Can you refute these posts?

[Ed Parenteau]

The earth and a particular plot of land are not the same

Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth

God said I give you this land as an eternal inheritence to you and your generations after you.

One is given to the meek, (conditional)

One is given as a gift (unconditional - I Give to you!)the only prerequisite is to be a physical descendent of abraham, Issac and Jacob..

Are we under law (conditional)

or Did we recieve a grace gift (unconditional - i give you eternal life). The prerequisites were paid in the cross, through faith we recieve it.

As you see, if god does not keep his grace gift to Israel, nothing will stop him from not keeping his grace gift to us, thus what reason do we have to continue in faith.

John said the power that keeps us in faith, is the knowledge we have eternal life, the power that will bring Israel to repentence is not only christ and eternal life, but that he will keep his promise made to the fathers concerning their physical grace gift

From pentecost to Cornelius's were all physical descendants from the 12 tribes of Israel who became the Church. In your view, are these the ones who inherit the land or do you believe that they who rejected God's gift of grace and murdered His Son are the one's who inherit the land?

 

[Biblewriter]

From pentecost to Cornelius's were all physical descendants from the 12 tribes of Israel who became the Church. In your view, are these the ones who inherit the land or do you believe that they who rejected God's gift of grace and murdered His Son are the one's who inherit the land?

The scriptures are very clear that all Israel will inherit the land, and Ezekiel 36 doubles the word all in a single statement, stressing that the meaning is absolutely all. But Ezekiel 20 just as clearly says that before this happens, God will purge the rebels from their midst, Zecharian 13 and 14 make it clear that all the rest will repent, and Isaiah 4 very clearly says that all of them that are still living "will be called holy."

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Eze 36: 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.
This is obviously fulfilled in the new covenant "Israel of God"

Romans 4:13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Gal 3: 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

 

[jgr]

If I say “I will do such-and-such,” when I knew I would not do that, I lied. There is no escape from the hard fact that you are accusing God of lying.

There are those who demand that God renege on His New Will and Testament (Hebrews 9:15-17), rescind the better promises contained therein (Hebrews 8:6), repossess His bequests made to His Son (2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2), and award them to a disobedient and gainsaying people (Romans 10:21) of Baal worshipers (Romans 11:4) who are the children of the flesh, not the children of God (Romans 9:8).

Thankfully, those demands, and those who make them, have gone, are going, and will go; unheard by God.

His New Will and Testament is an Everlasting Covenant. (Hebrews 13:20)

 

[Biblewriter]

There are those who demand that God renege on His New Will and Testament (Hebrews 9:15-17), rescind the better promises contained therein (Hebrews 8:6), repossess His bequests made to His Son (2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2), and award them to a disobedient and gainsaying people (Romans 10:21) of Baal worshipers (Romans 11:4) who are the children of the flesh, not the children of God (Romans 9:8).

Thankfully, those demands, and those who make them, have gone, are going, and will go; unheard by God.

His New Will and Testament is an Everlasting Covenant. (Hebrews 13:20)

I am not aware of even one Christian that even imagines that God rescinded any of his New Covenant promises. But you are accusing God of lying, in promising to do things that He knew, at the time He promised to do them, that He would not do them.

You can keep trying to weasel out of this, but there is simply no way to escape it. If God knows the future, (and scripture plainly declares that He does) then, at the time He made the Old Covenant, He knew he would, at a later date, make a New Covenant. So if the promises of the New Covenant were going to negate the unconditional promises of the Old Covenant, then God was flat out lying when He made these unconditional promises.

The jury is not out. You are guilty of accusing God of lying.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

From pentecost to Cornelius's were all physical descendants from the 12 tribes of Israel who became the Church. In your view, are these the ones who inherit the land or do you believe that they who rejected God's gift of grace and murdered His Son are the one's who inherit the land?

Not sure how this relates. Should we not be looking at the OT when the promise was given, to who and for how long? would not this answer all our questions?

1. The gift was given to all descendants, (gen 12: 7, 13: 5, 15: 13-18, 17:8, 24: 7 26: 3-4, 28: 4, 13, 35:12, 48: 4, 33: 1 and I can go on and on and on how many times it is promised, or mentioned throughout the OT.

2. The gift, being eternal, later through moses, a law was given for the to obey if they wanted to ENJOY or USE their gift. Failure to live up to these demands would cause God to punish, up to the point where if it got so bad, he would destroy the city, the temple. and foreigners would enslave them up to the point where they were completely removed from the land. (lev 26) these promises were accomplished because of Israels disobedience by Babylon and rome (ad 70)

so to your questions,

1. Does the land belong to those Jews who believed? Yes
2. Does it belong to the unbelieving Jews? Yes
3. Were they, or really, any Jew enjoying their land from the time of Babylon until Christ? No. They were slaves to 4 Gentile kingdoms, or as Daniel called them, Beasts. Because they were being punished for unbelief. the final punishment being in AD 70 when Rome did the ultimate for the first time, and scattered ALL ISRAEL to the ends of the earth, of which they still are today (Last I heard, there were more people claiming to be Jewish in the US than their are in what is termed modern day Israel)

think of it like this, If your parents give you this great gift (say like a car) and makes a demand you obey them while you have it, If you disobey and they take the car away so you can not use it as punishment, And in turn, they will allow someone else to use it. The car is still yours, You just can not use it or be blessed by it, If you repent, and change, you get your car back.

It is about the same with the land, God Gave it to Israel, He said if they obey him, he will allow them to use it, and they will be blessed, If they disobey, He will take some privileges away, each time they continue to obey, he will punish them 7 times more, The ultimate punishment to be military defeat, and destruction of the thing they love (the city and temple) and while they are being punished, their enemy gets to enjoy their land. But of they repent (lev 26 again) God will remember his promise.

The land belongs to Abraham Issac and Jacob, By inheritance, it also belongs to their offspring.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Eze 36: 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.
This is obviously fulfilled in the new covenant "Israel of God"

Romans 4:13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Gal 3: 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

the first was not completely fulfilled. read the whole passage. It makes claims that certain things will happen.

the rest of those are speaking of heirs as per the father of many nations.

Has nothing to do with the land of canaan or Israel

 

[jgr]

I am not aware of even one Christian that even imagines that God rescinded any of his New Covenant promises. But you are accusing God of lying, in promising to do things that He knew, at the time He promised to do them, that He would not do them.

You can keep trying to weasel out of this, but there is simply no way to escape it. If God knows the future, (and scripture plainly declares that He does) then, at the time He made the Old Covenant, He knew he would, at a later date, make a New Covenant. So if the promises of the New Covenant were going to negate the unconditional promises of the Old Covenant, then God was flat out lying when He made these unconditional promises.

The jury is not out. You are guilty of accusing God of lying.

You demand that God renege on His New Will and Testament (Hebrews 9:15-17), rescind the better promises contained therein (Hebrews 8:6), repossess His bequests made to His Son (2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2), and award them to a disobedient and gainsaying people (Romans 10:21) of Baal worshipers (Romans 11:4) who are the children of the flesh, not the children of God (Romans 9:8).

Thankfully, those demands, which you make, have gone, are going, and will go; unheard by God.

His New Will and Testament is an Everlasting Covenant. (Hebrews 13:20)

 

[Biblewriter]

You demand that God renege on His New Will and Testament (Hebrews 9:15-17), rescind the better promises contained therein (Hebrews 8:6), repossess His bequests made to His Son (2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2), and award them to a disobedient and gainsaying people (Romans 10:21) of Baal worshipers (Romans 11:4) who are the children of the flesh, not the children of God (Romans 9:8).

Thankfully, those demands, which you make, have gone, are going, and will go; unheard by God.

His New Will and Testament is an Everlasting Covenant. (Hebrews 13:20)

Fulfilling the Old Testament promises does not in any way renege on the New Testament ones. you are forgetting that the same infallible God made all of them. And He will keep all of them.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Concerning Israel. So, as you can see, there were conditions on Abraham's descendents, but not on his promise which is fulfilled in Christ.
Deut 28:
45“So all these curses shall come on you and pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the LORD your God by keeping His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46“They shall become a sign and a wonder on you and your descendants forever.
Sure sounds like the last 2,000 years since the destruction of the temple in 70 ad if you ask me.

Gal 3: 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

 

[Biblewriter]

Concerning Israel. So, as you can see, there were conditions on Abraham's descendents, but not on his promise which is fulfilled in Christ.
Deut 28:
45“So all these curses shall come on you and pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the LORD your God by keeping His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46“They shall become a sign and a wonder on you and your descendants forever.
Sure sounds like the last 2,000 years since the destruction of the temple in 70 ad if you ask me.

Gal 3: 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

You are neglecting the fact that this is a part of a very long message given to the people at that time, through Moses. And later on in that same message, he went on to say:

"Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the LORD your God drives you, and you return to the LORD your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, that the LORD your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the LORD your God has scattered you. If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you. Then the LORD your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers. And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. Also the LORD your God will put all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. And you will again obey the voice of the LORD and do all His commandments which I command you today. The LORD your God will make you abound in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your land for good. For the LORD will again rejoice over you for good as He rejoiced over your fathers, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." Deuteronomy 30:1-10

This, indeed is a conditional promise, but other promises made in later years included the unconditional promise that they would indeed finally repent, thus meeting the conditions of this conditional promise.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

And even later on than that, Moses warned them of their "latter days"(Deut 31:29 through chapter 32) which would be a "crooked and perverse generation" fulfilled Matthew 17:17, Phil 2:15, Acts 2:40.
Yes, and indeed they did repent when John the Baptist called for everyone to repent and be baptised for the remission of sin. Old Covenant Israel disappeared with the destruction of the temple in 70 ad. Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

And even later on than that, Moses warned them of their "latter days"(Deut 31:29 through chapter 32) which would be a "crooked and perverse generation" fulfilled Matthew 17:17, Phil 2:15, Acts 2:40.
Yes, and indeed they did repent when John the Baptist called for everyone to repent and be baptised for the remission of sin. Old Covenant Israel disappeared with the destruction of the temple in 70 ad. Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

 

[Biblewriter]

And as you read through the books of the prophets, you will see repeated warnings that they would be destroyed and carried away. But again and again, these warnings ended with a promise that they would eventually be restored. Ezekiel 36 very clearly says that the land will again be inhabited by "all the house of Israel, all of it." and Ezekiel 47 very precisely defines the borders of the land in that future day. It is simple nonsense to even try to pretend that these explicitly made unconditional promises have been fulfilled.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

It's not a matter if the restoration takes place, but when and how. Is one looking for a heavenly country and city or an earthly country and city. Hebrews 11

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's not a matter if the restoration takes place, but when and how. Is one looking for a heavenly country and city or an earthly country and city. Hebrews 11

I am looking for heavenly, as are believing jews, the ultimate destination far greater than any land on this earth.

But that does not negate gods eternal promise to them.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

But that does not negate gods eternal promise to them.

Gen 17: 7“I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.
If, the land was given unconditionally to the Jews forever, why then, since Christ, they have not possessed the land and there sits a pagan temple for the last 1300 years?

 

[Biblewriter]

Gen 17: 7“I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.
If, the land was given unconditionally to the Jews forever, why then, since Christ, they have not possessed the land and there sits a pagan temple for the last 1300 years?

They were temporarily cast out, two different times. And they will be once more time. But after that, they will be brought back to stay there forever.

 

[Ed Parenteau]

Acts 3: 22"Moses said, THE LORD GOD WILL RAISE UP FOR YOU A PROPHET LIKE ME FROM YOUR BRETHREN; TO HIM YOU SHALL GIVE HEED to everything He says to you. 23And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.'
Strong's Concordance
exolethreuó: to destroy utterly
Original Word: ἐξολοθρεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: exolethreuó
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-ol-oth-ryoo'-o)
Short Definition: I destroy utterly, annihilate
Definition: I destroy utterly, annihilate, exterminate, root out.

HELPS Word-studies
1842 eksolothreúō (from 1537 /ek, "completely out from," intensifying 3645/olothreúō, "destroy, slay") – properly, totally destroy, referring to a complete loss of inheritance (reward).

That only leaves the remnant, the grafted in gentiles who were made fellow citizens, and those who are grafted in again, which is all israel, known to us as the church. And if the fullness of the gentiles hasn't already happened, then those who were cut out would not be able to be grafted in again, but many are. The Bible doesn't teach universalism, and therefore there is no universal salvation of Israel at some point in time. Romans 11: 23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief(a conditional statement), will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Acts 3: 22"Moses said, THE LORD GOD WILL RAISE UP FOR YOU A PROPHET LIKE ME FROM YOUR BRETHREN; TO HIM YOU SHALL GIVE HEED to everything He says to you. 23And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.'
Strong's Concordance
exolethreuó: to destroy utterly
Original Word: ἐξολοθρεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: exolethreuó
Phonetic Spelling: (ex-ol-oth-ryoo'-o)
Short Definition: I destroy utterly, annihilate
Definition: I destroy utterly, annihilate, exterminate, root out.

HELPS Word-studies
1842 eksolothreúō (from 1537 /ek, "completely out from," intensifying 3645/olothreúō, "destroy, slay") – properly, totally destroy, referring to a complete loss of inheritance (reward).

That only leaves the remnant, the grafted in gentiles who were made fellow citizens, and those who are grafted in again, which is all israel, known to us as the church. And if the fullness of the gentiles hasn't already happened, then those who were cut out would not be able to be grafted in again, but many are. The Bible doesn't teach universalism, and therefore there is no universal salvation of Israel at some point in time. Romans 11: 23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief(a conditional statement), will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

In romans 11, actually in any scripture passage, the remnant concerns isreal only, no gentile is ever considered to be part of the remnant.