IS IT SIN TO BREAK THE 10 COMMANDMENTS? (Yep!)

[Bible Highlighter]

Just as the pharisees did not understand, neither do you. Doing good works does not violate the Sabbath.

The problem you run into is that the Sabbath is not a command that is repeated in the New Testament. There are lots of changes between the Old and the New. Unless you are an Ebionite (A Christian who denies the works of Paul): Paul says we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:6). So obviously a change has happened here. For Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Colossians 2:16 says we are not to judge anyone according to Sabbaths. So this means the Sabbath is not binding anymore because we cannot judge anyone according to Sabbaths. Yes, we see believers in the NT observing the Saturday Sabbath, but this is not the same as it being a commandment from God. We also do not see the church as a whole gathering on the Sabbath, either. Only select individuals kept it for unique reasons. I believe Paul became a Jew so he could win the Jews and others kept it early on because they were not aware things had changed yet.

 

[Saint Steven]

Just as the pharisees did not understand, neither do you. Doing good works does not violate the Sabbath.

I agree. But the law is in conflict with itself. Jesus pointed this out on a few occasions.

John 7:23
Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?

 

[Dave L]

Hello Dave, it was already explained to you simply in two scriptures from Exodus 34:8 and Exodus 24:7 but you dismissed or ignored these scriptures and the short version. It was very easy and simple to understand. If you need a link again let me know I will try and get it for you again.

After, you were posted a more detailed reply in case you needed more scripture to consider (some like the detail) but as you agree you did not read or ignored it.

This leads me to think you had no intention of a discussion about God's WORD and the OLD COVENANT as it challenges everything you believe in the NEW COVENANT.

Anyhow it is ok with me if you are not open to God's WORD then it is between you and God.

I wish you all only the best.

I can understand how you think you are sinning if you do not keep the Sabbath. It's similar to those with weak consciences eating food sacrificed to idols.

If you think it is sin not to keep the Sabbath, it is. Because whatever is not of faith is sin. But in reality, it is sin to keep the Sabbath because it drags you back into bondage. Needing to keep the entire law.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree. But the law is in conflict with itself. Jesus pointed this out on a few occasions.

John 7:23
Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?

When Jesus died, the Sabbath laws were nailed to the cross.

Before the cross: I do not believe there was a problem with the Sabbath Law itself. Jesus is merely pointing out that there are certain things that a believer in the OT can do and not do according to the Sabbath. Healing on the Sabbath or doing good on the Sabbath was not forbidden. What was forbidden on the Sabbath was doing general monotonous labor for one's one self interests.

Granted, the Sabbath does not apply under the NT anymore, though.
I do not believe Jesus changed the Sabbath prior to the cross, and I do not believe Jesus violated the Sabbath in any way. I believe that when Jesus said He was Lord over the Sabbath, Jesus was indicating that He was God and that He had the authority to say what was acceptable on the Sabbath and what was not acceptable on the Sabbath.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The opening verse proves that being under the law is a choice, not a consequence.

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?

You are not considering the context and the other scriptures you posted earlier that say the same thing and that is RIGHTOUESNESS is not from the LAW (10 Commandments) it is from FAITH in CHRIST (God's Word).

To be "UNDER THE LAW" in this context is to seek to get your own RIGHTEOUSNESS by trying to obey God's LAW when all God's LAW does is reveal sin. Paul is showing through the covenants [Hagar and Sarah are an alegory of the OLD AND NEW COVENANTS v24] that RIGHTOUESNESS is by FAITH and not by the LAW.

The LAW (10 commandments and the Mosaic BOOK) is not where we get RIGHTOUESNESS because as PAUL says elsewhere there is NONE RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE (Romans 3:10). The purpose of God's LAW is only to give us a KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172). It is the schoolmaster that leads us to the Cross of Christ that we might be forgiven by FAITH (Galatians 3:22-25).

RIGHTEOUSNESS is by FAITH in the WORD of GOD alone and not from the deeds of the law. If you are trying to be righteous through the LAW then all you will see is your sins and the wages of sin is death because you have not accepted the gift of God's dear son (Romans 6:23).

The scriptures are not saying God's LAW is Abolsihed Steve it is saying RIGHTEOUSNESS is by FAITH in Christ and not the LAW the works of the LAW. This is the topic of discussion and subject matter of v21-31.

Bondage is to sin (John 8:34). God's LAW just shows it (Romans 3:20). Jesus wants to save us from it (John 8:36).

Hope this helps (written on the fly)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I can understand how you think you are sinning if you do not keep the Sabbath. It's similar to those with weak consciences eating food sacrificed to idols.

Not really Dave, God's WORD teaches all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom because they have rejected the gift of God's dear son (Hebrews 10:26-27; Romans 6:23; 1 John 3:3-9; Hebrews 6:4-8). If sin is breaking any of the 10 commandments does it not worry you that breaking them will keep you out of God's Kingdom?

If you think it is sin not to keep the Sabbath, it is. Because whatever is not of faith is sin. But in reality, it is sin to keep the Sabbath because it drags you back into bondage. Needing to keep the entire law.

JAMES 2:8-11
[8],If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
[9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Yep only need to break one of the 10 to stand guilty before God of sin. Not looking to good for some come judgment day.

 

[Dave L]

Not really Dave, God's WORD teaches all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom because they have rejected the gift of God's dear son (Hebrews 10:26-27; Romans 6:23; 1 John 3:3-9; Hebrews 6:4-8). If sin is breaking any of the 10 commandments does it not worry you that breaking them will keep you out of God's Kingdom?



JAMES 2:8-11
[8],If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
[9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Yep only need to break one of the 10 to stand guilty before God of sin. Not looking to good for some come judgment day.

You think you are sinning if you do not keep the Sabbath. I think I am sinning if I do. (Although I have at least one rest day per week because it is healthy). But I know we are not under the Law since Christ abolished it. And to keep the Sabbath rejects all that he suffered for on the cross.

 

[Neogaia777]

Not really Dave, God's WORD teaches all those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's Kingdom because they have rejected the gift of God's dear son (Hebrews 10:26-27; Romans 6:23; 1 John 3:3-9; Hebrews 6:4-8). If sin is breaking any of the 10 commandments does it not worry you that breaking them will keep you out of God's Kingdom?



JAMES 2:8-11
[8],If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
[9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

Yep only need to break one of the 10 to stand guilty before God of sin. Not looking to good for some come judgment day.

That is the problem isn't it, you hit the nail on the head... What's the answer...?

What about the context of those scriptures or anything...?

God Bless!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

When Jesus died, the Sabbath laws were nailed to the cross.

Which Sabbath laws? There were many. Don't get your shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the covenant mixed up with God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us a knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20)

Before the cross: I do not believe there was a problem with the Sabbath Law itself. Jesus is merely pointing out that there are certain things that a believer in the OT can do and not do according to the Sabbath. Healing on the Sabbath or doing good on the Sabbath was not forbidden. What was forbidden on the Sabbath was doing general monotonous labor for one's one self interests.

Why would Jesus teach the correct way to keep the Sabbath if it was not to be kept after his death? Then we have all the Apostles still keeping it after Jesus died including Paul who kept it with both Jews and Gentiles.

Granted, the Sabbath does not apply under the NT anymore, though. I do not believe Jesus changed the Sabbath prior to the cross, and I do not believe Jesus violated the Sabbath in any way. I believe that when Jesus said He was Lord over the Sabbath, Jesus was indicating that He was God and that He had the authority to say what was acceptable on the Sabbath and what was not acceptable on the Sabbath.

Please provide one scripture that says that God's 4th Commandment is abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day. There is no scripture.

.................

SIN is breaking any of God's 10 Commandments (Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT ENTER the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

In times of ignorance God winks at but when as knowledge of the truth has come God calls on all men everywhere to repent and believe his Word (Acts 17:30-31)

God's is calling his people to come out from following the traditions of men to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You think you are sinning if you do not keep the Sabbath. I think I am sinning if I do. (Although I have at least one rest day per week because it is healthy). But I know we are not under the Law since Christ abolished it. And to keep the Sabbath rejects all that he suffered for on the cross.

No one is "UNDER THE LAW" unless they are breaking it. Then they stand guilty before God in sin (Romans 3:9-19). Your confused in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures because you do not understand the OLD neither do you wish to. You mix the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the covenant up with God's eternal law that give us the knowledge of Good and evil.

 

[Neogaia777]

Is it best to be ignorant of the law, or sin...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

No one is "UNDER THE LAW" unless they are breaking it. Then they stand guilty before God in sin (Romans 3:9-19). You confused in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures because you do not understand the OLD neither do you wish to. You mix the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the covenant up with God's eternal law that give us the knowledge of Good and evil.

But all break it or broke it except Jesus, what's that mean...?

 

[Dave L]

No one is "UNDER THE LAW" unless they are breaking it. Then they stand guilty before God in sin (Romans 3:9-19). You confused in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures because you do not understand the OLD neither do you wish to. You mix the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the covenant up with God's eternal law that give us the knowledge of Good and evil.

You are no longer under grace, having rejected it, and are back under the Law, if you think you need to keep the Sabbath.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

But all break it or broke it except Jesus, what's that mean...?

Absolutely that is the purpose of God's LAW to show us our need of Christ and lead us to the cross that we might be justified [FORGIVEN] by faith.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You are no longer under grace, having rejected it, and are back under the Law, if you think you need to keep the Sabbath.

Not at all Dave it is only those who break God's LAW that are no longer under grace.

ROMANS 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

ROMANS 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

HEBREWS 10:26-27
[26], For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
[27], But a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.



If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand with the NEW COVENANT is?

 

[Dave L]

Not at all Dave it is only those who break God's LAW that are no longer under grace.

ROMANS 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

ROMANS 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

If you do not know what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand with the NEW COVENANT is?

If a person is born again, they won't want to sin. But if you need to be told not to steal, maybe it is because you are lost and really need the Law.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If a person is born again, they won't want to sin. But if you need to be told not to steal, maybe it is because you are lost and really need the Law.

Those who are born again do not practice known sin *1 JOHN 3:9, How can you know what sin is if you abolished the law? I am not lost because I know him who calls me and he tells me...

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3]
[3], And by this we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that says, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Not looking too good for some come judgment day.

 

[Dave L]

Those who are born again do not practice known sin *1 JOHN 3:9, How can you know what sin is if you abolished the law?

Love defines righteousness. Hatred defines sin. The law controlled the hateful by depicting and forbidding common acts produced by hatred.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Love defines righteousness. Hatred defines sin. The law controlled the hateful by depicting and forbidding common acts produced by hatred.

It is the 10 Commandments that give a knowledge of GOOD and EVIL, SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and follow God's WORD and is why Jesus says; ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [Love to God and Love to Man] HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

If you do not understand what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW is?

Did you know the two great commandments of LOVE come from the OLD TESTAMENT?

 

[Dave L]

It is the 10 Commandments that give a knowledge of GOOD and EVIL, SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and follow God's WORD and is why Jesus says; ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [Love to God and Love to Man] HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

If you do not understand what the OLD COVENANT is how can you understand what the NEW is? Did you know the two great commandments of LOVE come from the OLD TESTAMENT?

The unregenerate know first hand how sinful they are by the golden rule written in their heart. They all know how they want to be treated, but none treat others this way. The Ten Commandments might tie them up and keep them from Christ, thinking they are good for not doing what they forbade. But it's the inner law of the heart that drives the point home.