St. Jerome when he wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).
Eusebius writes of a number of sects of Christians of his day: "Therefore they have laid their hands boldly upon the Divine Scriptures, alleging that they have corrected them. That I am not speaking falsely of them in this matter, whoever wishes may learn. For if any one will collect their respective copies, and compare them one with another, he will find that they differ greatly. Those of Asclepiades, for example, do not agree with those of Theodotus. And many of these can be obtained, because their disciples have assiduously written the corrections, as they call them, that is the corruptions, of each of them. Again, those of Hermophilus do not agree with these, and those of Apollonides are not consistent with themselves. For you can compare those prepared by them at an earlier date with those which they corrupted later, and you will find them widely different. But how daring this offense is, it is not likely that they themselves are ignorant. For either they do not believe that the Divine Scriptures were spoken by the Holy Spirit, and thus are unbelievers, or else they think themselves wiser than the Holy Spirit, and in that case what else are they than demoniacs? For they cannot deny the commission of the crime, since the copies have been written by their own hands. For they did not receive such Scriptures from their instructors, nor can they produce any copies from which they were transcribed".
Corruption within the NIV.
1 Pet 2:11-20
Original Text
"Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God."
(NIV)
"Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king. Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.
(NIV)
Verses 13-14 and 17-18, which instruct the reader to submit themselves to the ordinances of man and honor the kings and governors was put there to exert political and social control over the people by the secular authorities of the Roman Empire.
Conybeare then goes on and quotes the biblical scholar Dr. C.R. Gregory, and writes: "In the case just examined (Matthew 28:19), it is to be noticed that not a single manuscript or ancient version has preserved to us the true reading. But that is not surprising, for as Dr. C.R. Gregory, one of the greatest of our textual critics, reminds us, 'The Greek MSS of the Text of the New Testament were often altered by the scribes, who put into them the readings which were familiar to them, and which they held to be the right readings' (Canon and Text of the New Testament, 1907, p. 424)".
Conybeare then writes: "These facts speak for themselves. Our Greek texts, not only of the Gospels, but of the Epistles as well, have been revised and interpolated by orthodox copyists. We can trace their perversions of the text in a few cases, with the aid of patristic citations and ancient versions. But there must remain many passages which have been so corrected, but where we cannot today expose the fraud".
In the publication, The Fraternal Visitor, this assessment was made concerning the falsification of the scriptures: "Codex B (Vaticanus) would be the best of all existing MSS, …if it were completely preserved, less damaged, (less) corrected, more easily legible, and not altered by a later hand in more than two thousand places. Eusebius, therefore, is not without grounds for accusing the adherents of Athanasius and the newly-risen doctrine of the trinity of falsifying the Bible even more than once" (Fraternal Visitor 1924, p. 148; translated from Christadelphian Monatshefte).
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the Lying pen of the scribes
Let me start by saying that all scripture is inspired by God but not everything in our bibles is scripture.
A few examples:
Jeremiah 8:8 speaks about the lying pen of the scribes adding to the Law of Moses.
Written in the book of the Law of Moses we read
Numbers 30:2
2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
Deuteronomy 23:21
21 When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.
However, according to Jesus we are not to swear at all, but let our communication be yea, yea, or nay, nay.
Matthew 5:33-37
33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Jesus’ words are a total contradiction to what is written in Numbers 30:2 and Deuteronomy 23:21.
A couple of things to take note of in what Jesus says in Matthew 5:33-37.
First, Jesus does not say it is written, but says ye have heard that it hath been said.
Jesus purposely chose the words ye have heard that it hath been said instead of it is written to show us that the law of forswearing comes from the lying pen of the Scribes and is an addition to the law of Moses, but attributed to Moses by those same Scribes.
Secondly, some people have tried to tell me that this is only to show the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant. However, if this is the case then God changed His mind about what He wants from us and if God changes His mind about what He wants from us then His word is not steadfast. And if Gods word is not steadfast what assurances do we have that God will not change His mind again and again?
Thirdly, Jesus says whatsoever is more then yea and nay cometh from EVIL. So if forswearing ourselves came from God as Numbers 30:2 and Deuteronomy 23:21 suggest then Jesus would be saying God is EVIL or what God speaks is EVIL.
So we are left with a choice, we can either believe God changes His mind concerning what He wants from us, making His word not steadfast, or we can believe what Jeremiah stated in 8:8 that the lying pen of the Scribes have changed Gods laws into lies.
We see this same lying pen of the Scribe in the horrendous eye for an eye doctrine that the Scribes attributed to Moses in Exodus 21:21-24, Leviticus 24:19-20 and Deuteronomy 19:21
Exodus 21:22-24
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Leviticus 24:19-20
19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; 20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.
Deuteronomy 19:21
21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
But Jesus says that ye resist not evil.
Matthew 5:38-42
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Jesus’ words again are in total contradiction to what is written in Exodus 21:21-24, Leviticus 24:19-20 and Deuteronomy 19:21.
Take note of what Jesus says in Matthew 5:38-42
Again, Jesus does not say it is written, but says ye have heard that it hath been said.
And again, Jesus purposely chose the words ye have heard that it hath been said instead of it is written to show us that the law of an eye for an eye comes from the lying pen of the Scribes and is an addition to the law of Moses, but attributed to Moses by those same Scribes.
Matthew 5:43-45
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Take note that again Jesus uses the same manner of speech, Jesus does not say it is written, but says ye have heard that it hath been said. Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Oh, oh Houston we have a problem.
Nowhere is it stated in the bible that we are to hate our enemy.
Did Jesus make a blunder when he said you have heard that it hath been said?
NO, absolutely, NO, Jesus did not blunder when he said this.
So what is going on?
Everything else Jesus referenced in these sets of scripture is found written somewhere in the Law of Moses being an addition by the lying pen of the Scribes, but attributed to Moses. So why do we not find the term hate thine enemy also recorded?
Most probably, because the scribes deleted it from their writings after Jesus said love your enemies.
No matter how one looks at it, forswearing, eye for an eye and hate thine enemy are a total contradiction to what Jesus tells us.
We read in Revelation a warning to anyone who would add to or take away from the prophesy of the book of Revelation. Now if God saw fit to put this warning in that book is it not obvious He knew that people would be tempted to do just that?
Just because God does not want people to do something does not mean people won’t do it.
And history proves that man has tampered with the scripture.
Witness 1Jn.5:7
Witness Mk.16:9-20
Neither of which are in the oldest and best manuscripts.
Both are an interpolation; added to scripture at a later date.
Some might not like it but those are the FACTS.
Some people have told me that the bible is the word of God and everything in it is of Him and by Him and that He most surely could have protected it all through history.
First let me say there is only ONE WORD OF GOD, that being Jesus Christ and everything that proceeds from His mouth. Therefore the bible cannot be the word of God as history and scripture shows man has tampered with it, adding to it and taking away from it.
Are you getting the picture? Not everything in our bibles is inspired by God or scripture. Man has tampered so much with the scriptures, adding and taking away from them, that the bibles today bring in much confusion. My suggestion to you and everyone else is to take every thought (especially the thoughts recorded in the bible) captive to Christ and see what He says about them.
Some people ask concerning some of the things they have read in the bible concerning the OT.
Things such as God commanding the killings of innocent men, women and children.
Well there are 3 outlooks on this; one is abhorrent, the other 2 are most probable.
1 God actually commanded people to do these things (this is the abhorrent one)
2 People misunderstood what God was actually saying and literally did what He was saying when He was speaking spiritually.
3 The lying pen of the scribes added to the scriptures saying God said such and such when God never said anything of the kind.
We read is scripture
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. 23And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: 24For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them
We also read
12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
What people believe about God is what they write about Him, it does not make what they believe and write true. Only that which Jesus states about God is true and right, all others write under a vail of ignorance.
And the reason people see our kind loving Father in a bad light is because people still see God as portrayed though the eyes of ignorant, unenlightened men who wrote under a veil of darkness and did not know the Father. And because people insist on listening to the lying pen of the scribes instead of listening to what Jesus says of the Father.
On the mount of transfiguration Peter, James and John wanted to build 3 tabernacles. One for Moses, one for Elijah and one for Jesus. God said not so, He (speaking of Jesus) is my beloved son HEAR HIM. People are still listening to Moses and Elijah, men who were under the vail of ignorance and did not really know the Father.
Yes they knew the Father but did not fully know the Father, only Jesus and those He revealed the Father to know and understand the Father.
So did God really command people to kill innocent women and children as recorded in the OT? (this is the view held by most)
Or
Did Moses misunderstand what God was saying and did literally, what God meant spiritually?
Example: God commanded Moses to kill all his enemies, innocent men, women and children.
Now there are two ways one can kill their enemies, one by literally killing them; the other by making their enemies their friends thereby in effect killing their enemies.
Moses, misunderstanding God literally killed his enemies, thinking to do God a service, when God all along only meant for Moses to make his enemies his friends thereby killing his enemies.
Or
Did the lying pen of the scribes add to the scriptures and state God commanded the killings after the fact to justify themselves in killing men , women and children.
What MUST always be taken into account is God commanded THOU SHALT NOT KILL, He would not then change His mind and command killing contrary to His own command. God is steadfast and all He commands is steadfast. So we must learn to listen to HIM, Jesus Christ and those Christ revealed the Father too and STOP listening to those who think they know God.
There are tares among the wheat of God’s word written in the bibles, and as we listen to Christ the vail of ignorance is lifted and the tares are removed and we have the pure undefiled word of God written in the bible.
So where did some of these laws come from that the lying pen of the scribes added to the law of Moses and attributed to Moses? They came about when Israel was held captive by Babylon as can be clearly seen in the horrendous eye for and eye law.
The Babylonian Code of Hammurabi was written 200+ years before Moses wrote the law
The law of an eye for an eye comes from the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi
196
If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. [ An eye for an eye ]
Now you know where the lying pen of the scribes stole the law an eye for an eye from, adding it to the Laws of Moses and attributed it to Moses.
Let me start by saying that all scripture is inspired by God but not everything in our bibles is scripture.
A few examples:
Jeremiah 8:8 speaks about the lying pen of the scribes adding to the Law of Moses.
Written in the book of the Law of Moses we read
Numbers 30:2
2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.
Deuteronomy 23:21
21 When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.
However, according to Jesus we are not to swear at all, but let our communication be yea, yea, or nay, nay.
Matthew 5:33-37
33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Jesus’ words are a total contradiction to what is written in Numbers 30:2 and Deuteronomy 23:21.
A couple of things to take note of in what Jesus says in Matthew 5:33-37.
First, Jesus does not say it is written, but says ye have heard that it hath been said.
Jesus purposely chose the words ye have heard that it hath been said instead of it is written to show us that the law of forswearing comes from the lying pen of the Scribes and is an addition to the law of Moses, but attributed to Moses by those same Scribes.
Secondly, some people have tried to tell me that this is only to show the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant. However, if this is the case then God changed His mind about what He wants from us and if God changes His mind about what He wants from us then His word is not steadfast. And if Gods word is not steadfast what assurances do we have that God will not change His mind again and again?
Thirdly, Jesus says whatsoever is more then yea and nay cometh from EVIL. So if forswearing ourselves came from God as Numbers 30:2 and Deuteronomy 23:21 suggest then Jesus would be saying God is EVIL or what God speaks is EVIL.
So we are left with a choice, we can either believe God changes His mind concerning what He wants from us, making His word not steadfast, or we can believe what Jeremiah stated in 8:8 that the lying pen of the Scribes have changed Gods laws into lies.
We see this same lying pen of the Scribe in the horrendous eye for an eye doctrine that the Scribes attributed to Moses in Exodus 21:21-24, Leviticus 24:19-20 and Deuteronomy 19:21
Exodus 21:22-24
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Leviticus 24:19-20
19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; 20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.
Deuteronomy 19:21
21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
But Jesus says that ye resist not evil.
Matthew 5:38-42
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Jesus’ words again are in total contradiction to what is written in Exodus 21:21-24, Leviticus 24:19-20 and Deuteronomy 19:21.
Take note of what Jesus says in Matthew 5:38-42
Again, Jesus does not say it is written, but says ye have heard that it hath been said.
And again, Jesus purposely chose the words ye have heard that it hath been said instead of it is written to show us that the law of an eye for an eye comes from the lying pen of the Scribes and is an addition to the law of Moses, but attributed to Moses by those same Scribes.
Matthew 5:43-45
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Take note that again Jesus uses the same manner of speech, Jesus does not say it is written, but says ye have heard that it hath been said. Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Oh, oh Houston we have a problem.
Nowhere is it stated in the bible that we are to hate our enemy.
Did Jesus make a blunder when he said you have heard that it hath been said?
NO, absolutely, NO, Jesus did not blunder when he said this.
So what is going on?
Everything else Jesus referenced in these sets of scripture is found written somewhere in the Law of Moses being an addition by the lying pen of the Scribes, but attributed to Moses. So why do we not find the term hate thine enemy also recorded?
Most probably, because the scribes deleted it from their writings after Jesus said love your enemies.
No matter how one looks at it, forswearing, eye for an eye and hate thine enemy are a total contradiction to what Jesus tells us.
We read in Revelation a warning to anyone who would add to or take away from the prophesy of the book of Revelation. Now if God saw fit to put this warning in that book is it not obvious He knew that people would be tempted to do just that?
Just because God does not want people to do something does not mean people won’t do it.
And history proves that man has tampered with the scripture.
Witness 1Jn.5:7
Witness Mk.16:9-20
Neither of which are in the oldest and best manuscripts.
Both are an interpolation; added to scripture at a later date.
Some might not like it but those are the FACTS.
Some people have told me that the bible is the word of God and everything in it is of Him and by Him and that He most surely could have protected it all through history.
First let me say there is only ONE WORD OF GOD, that being Jesus Christ and everything that proceeds from His mouth. Therefore the bible cannot be the word of God as history and scripture shows man has tampered with it, adding to it and taking away from it.
Are you getting the picture? Not everything in our bibles is inspired by God or scripture. Man has tampered so much with the scriptures, adding and taking away from them, that the bibles today bring in much confusion. My suggestion to you and everyone else is to take every thought (especially the thoughts recorded in the bible) captive to Christ and see what He says about them.
Some people ask concerning some of the things they have read in the bible concerning the OT.
Things such as God commanding the killings of innocent men, women and children.
Well there are 3 outlooks on this; one is abhorrent, the other 2 are most probable.
1 God actually commanded people to do these things (this is the abhorrent one)
2 People misunderstood what God was actually saying and literally did what He was saying when He was speaking spiritually.
3 The lying pen of the scribes added to the scriptures saying God said such and such when God never said anything of the kind.
We read is scripture
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. 23And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: 24For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them
We also read
12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
What people believe about God is what they write about Him, it does not make what they believe and write true. Only that which Jesus states about God is true and right, all others write under a vail of ignorance.
And the reason people see our kind loving Father in a bad light is because people still see God as portrayed though the eyes of ignorant, unenlightened men who wrote under a veil of darkness and did not know the Father. And because people insist on listening to the lying pen of the scribes instead of listening to what Jesus says of the Father.
On the mount of transfiguration Peter, James and John wanted to build 3 tabernacles. One for Moses, one for Elijah and one for Jesus. God said not so, He (speaking of Jesus) is my beloved son HEAR HIM. People are still listening to Moses and Elijah, men who were under the vail of ignorance and did not really know the Father.
Yes they knew the Father but did not fully know the Father, only Jesus and those He revealed the Father to know and understand the Father.
So did God really command people to kill innocent women and children as recorded in the OT? (this is the view held by most)
Or
Did Moses misunderstand what God was saying and did literally, what God meant spiritually?
Example: God commanded Moses to kill all his enemies, innocent men, women and children.
Now there are two ways one can kill their enemies, one by literally killing them; the other by making their enemies their friends thereby in effect killing their enemies.
Moses, misunderstanding God literally killed his enemies, thinking to do God a service, when God all along only meant for Moses to make his enemies his friends thereby killing his enemies.
Or
Did the lying pen of the scribes add to the scriptures and state God commanded the killings after the fact to justify themselves in killing men , women and children.
What MUST always be taken into account is God commanded THOU SHALT NOT KILL, He would not then change His mind and command killing contrary to His own command. God is steadfast and all He commands is steadfast. So we must learn to listen to HIM, Jesus Christ and those Christ revealed the Father too and STOP listening to those who think they know God.
There are tares among the wheat of God’s word written in the bibles, and as we listen to Christ the vail of ignorance is lifted and the tares are removed and we have the pure undefiled word of God written in the bible.
So where did some of these laws come from that the lying pen of the scribes added to the law of Moses and attributed to Moses? They came about when Israel was held captive by Babylon as can be clearly seen in the horrendous eye for and eye law.
The Babylonian Code of Hammurabi was written 200+ years before Moses wrote the law
The law of an eye for an eye comes from the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi
196
If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. [ An eye for an eye ]
Now you know where the lying pen of the scribes stole the law an eye for an eye from, adding it to the Laws of Moses and attributed it to Moses.
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I don't know if you are intentionally distorting what I am saying or if you are just sooooo intent on hearing what you want to hear that you can't understand what I am saying plainly. But, you are wrong in your demented twisting of what I am saying. I am sure your following will blindly love what you say; but for those who are honestly seeking the Truth, such deliberate obnoxious attempts to distort what another is saying are not appreciated.
I don't doubt His Words. And, I am not determining what should and what should not be in the canon of Scripture that we call the Bible, though you do realize there was a time when people, who were part of a different tradition than you are, did AND then when others, who are also part of a different tradition than you, decided to make what was determined to be "good for devotions, but not Scripture" an official part of their Scripture, right?
So how do you think the process of translation happens?
What makes you think the process commissioned by the King of England (KJV) is a more divine translation than the one that wasn't paid for by political leadership and actually caused its translator to be persecuted and killed for doing so, at a time when the King of England was against making the Bible available to commoners? Tyndale's Bible translation was actually done before the KJV and Wycliffe's was before Tyndale's.
I personally use the KJV, but I know it isn't a perfect translation. When the Holy Spirit brings a translation failure to my attention, I investigate the words and other translations until God gives me peace that I found the right translation.
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Okay. Why do you think God put in His Word those things you quoted? Oh wait. You believe these are not the words of the Lord spoken to us. So we can just ignore them. Throw them out. Again, if God puts things in His Word that talks about an error or a false way, He puts that in His Word so as to convey to the reader not to go down that false path. The story of Cain and Abel. A story of murder. Is this just a record of history to you with no spiritual message? Again, the story teaches us about the correct way to live for God and not the correct way. Do's and don'ts is a part of God's Word. God records men's false ways as a LESSON for us not to do that. For example: If I told you a true story in my own words so as to teach a lesson in doing what is good and not what is bad, the story (While being true) is told by me in a way that can help you the listener to do what is good and right. If the Bible just gave you mindless facts with no lessons in it, then you might be on to something, but you cannot say that all of the words in the Bible are not there by God's design and or they are not the words of God. God can retell a story and THUS, they would be His words. Think.
Side Note:
Also, even in stories you think may not be a story about God (like Judges 19) also has a loose parallel to the life of Christ. Remember, Jesus said that the Scriptures testify of Him. But if you don't think something is Scripture in the Bible, then you will not be able to find Jesus in those parts of your Bible.
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Uh huh. You said there were errors in the Bible and it up to you and God to figure what those errors are. It is either all true or it is all false. You cannot pick and choose what parts of the Bible you don't understand or do not like or those parts you think are in error. We should not correct God's Word but we should let God's Word correct us.
You said:
You said there are errors that you have to correct. If it is just one word you think is in error that is an attack upon God's Word. Sure, you can expound upon a verse in your own words of what you think that means, but to say that the Word of God has errors in it, is simply not true. To give you an understanding on where I am coming from, please check out the videos by Chuck Missler in my Blogger Article.
Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God
(Granted, I do not believe everything Chuck says, or believes, but I do like his apologetics on the Bible).
He will help to show you how the text is of divine origin.
Something that is of divine origin is perfect because God is perfect.
The Word of God is a reflection of the character of GOD.
It is perfect because He is perfect.
You said:
You are looking at Historical Evidence (Historical Science) and not Observational Evidence (Observational Science). Granted, this is not to say that some Historical Evidence can be trusted on some level, but Historical Evidence can be corrupted. A person should first base their argument heavily on Observational Evidences before moving on into Historical Evidences. Watch this short animated video to see what I am talking about.
Side Note:
Oh, and yes, there are Observational Evidences that back up the KJV as being divine in origin.
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Again, intentional distortion and lying for what purpose?
If someone is attempting to show that while All Scripture is inspired by God, not all Scripture is the Word of God, please respond why that isn't true with actual Scripture.
For instance: The words of satan in the Book of Job are part of the God-inspired Scripture within the God-ordained Books of the Old Testament. Are satan's words the inspired Word of God? No, the words of satan aren't The Word of God, even though they are found within the first two chapters of the Inspired Scripture of the Book of Job which is found in the God-ordained Books we call the Old Testament of the Book we call The Bible. The same could be said about jezebel's words and the words of the people who tried to get Daniel killed or Nebuchadnezzar's words.
God gives us a full and honest Testimony that we know to be the God-inspired Scriptures. He expects us to be able to discern who is speaking and not act like the words of satan or jezebel are God's Words.
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straykat
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They're still the words of God, because Job is written more like a court transcript in some respects. With Satan playing his role -- the Adversary (the Adversary of MAN.. he was always an ant to God and not worth being an adversary to God himself). In Job, he plays the part of the vicious prosecutor, pointing fingers. And it's the word of God for simply letting us know what his true nature is. Someone who goes out of their way to make men look bad and then point to God, saying, "See? I told you so. I told you shouldn't have created them." Without it, we're more ignorant of what he really does.
As a matter of fact, people are still ignorant of what he does (because they watch stupid movies and don't read Job). They imagine some ghoul with horns and a pitchfork. No, he's an angel.. who wants God to give up on men.
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Acts2:38
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I believe I see what you are saying. However, I also think you missed what I said.
I said the bible is "God's word" not the "Word of God". Since God is the true author of the scriptures, using men to put them out there, it is indeed God's word, inspired word, that we are to follow/obey.
Secondly, the bible has more importance than you seemingly place it. The bible shows us how to become Christians, stay christians, make christians. It is hugely more important than you make it. An instruction manual on how to become christians, conduct ourselves once christians, and remain so until death or Christ comes.
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You and I won't agree. You can continue to say that I am attacking God's Scriptural Testimony to man which we call the Bible. But, what you think is irrelevant to me. What God thinks is what matters to me. I have tried to help you understand. You choose not to. I'm not interested in continuing to banter with you.
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Your not getting it. Of course the words of Satan are not direct words of God, but they are retold for us in His Word.... GOD's STORY. Hence, why every word in the Bible is of God's Word. You cannot remove the words of Satan from the story of Job and say it is not a part of God's Holy Word for us today. They are a part of God's story! His Word. God's word in the way He tells the story is perfect. They are God's words in retelling a true event. When God tells us a story of truth, we better listen and not question if He actually said those words. God used the devil to afflict Job and it was a part of Job's lesson in life to draw closer to GOD. Even the devil was used to crucify Christ. All a part of the Bible.
Again, it is like if I told you a story and then you turn around and say that they are not my words. I did not tell the story. This is what you are doing with God's Word..
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If you didn't say there are errors to some degree in the Bible, then I wouldn't be giving you any trouble or flack, my friend. I say what I do because God in everything He does is perfect. This would include His Word given to us today. I believe there is a perfect and divine Word of God and you say there isn't one. It's close but no cigar. I get upset because for me, it is a faith issue. If I knew there was not a perfect Word of God for our day, I would not be a Christian. I know it is perfect by faith because God is perfect. You may not see it that way, but I do, my friend.
May God's blessings be upon you (even if we may disagree).
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I agree that Scripture is the Testimony of God and God's Testimony is true, inerrant, and perfect. But, satan's words are not God's Words. God inspired the full story to be shared for His purpose. I agree that God has a purpose for every thing He inspired to be shared in Scripture.
There is stuff that is in the full Testimony of God that God doesn't want us to think, say, or do.
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timewerx
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I can partly agree to this. Many of the things you mentioned is true.
However, the Bible or the sacred scriptures is more accurately referred to as a "seed"
It can be the seed or the path that leads to the whole Word or Truth.
There are many truths that the Spirit revealed to me that is no longer contained in the Bible at least in detail. However, manifest truely in science as it begins to unravel it that is also in relation to the words we speak, the things we do and set our hearts in (what treasure our hearts seek). The heart is deceptive I must beware (The Bible also mentions this). Often we say one thing but the hearts is actually seeking another we may not be aware of, revealed by our actions.
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No, that is not what I am doing with God's Testimony. What you shared is exactly the point I was making. God's full testimony is true and inerrant and complete and perfect. He includes what others say for a purpose; but when others, in Scripture, think, speak or do wrongly, He isn't encouraging us to think, speak, or do the same.
God says His Word never returns void, but accomplishes all that He sent it forth to do. If it is in Scripture, does what satan (or others who stand against God) say return accomplishing everything he/they intended it to do? God says His Word is living and active. Should we consider the words of satan and others who stand against God to be living and active? God says He watches over His Word to perform it. Does He watch over the words of satan or others who stand against God to perform them?
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Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
So John "bare record" of the things he saw...writing them down in the book of revelation which means the book of revelation is the word of God as well as the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
You are blessed to read this and keep or obey what's found in this book.
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
So if this book is the word of God, then so are the rest of the books that God inspired man to write regarding the things God said and showed them.
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
So John "bare record" of the things he saw...writing them down in the book of revelation which means the book of revelation is the word of God as well as the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
You are blessed to read this and keep or obey what's found in this book.
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
So if this book is the word of God, then so are the rest of the books that God inspired man to write regarding the things God said and showed them.
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