2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[JLB777]

One cannot explain that. A brother who hates his brother does not have eternal life abiding in him......But he is still a brother, a saved, Justified, born-again Christian.

A brother who hates his brother enough to say that they can/might perish and does not have eternal life is not ABIDING in Him....... And Is a murderer of the worst kind. Thank God He said they will Never perish..........IF, They have ever trusted in Christ alone.

Does not have eternal life abiding in him.

That’s what the word of God says.

What you added is your opinion based on false doctrine.

You have left what Christ taught; gone away from the doctrine of Christ and you are guilty of teaching false doctrine.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

As long as you are in Christ, that is to say, as long as you have Christ, you have eternal life, because you are joined to Him, and are one spirit with Him.

What you have consistently failed to prove from Scripture is that one who has been placed IN HIM, per the sealing with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13,14) can be unsealed.

So your opening sentence is bogus. There are NO verses that address the fake news condition of "as long as..." one remains in Christ.

Since you can't prove your claim, why should anyone believe it?

However, if you should depart from Him, by departing from the faith; no longer believing in Him, then you no longer have Christ, because you have chosen to transgress His doctrine, His teaching, His word, which is all about love.

Once again, your opinion has no support from Scripture.

The Bible does note that believers can depart from the faith, and even believe for a while.

But there are no verses that such behavior results in loss of salvation, being unsealed from the Holy Spirit.

Your opinions cannot be supported from the Bible.

There are many many scriptures throughout the new testament that teach us this, which you have chosen to ignore.

Just more fake news. In fact, I've addressed EACH ONE and showed that they don't mean what your opinion thinks they mean.

Here is just one, the only one that is needed to completely wreck your whole false theology.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Well, then, congratulations for just "proving" that Jesus lied in John 3:18, 5:24 and 10:28.

It's these verses (and more) that you've rejected in favor of your own opinions.

Please explain how a brother in Christ can hate his brother and still have eternal life abiding in him?

I never said he does. I explained what "has eternal life abiding in him" means. But you either couldn't comprehend it, or you just rejected it, just as you have for the very words of Jesus, when He said those He gives eternal life, which is when they believe, shall never perish.

I could explain it once again, but what's the use? You're really not interested in truth at all. Just spouting your own opinions.

For your opinions to have credence, John 10:28 would have to include the conditions that you have added, but Jesus didn't.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Once again he proves his inability to read 2 verses properly. The promise of not being snatched from His hand is found in v.28a, not anywhere from v.27, which is merely a description of His sheep, and NOT conditions of anything."

Again, the promise of verse 28, is conditional upon verse 27.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

It seems most everyone but you recognize v.27 as a simple description of what Jesus' sheep DO. It's clearly NOT about HOW TO BECOME a sheep, which seems to be your claim, which is absurd.

Now, IF v.27 was written as a condition to become one of Jesus' sheep, then you'd have a point. But as it is written, you have no point at all.

How long does a person have to follow Christ, before He gives then eternal life?

This is another bogus question, based on a totally false premise, of which you're infamous for.

We know from the following verses that WHEN one believes, they POSSESS eternal life.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you HAVE eternal life.

Given your obsession with the present tense in the Greek, please note that all 3 verses speak of current possession of eternal life on the basis of believing. So that means one currently possesses eternal life WHEN they initially believe.

But that's not all. Here are some verses about the aorist tense, which indicates a completed action (in the past).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Very clear; those who believe are NOT condemned. But those who HAVE NOT believed stands condemned already.

So, try as hard as you want, you cannot prove that eternal life is given after one dies, or "at the judgment".

In fact, the next verse totally destroys your opinion about when eternal life is given:

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God HAS GIVEN us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Once again, your theories and opinions have been crushed by Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

What you added is your opinion based on false doctrine.

Said the champion of opinion pushers.

 

[JLB777]

What you have consistently failed to prove from Scripture is that one who has been placed IN HIM, per the sealing with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13,14) can be unsealed.

So your opening sentence is bogus. There are NO verses that address the fake news condition of "as long as..." one remains in Christ.

Since you can't prove your claim, why should anyone believe it?


Once again, your opinion has no support from Scripture.

The Bible does note that believers can depart from the faith, and even believe for a while.

But there are no verses that such behavior results in loss of salvation, being unsealed from the Holy Spirit.

Your opinions cannot be supported from the Bible.


Just more fake news. In fact, I've addressed EACH ONE and showed that they don't mean what your opinion thinks they mean.


Well, then, congratulations for just "proving" that Jesus lied in John 3:18, 5:24 and 10:28.

It's these verses (and more) that you've rejected in favor of your own opinions.


I never said he does. I explained what "has eternal life abiding in him" means. But you either couldn't comprehend it, or you just rejected it, just as you have for the very words of Jesus, when He said those He gives eternal life, which is when they believe, shall never perish.

I could explain it once again, but what's the use? You're really not interested in truth at all. Just spouting your own opinions.

For your opinions to have credence, John 10:28 would have to include the conditions that you have added, but Jesus didn't.

Said the champion of opinion pushers.

I said:
"Once again he proves his inability to read 2 verses properly. The promise of not being snatched from His hand is found in v.28a, not anywhere from v.27, which is merely a description of His sheep, and NOT conditions of anything."

It seems most everyone but you recognize v.27 as a simple description of what Jesus' sheep DO. It's clearly NOT about HOW TO BECOME a sheep, which seems to be your claim, which is absurd.

Now, IF v.27 was written as a condition to become one of Jesus' sheep, then you'd have a point. But as it is written, you have no point at all.


This is another bogus question, based on a totally false premise, of which you're infamous for.

We know from the following verses that WHEN one believes, they POSSESS eternal life.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you HAVE eternal life.

Given your obsession with the present tense in the Greek, please note that all 3 verses speak of current possession of eternal life on the basis of believing. So that means one currently possesses eternal life WHEN they initially believe.

But that's not all. Here are some verses about the aorist tense, which indicates a completed action (in the past).

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Very clear; those who believe are NOT condemned. But those who HAVE NOT believed stands condemned already.

So, try as hard as you want, you cannot prove that eternal life is given after one dies, or "at the judgment".

In fact, the next verse totally destroys your opinion about when eternal life is given:

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God HAS GIVEN us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Once again, your theories and opinions have been crushed by Scripture.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JLB

Assuming that at one time you did trust in Christ alone:

Every time you post a comment to a brother/sister to convince him/her that they really don't have eternal life at this time..........YOU, are not abiding in the sphere of your eternal life. And you are abiding/residing in death(the cosmic system.)

John is not saying, as you erroneously claim, that you no longer have eternal life because you hate the brethren so. The Lord Jesus Christ said you will never perish.

However, there is plenty in His word that you will be least in His kingdom. Suffer loss. And be saved as if through fire.

 

[JLB777]

Every time you post a comment to a brother/sister to convince him/her that they really don't have eternal life at this time..........YOU, are not abiding in the sphere of your eternal life. And you are abiding/residing in death(the cosmic system.)

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15

• Thanks, for confirming that you do not believe in OSAS.

But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.




JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

I said:
John is not saying, as you erroneously claim, that you no longer have eternal life because you hate the brethren so. The Lord Jesus Christ said you will never perish.

However, there is plenty in His word that you will be least in His kingdom. Suffer loss. And be saved as if through fire.

• Thanks, for confirming that you do not believe in OSAS.

Your above deduction of what I said is from near insanity, a liar or someone who doesn't understand simple English(And I doubt it is the latter.)
FreeGrace has you backed so far into a corner with your false theology, that you don't even make sense anymore.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
JLB

Sure. But you still have no idea what the verse means.

The Bible could not be more clear: those who believe possess eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13) and those who possess eternal life shall never perish (John 10:28).

Both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 teach that it is those who have NOT believed who will be condemned. So that cannot include former believers, who HAVE believed at some point.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Are you not aware that this verse clearly indicates that eternal life IS in people.

Since your opinion is that no one has eternal life until the judgment, then how do you explain the clear indication here?

The verse would be meaningless if eternal life weren't given and possessed until the judgment. It would mean that NO ONE has eternal life, whether they've committed any certain sins or not.

But I guess you haven't thought through your own opinions yet.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Are you not aware that this verse clearly indicates that eternal life IS in people.

Since your opinion is that no one has eternal life until the judgment, then how do you explain the clear indication here?

The verse would be meaningless if eternal life weren't given and possessed until the judgment. It would mean that NO ONE has eternal life, whether they've committed any certain sins or not.

But I guess you haven't thought through your own opinions yet.

An astute observation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑ (to JLB)
Are you not aware that this verse clearly indicates that eternal life IS in people.

Since your opinion is that no one has eternal life until the judgment, then how do you explain the clear indication here?

The verse would be meaningless if eternal life weren't given and possessed until the judgment. It would mean that NO ONE has eternal life, whether they've committed any certain sins or not.

But I guess you haven't thought through your own opinions yet.

An astute observation.

He's never yet addressed this glaring hole in his opinions and claims. But I still point it all out to him, for the benefit of anyone who follows this thread.

The more he fails to address specific charges against his opinions, the more others will see his inability to defend or support his opinions.

I have no expectation to convince him of anything. He has made clear that he isn't about to be convinced of anything outside of his own opinion.

 

[JLB777]

John is not saying, as you erroneously claim, that you no longer have eternal life because you hate the brethren so. The Lord Jesus Christ said you will never perish.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



Thank you for admitting that you reject scripture, calling the Apostle John a liar.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Are you not aware that this verse clearly indicates that eternal life IS in people.

Since your opinion is that no one has eternal life until the judgment, then how do you explain the clear indication here?

The verse would be meaningless if eternal life weren't given and possessed until the judgment. It would mean that NO ONE has eternal life, whether they've committed any certain sins or not.

But I guess you haven't thought through your own opinions yet.

Again, you make up lies about what I state, then proceed as if that is what I said.


You twist both scripture as well as my words, in a desperate attempt to prop up your man made doctrine.


Here is my quote -

As long as you are in Christ, that is to say, as long as you have Christ, you have eternal life, because you are joined to Him, and are one spirit with Him.


However, if you should depart from Him, by departing from the faith; no longer believing in Him, then you no longer have Christ, because you have chosen to transgress His doctrine, His teaching, His word, which is all about love.

• In Christ = Eternal Life
• Disconnected from Christ = Cast into the fire and burned.

There are many many scriptures throughout the new testament that teach us this, which you have chosen to ignore.


Here is just one, the only one that is needed to completely wreck your whole false theology.



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



Please explain how a brother in Christ can hate his brother and still have eternal life abiding in him?

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



Please explain how a brother in Christ can hate his brother and still have eternal life abiding in him?




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Sure. But you still have no idea what the verse means.

The Bible could not be more clear: those who believe possess eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13) and those who possess eternal life shall never perish (John 10:28).

Both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 teach that it is those who have NOT believed who will be condemned. So that cannot include former believers, who HAVE believed at some point.

Still waiting for an answer -


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


How long does a person have to follow Christ, before He gives then eternal life?




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Thank you for admitting that you reject scripture, calling the Apostle John a liar.

What drives you to lie so much? Gr8grace never ever admitted that he rejects Scripture, or calling John a liar. That's just absurd.

It's your opinions that would make John, Paul and Jesus liars if your opinions were correct.

Thankfully, they are not correct, but hideous distortions of what John, Paul and Jesus said.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Are you not aware that this verse clearly indicates that eternal life IS in people.

Since your opinion is that no one has eternal life until the judgment, then how do you explain the clear indication here?

The verse would be meaningless if eternal life weren't given and possessed until the judgment. It would mean that NO ONE has eternal life, whether they've committed any certain sins or not.

But I guess you haven't thought through your own opinions yet.

Again, you make up lies about what I state, then proceed as if that is what I said.

Here is what you do when I point out factual discrepancies in your posts; you whine about my lying about what you post. But what you NEVER have done, ever, is to simply and calmly point out how my posts are in fact false. All you've ever had is your own opinions, none of which have been supported by Scripture.

You twist both scripture as well as my words, in a desperate attempt to prop up your man made doctrine.

This is really hilarious. Jesus said He gives eternal life to believers (John 5:24, 6:47, 10:28) and they shall never perish (John 10:28).

And you have the gall and audacity to claim that believers CAN perish.

You are the "twister of Scripture".

Here is my quote -

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Please explain how a brother in Christ can hate his brother and still have eternal life abiding in him?

I have explained it many many times, but you have NEVER even once addressed what I explained and tried to show how it can't be correct.

The reason is you have no ability to show that my explanation is false, or that your opinion about selected verses is correct.

So all you do is claim stuff. Without any biblical support.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Sure. But you still have no idea what the verse means.

The Bible could not be more clear: those who believe possess eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13) and those who possess eternal life shall never perish (John 10:28).

Both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 teach that it is those who have NOT believed who will be condemned. So that cannot include former believers, who HAVE believed at some point.

Still waiting for an answer -

Why haven't you EVER addressed my point about your previous claims that eternal life is given at the judgment, but given 2 Thess 2:12, it's clear that ONLY those who have not believed will be condemned.

That smashes your opinions to tiny bits.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

How long does a person have to follow Christ, before He gives then eternal life?

Faulty question. Eternal life is given on the basis of faith in Christ. Not any human act of obedience as your falsely believe.

All these 24 verses speak of only faith or believing as the means for having salvation or eternal life.

Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

How many of these 24 verses that speak of having salvation or eternal life mentions "following Christ"?

 

[Gr8Grace]

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



Thank you for admitting that you reject scripture, calling the Apostle John a liar.



JLB

I should participate more. Responses like this just drive another nail in your false doctrine COFFIN.
And honestly, even a rational unbeliever is like," What?" To most of your irrational responses.

You can't defend your message. So just attack the folks that poke holes, HUGE holes, in just about every facet of your false theology.

 

[JLB777]

I should participate more. Responses like this just drive another nail in your false doctrine COFFIN.
And honestly, even a rational unbeliever is like," What?" To most of your irrational responses.

You can't defend your message. So just attack the folks that poke holes, HUGE holes, in just about every facet of your false theology.

Im still waiting for you to explain how a brother who hates his brother still has eternal life, since the scripture says otherwise.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:15


JLB