2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[JLB777]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Sure. But you still have no idea what the verse means.

The Bible could not be more clear: those who believe possess eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13) and those who possess eternal life shall never perish (John 10:28).

Both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 teach that it is those who have NOT believed who will be condemned. So that cannot include former believers, who HAVE believed at some point.

Why haven't you EVER addressed my point about your previous claims that eternal life is given at the judgment, but given 2 Thess 2:12, it's clear that ONLY those who have not believed will be condemned.

That smashes your opinions to tiny bits.



Faulty question. Eternal life is given on the basis of faith in Christ. Not any human act of obedience as your falsely believe.

All these 24 verses speak of only faith or believing as the means for having salvation or eternal life.

Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

How many of these 24 verses that speak of having salvation or eternal life mentions "following Christ"?

Im still waiting for you to explain how a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life, since the scripture says otherwise.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Im still waiting for you to explain how a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life, since the scripture says otherwise.
JLB

Why are you now claiming that anyone can HAVE eternal life, since you've been arguing that eternal life is given at "the judgment"?

Can you explain yourself finally? Or would you rather just have readers of this thread assume that you want to be interallly contradicted?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Im still waiting for you to explain how a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life, since the scripture says otherwise.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


JLB

See post #222. Either explain your contradiction or admit you're not interested in any truth, just your own opinions.

 

[JLB777]

Why are you now claiming that anyone can HAVE eternal life, since you've been arguing that eternal life is given at "the judgment"?

Can you explain yourself finally? Or would you rather just have readers of this thread assume that you want to be interallly contradicted?

I’ve explained this twenty times or more, you have just closed your eyes to the truth.


Then Peter said, “See, we have left all and followed You.”
So He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”
Luke 18:28-30


Those who are in Christ, must abide in Him, to be joined to the eternal life that is found in Him.


Here is how we abide in Him.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him,


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24


Obeying Him; keeping His commandments is loving Him and loving our neighbor.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3


JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

Im still waiting for you to explain how a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life, since the scripture says otherwise.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


JLB

I have explained it to you numerous times JLB.

1 John 5:13~~New American Standard Bible
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Living the Christian way of life is to function and live(abide) in the sphere of our eternal life. Not in the old man or the world.

So whoever hates His brother is not abiding/residing in the eternal life that they HAVE. They are abiding in the old man or the world.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15

Abiding is a present ACTIVE participle.~~I abide. I reside.

If I hate my brother, I am not abiding in my eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Why are you now claiming that anyone can HAVE eternal life, since you've been arguing that eternal life is given at "the judgment"?

Can you explain yourself finally? Or would you rather just have readers of this thread assume that you want to be interallly contradicted?

I’ve explained this twenty times or more, you have just closed your eyes to the truth.

Then Peter said, “See, we have left all and followed You.”
So He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”
Luke 18:28-30

Those who are in Christ, must abide in Him, to be joined to the eternal life that is found in Him.

Here is how we abide in Him.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him,

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24

Obeying Him; keeping His commandments is loving Him and loving our neighbor.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3

Slick attempt to cobble together some verses in your vain attempt to prop up your unbiblical view.

Either a believer HAS eternal life on the basis of believing in Him, per John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, or let's just reject these 3 clear verses and claim that Luke 18:28-30 means that the gift is given in the next life.

You can't have it both ways.

Here's your current favorite proof text:

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15

Do you really not realize that this verse PROVES that believers NOW do possess eternal life?

What you are trying (in vain) to prove is that a believer who hates his brother does NOT HAVE eternal life IN him now. That in itself PROVES that other believers do, if they don't hate their brothers.

But maybe in your hatred of eternal security, you didn't really think out your views.

Well, now it's time to do so.

Your error here is to take Luke 18:28-30 to mean geting eternal life in the next life. If that were true, then let's just snip John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11 and 13 out of our Bibles. Maybe you have already.

But for me, I will simply realize that Luke 18 uses "eternal life" as meaning "life in eternity" which makes perfect sense and doesn't require rejecting John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11 and 13.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Do you really not realize that this verse PROVES that believers NOW do possess eternal life?

What you are trying (in vain) to prove is that a believer who hates his brother does NOT HAVE eternal life IN him now. That in itself PROVES that other believers do, if they don't hate their brothers.

I wanted to ask that question a while back. But we both know how rational,objective questions are treated if they show a glaring contradiction in his theology.

He believes we get eternal life at the Judgement.

So what about all the brethren that DON'T hate their brethren?............... obviously, they are abiding in the eternal life that they HAVE.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I wanted to ask that question a while back. But we both know how rational,objective questions are treated if they show a glaring contradiction in his theology.

He believes we get eternal life at the Judgement.

So what about all the brethren that DON'T hate their brethren?............... obviously, they are abiding in the eternal life that they HAVE.

And that's his problem. He's contradicted himself by his claim that eternal life is given at "the judgment" and then bringing in 1 John 3:15 that shows clearly that those believers who don't hate their brothers HAVE eternal life abiding in them NOW.

 

[JLB777]

And that's his problem. He's contradicted himself by his claim that eternal life is given at "the judgment" and then bringing in 1 John 3:15 that shows clearly that those believers who don't hate their brothers HAVE eternal life abiding in them NOW.

I wanted to ask that question a while back. But we both know how rational,objective questions are treated if they show a glaring contradiction in his theology.

He believes we get eternal life at the Judgement.

So what about all the brethren that DON'T hate their brethren?............... obviously, they are abiding in the eternal life that they HAVE.

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Why are you now claiming that anyone can HAVE eternal life, since you've been arguing that eternal life is given at "the judgment"?

Can you explain yourself finally? Or would you rather just have readers of this thread assume that you want to be interallly contradicted?

Slick attempt to cobble together some verses in your vain attempt to prop up your unbiblical view.

Either a believer HAS eternal life on the basis of believing in Him, per John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, or let's just reject these 3 clear verses and claim that Luke 18:28-30 means that the gift is given in the next life.

You can't have it both ways.

Here's your current favorite proof text:

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15

Do you really not realize that this verse PROVES that believers NOW do possess eternal life?

What you are trying (in vain) to prove is that a believer who hates his brother does NOT HAVE eternal life IN him now. That in itself PROVES that other believers do, if they don't hate their brothers.

But maybe in your hatred of eternal security, you didn't really think out your views.

Well, now it's time to do so.

Your error here is to take Luke 18:28-30 to mean geting eternal life in the next life. If that were true, then let's just snip John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11 and 13 out of our Bibles. Maybe you have already.

But for me, I will simply realize that Luke 18 uses "eternal life" as meaning "life in eternity" which makes perfect sense and doesn't require rejecting John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11 and 13.

I see you both are still avoiding the scripture and the question.


Please explain how a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life, since the scripture says otherwise.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

I see you both are still avoiding the scripture and the question.


Please explain how a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life, since the scripture says otherwise.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


JLB

It's very,very simple JLB.

John 6:47New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15

If you could get rid of that pesky little word 'abiding.' You would have a case.

Believers HAVE eternal life. A brother who hates His brother is not ABIDING in the eternal life that they HAVE.

So I answered. Again.

What about the brethren that DON'T hate their brethren? Do they have eternal life in them, as in now?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I see you both are still avoiding the scripture and the question.

And you're still hilarious. And avoiding Scripture.

Please explain how a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life, since the scripture says otherwise.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15
JLB

You first need to explain WHY you have consistently argued that eternal life is given at "the judgment" when the person has already died, and NOW argue that the believer who hates his brother does not have eternal life abiding in him.

The verse clearly indicates that IF a believer doesn't hate his brother, he HAS eternal life abiding in him.

So you are arguing out of both sides of your mouth.

Be careful or you'll strain your lips.

 

[JLB777]

And you're still hilarious. And avoiding Scripture.


You first need to explain WHY you have consistently argued that eternal life is given at "the judgment" when the person has already died, and NOW argue that the believer who hates his brother does not have eternal life abiding in him.

The verse clearly indicates that IF a believer doesn't hate his brother, he HAS eternal life abiding in him.

So you are arguing out of both sides of your mouth.

Be careful or you'll strain your lips.

It's very,very simple JLB.

John 6:47New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15

If you could get rid of that pesky little word 'abiding.' You would have a case.

Believers HAVE eternal life. A brother who hates His brother is not ABIDING in the eternal life that they HAVE.

So I answered. Again.

What about the brethren that DON'T hate their brethren? Do they have eternal life in them, as in now?

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


The simple truth is a brother who hates his brother is a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Can’t be explained away.

Can’t be refuted.


All you can do is deny it.

Which is all you have done.

JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15

The simple truth is a brother who hates his brother is a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Can’t be explained away.

Correct.

Can’t be refuted.

Correct.

All you can do is deny it.

Nope. I never deny Scripture.

Which is all you have done.

Nope. It's what you've done.

Jesus said whoever believes possesses eternal life in John 5:24, 6:47, and John said it in 1 John 5:11 and 13.

Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

You're just unable to connect the dots and realize that eternal life is given WHEN one believes and because of that, shall never perish.

Can't be explained away.

Can't be refuted.

All you have done is deny it.

 

[JLB777]

Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

Yes those He gives eternal life to.


Unfortunately for your theory that doesn’t include Christian’s who hate one another.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

AS much as JLB shamelessly tries to pit Scripture against Scripture to "prove" that salvation can be lost, all he's done is demonstrate his hatred for what Jesus taught so straightforward.

That whoever believes, possesses eternal life. John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11, 13

That those who receive eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

It's really that simple. And he hates it, obviously.

When first faced with the clarity of John 10:28, he used to argue that eternal life was given at "the judgment".

But now he has a problem because he seems to agree that believers who hate their brothers don't have eternal life in them.

So, which is it? Is eternal life given at "the judgment", or during the life of a believer?

He won't answer that because he can't.

He quotes from 1 John. Interesting. It was that John who wrote 5:11 and 5:13.

5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

This shows he wanted those who believe to KNOW they possess eternal life.

And 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

And he wrote that possession of eternal life is something that God has ALREADY given us.

So, JLB, if honest, would have to admit that eternal life is a present possession of those who believe, which means they possess it WHEN they believe.

Which puts JLB directly in conflict with Jesus, who said He gives eternal life and those He gives it to shall never perish.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Yet, JLB continues to argue that believers (who possess eternal life) can perish.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes those He gives eternal life to.


Unfortunately for your theory that doesn’t include Christian’s who hate one another.

Let me get this straight. You really believe that those who believe but hate their brother aren't given eternal life? We know your pet verse doesn't say that, or anything close to that, so where in the universe did you get that from? Please identify your source.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
JLB

It just says such a person doesn't have eternal life abiding in him. It says nothing about not being given eternal life.

Nor does it say that eternal life will be take away from him.

Further, Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

So explain how a believer, who hates another believer and therefore doesn't have eternal life abiding in him shall never perish?

Or do you just oppose what Jesus said?

 

[JLB777]

Correct.


Correct.


Nope. I never deny Scripture.


Nope. It's what you've done.

Jesus said whoever believes possesses eternal life in John 5:24, 6:47, and John said it in 1 John 5:11 and 13.

Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.

You're just unable to connect the dots and realize that eternal life is given WHEN one believes and because of that, shall never perish.

Can't be explained away.

Can't be refuted.

All you have done is deny it.

Using your opinion tagged with a scripture reference to refute an actual scripture shows your lack of integrity towards The doctrine of Christ.

Yours is the false grace message that is not according to godliness and holiness, and not according to the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


Only those Christian’s who continue in the doctrine of Christ have Him.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

So explain how a believer, who hates another believer and therefore doesn't have eternal life abiding in him shall never perish?

A brother who hates his brother is a murderer.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


If you believe a person who does not have eternal life abiding in them somehow still has eternal life, then please post the scripture that says a person without eternal life abiding in them still has eternal life.


JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

Please explain how a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life

You don't believe ANYBODY has eternal life in them.

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

1 John 5:13~~New American Standard Bible
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[JLB777]

You don't believe ANYBODY has eternal life in them.

Please stop making up lies about what I say, if you can.



A born again Christian who is joined to Christ, in which they are one spirit with Him, are joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.


They have eternal life "in them", because they are "one spirit" with Christ.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
  
  1 Corinthians 6:17

This of course is not the same as having a resurrected body that will never die, and given eternal life at the resurrection of life.


In this life, a person who does not remain in Christ, will be cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

John 15:6


again


In this life a brother in Christ must continue in the doctrine of Christ to "have God"


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


To have Christ, is to have eternal life.


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

1 John 5:12



The definition of eternal life is found in

John 17:3; Knowing Him.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

John 17:3



Those who claim to "know Him", must obey His commandments.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:4


Those who keep His commandments are those who continue to have eternal life.

• We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 3:14-15


Our actions and our behavior have everything to do with us having eternal life.

• He who does not love his brother abides in death

• Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

JLB