Is Hell Real?

[RaymondG]

God is not interested in those people "worshipping" him. God is not real big on numbers.


Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

True, I was thinking more about how others lives would by affected here on earth, if some felt that they no longer had to "be good" because "hell" is gone. Some people need consequences to remain well behaved...

 

[martymonster]

True, I was thinking more about how others lives would by affected here on earth, if some felt that they no longer had to "be good" because "hell" is gone. Some people need consequences to remain well behaved...

Well, the majority of the world is not Christian, so I guess we would do just fine (a very loose definition of fine)

I have actually heard people one this forums say, if there's no such thing as hell, then why even bother being a Christian? Christ's answer to that will be this.


Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

 

[LightLoveHope]

Not if you want to refine silver or gold, etc, etc.

The lake of fire is not for refining, but destroying death and hades and all who are not written in the lambs book of life.

And refining fires only work if there is something worthy of refining. A believer with no fruit has nothing of value, and Jesus says the Father will remove them from the vine.

What for me is conclusive proof people make up their own gospel when simple concepts are just ignored and people carry on as if they do not exist. I was once communicating with a believer who lied about the very words they had written right in front of them.

At that point I know who I am talking to and what is not present in the room.
So this type of conversation only really works with people who have had a real Jesus
encounter, and walk with open hearts.

 

[martymonster]

The lake of fire is not for refining, but destroying death and hades and all who are not written in the lambs book of life.

And refining fires only work if there is something worthy of refining. A believer with no fruit has nothing of value, and Jesus says the Father will remove them from the vine.

What for me is conclusive proof people make up their own gospel when simple concepts are just ignored and people carry on as if they do not exist. I was once communicating with a believer who lied about the very words they had written right in front of them.

At that point I know who I am talking to and what is not present in the room.
So this type of conversation only really works with people who have had a real Jesus
encounter, and walk with open hearts.

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

 

[LightLoveHope]

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

I like those verses. Many believers seem to have a problem believing anyone can
walk righteously or speak uprightly. I do not have such a jaded view or are so
condemning on my fellow brothers and sisters. God bless you

 

[food4thought]

There is no doubt that hell is real, as Jesus and all the Apostles taught it to be real. The question is more around the nature of hell.

Is it really a burning lake of fire that cooks the unsaved for all eternity? I cannot imagine how that links up with the God I know.

Is it really a burning lake of fire in which the unsaved are destroyed? That seems to contradict what the Bible teaches.

Or is it something else... a prison, a quarantine area for those who are hopelessly infected with sin and have rejected the only cure? A horrifying place of weeping and sadness, knowing they could have been in the presence of the One who loves them completely, but that they are now condemned to spend eternity apart from the lover of their souls. A place where they are constantly tested for purity but never made pure, justifying their continued confinement. That sounds right, but it is not literal, and it is always safer to take the Bible literally than to try to spiritualize it's words. I just can't bring myself to believe in the literal interpretation of the descriptions of hell in Scripture...

What exactly hell is like will not be known for certain until the end, IMO. I obviously lean towards the 3rd description, but I am sure there are other possibilities that have not entered my mind.

 

[Invalidusername]

There is no doubt that hell is real, as Jesus and all the Apostles taught it to be real. The question is more around the nature of hell.

Is it really a burning lake of fire that cooks the unsaved for all eternity? I cannot imagine how that links up with the God I know.

Is it really a burning lake of fire in which the unsaved are destroyed? That seems to contradict what the Bible teaches.

Or is it something else... a prison, a quarantine area for those who are hopelessly infected with sin and have rejected the only cure? A horrifying place of weeping and sadness, knowing they could have been in the presence of the One who loves them completely, but that they are now condemned to spend eternity apart from the lover of their souls. A place where they are constantly tested for purity but never made pure, justifying their continued confinement. That sounds right, but it is not literal, and it is always safer to take the Bible literally than to try to spiritualize it's words. I just can't bring myself to believe in the literal interpretation of the descriptions of hell in Scripture...

What exactly hell is like will not be known for certain until the end, IMO. I obviously lean towards the 3rd description, but I am sure there are other possibilities that have not entered my mind.

I believe there are different areas in hell that punish certain people according to their crimes. Like there's a bottomless pit for demons and perhaps apostates/false prophets as well. A lesser suffering place for the more ignorant people and etc.

 

[AlexDTX]

It's still the realm of demons and demons will have their way with anyone who is there. That is not a pleasant thought.

No it is not. There are zero demons in hell.

Luk_10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Eph_2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

All demons are here on Earth with us now, with the exception of some who are chained in darkness of Hell.

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

They will be cast into the Lake of Fire with those people who reject the gift of salvation.

Rev_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[food4thought]

I believe there are different areas in hell that punish certain people according to their crimes. Like there's a bottomless pit for demons and perhaps apostates/false prophets as well. A lesser suffering place for the more ignorant people and etc.

Quite true! Jesus clearly taught this:

Luke 12:42-48 NASB And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? (43) "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. (44) "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. (45) "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; (46) the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. (47) "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, (48) but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

 

[RaymondG]

I believe there are different areas in hell that punish certain people according to their crimes. Like there's a bottomless pit for demons and perhaps apostates/false prophets as well. A lesser suffering place for the more ignorant people and etc.

Sounds like you have hell all mapped out. Are you this knowledgeable about heaven? Are there really mansions there? if so, how many rooms? Are there smaller houses for those who just got by, while the true prophets get the bigger mansions?

 

[food4thought]

No it is not. There are zero demons in hell.

I think you mean that demons will not be tormenting in hell, they will be tormented right along with the unbelieving... I think that's what you meant based upon the last part of your post.

They will be cast into the Lake of Fire with those people who reject the gift of salvation.

Rev_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[food4thought]

Sounds like you have hell all mapped out. Are you this knowledgeable about heaven? Are there really mansions there? if so, how many rooms? Are there smaller houses for those who just got by, while the true prophets get the bigger mansions?

Hi RaymondG. I think I understand where you are coming from, but this is, after all, a thread about hell and it's reality.

 

[Invalidusername]

Quite true! Jesus clearly taught this:

Luke 12:42-48 NASB And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and sensible steward, whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time? (43) "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. (44) "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. (45) "But if that slave says in his heart, 'My master will be a long time in coming,' and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; (46) the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. (47) "And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, (48) but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

Yeah. Also talks about people who would be better to be thrown into an ocean with a millstone around his neck instead of causing a little one to sin. Also calls Judas a child of perdition which is a unpleasant thought.

Jesus also references that there are some sins that would be better to have never been born because of the great suffering in hell

 

[food4thought]

Yeah. Also talks about people who would be better to be thrown into an ocean with a millstone around his neck instead of causing a little one to sin. Also calls Judas a child of perdition which is a unpleasant thought.

Jesus also references that there are some sins that would be better to have never been born because of the great suffering in hell

I didn't mean to suggest hell was not a place of suffering. Imagine those who have loved their sin, but now they are no longer able to indulge their desires! Imagine a place where there is no hope, no real love, no light of truth, only the flesh nature without the ability to indulge it. Imagine standing face to face with Jesus, only to be cast from His presence forever, knowing the light and love and goodness of Him who they rejected. And how exactly will people be tested for purity? Could these tests involve suffering? YES! And there is so much more that I cannot even imagine...

 

[Invalidusername]

I didn't mean to suggest hell was not a place of suffering. Imagine those who have loved their sin, but now they are no longer able to indulge their desires! Imagine a place where there is no hope, no real love, no light of truth, only the flesh nature without the ability to indulge it. Imagine standing face to face with Jesus, only to be cast from His presence forever, knowing the light and love and goodness of Him who they rejected. And how exactly will people be tested for purity? Could these tests involve suffering? YES! And there is so much more that I cannot even imagine...

I agree but I also believe there will be torment and punishment. For example it talks about people who take on the Mark of the Beast will be tormented day and night for all of eternity. This is why I think there are "levels" of hell depending on what your "crime" is. For example I believe blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will have a similar punishment as Mark of the Beast. This is all pure conjecture at this point though.

 

[martymonster]

I have noticed that not a lot of scriptures are getting quoted here. Could it be that the scriptures don't actually support the idea of eternal punishment?

 

[Invalidusername]

I have noticed that not a lot of scriptures are getting quoted here. Could it be that the scriptures don't actually support the idea of eternal punishment?

Isaiah 66:22-24


For as the new heavens and the new earth

that I make

shall remain before me, says the LORD,

so shall your offspring and your name remain.

From new moon to new moon,

and from Sabbath to Sabbath,

all flesh shall come to worship before me,

declares the LORD.


And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.


Daniel 12:1-2


At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Matthew 18:6-9


Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.


Matthew 25:31-46


When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, “Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” . . . Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


Mark 9:42-48


Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, “where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.”


2 Thessalonians 1:5-10


This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering—since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.


Jude 7


Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.


Revelation 14:9-11


If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.


Revelation 20:10, 14-15


And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. . . . Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[food4thought]

I agree but I also believe there will be torment and punishment. For example it talks about people who take on the Mark of the Beast will be tormented day and night for all of eternity. This is why I think there are "levels" of hell depending on what your "crime" is. For example I believe blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will have a similar punishment as Mark of the Beast. This is all pure conjecture at this point though.

For more on my thoughts regarding the doctrine of hell, check out this thread:
The doctrine of hell

 

[Invalidusername]

I have noticed that not a lot of scriptures are getting quoted here. Could it be that the scriptures don't actually support the idea of eternal punishment?

I can post more if you want. Saying that the Bible doesn't teach that hell is eternal is like saying the Bible doesn't teach that God exists.

 

[Invalidusername]

For more on my thoughts regarding the doctrine of hell, check out this thread:
The doctrine of hell

Okay so I think you have half of it correct. People in hell will forever be stained and corrupted by sin. That part is correct. HOWEVER you are missing out on the justice component of God. Every sin MUST BE PUNISHED. "The wages of sin is death." This is not some passive punishment but rather an active punishment that lasts forever.

Revelation 14:9-11


If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

So this person will be actively tormented in the presence of God and angels. I do not believe that hell is separation from God. I believe that God will be somewhat present but only in wrath and indignation.

There is no "test" of purity in hell referenced anywhere in the Bible so I don't know where you get that from.