Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[Danthemailman]

Oh for goodness sakes DMM...
As I've said to you before:
There's is NO SUCH CONCEPT in the N.T. as
works salvation.

And 874 is soooo complicated when the N.T. is soooo simple.

One BELIEVES in Jesus................one is saved.
One doe NOT BELIEVE in Jesus.....one is NOT saved.

BELIEVE....present tense.
BELIEVE means to OBEY.

See? It's easy.

Believe means to entrust our spiritual well being to Christ. Obedience which follows is works. It's easy, yet you just demonstrated the concept of works salvation.

 

[GodsGrace101]

At the end of Paul's life, pretty much everyone deserted him.

9Make every effort to come to me soon; 10for Demas, having loved this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica; Crescens has gone to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia. 11Only Luke is with me. Pick up Mark and bring him with you, for he is useful to me for service. 12But Tychicus I have sent to Ephesus.13When you come bring the cloak which I left at Troas with Carpus, and the books, especially the parchments.14Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. 15Be on guard against him yourself, for he vigorously opposed our teaching.

16At my first defense no one supported me, but all deserted me; may it not be counted against them.

1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So Paul was teaching that it will actually be him saved as if through fire, because he had so many of his converts desert him and were burned up?

How badly will people rip apart the bible to defend their pet doctrines? Pretty far I guess.

?? I don't know what you're talking about.

For those reading along, following are some commentaries regarding 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 which speaks of the works of the ministers of God, or the Apostles, or those who work to spread the Word of God.

Mathew Henry:
Those who spread true and pure religion in all its branches, and whose work will abide in the great day, shall receive a reward. And how great! how much exceeding their deserts! There are others, whose corrupt opinions and doctrines, or vain inventions and usages in the worship of God, shall be made known, disowned, and rejected, in that day. This is plainly meant of a figurative fire, not of a real one; for what real fire can consume religious rites or doctrines? And it is to try every man's works, those of Paul and Apollos, as well as others. Let us consider the tendency of our undertakings, compare them with God's word, and judge ourselves, that we be not judged of the Lord.


Barne's Notes on the Bible
The meaning is, that no true church can be reared which does not embrace and hold the true doctrines respecting him - those which pertain to his incarnation, his divine nature, his instructions, his example, his atonement, his resurrection, and ascension. The reason why no true church can be established without embracing the truth as it is in Christ is, that it is by him only that people can be saved; and where This doctrine is missing, all is missing that enters into the essential idea of a church. The fundamental doctrines of the Christian religion must be embraced, or a church cannot exist and where those doctrines are denied no association of people can be recognized as a church of God.


Mathew Poole
Can in this text doth not signify a mere natural power, but a rightful power: No man by any just right or authority can lay any other foundation, can preach any other doctrine of salvation, than that which I have already preached, which is the doctrine of salvation by Jesus Christ.

Gill's Exposition
but men ought to lay no other, nor can they, that will be of any advantage to themselves or others:

than that which is laid; by Jehovah the Father, both in his eternal counsels and covenant, when he set forth and appointed Christ to be the Saviour and Redeemer of his people; and in the fulness of time, when he sent him forth under the same characters; and by the Spirit of God, when he reveals Christ to them, and forms him in them; and by the ministers of the Gospel, who jointly agree to lay him ministerially, as the foundation for souls to build their hope upon: hence he is called the "foundation of the apostles and prophets", as here,

which is Jesus Christ; he is the foundation personally considered,


source: biblehub

 

[GodsGrace101]

Believe means to entrust our spiritual well being to Christ. Obedience which follows is works. It's easy, yet you just demonstrated the concept of works salvation.

Which works save us?

 

[Gr8Grace]

?? I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't believe that. It's a valid point, so you have to plead ignorance.

If your theory of 1 Cor 3:15 is true......then it is Paul who will be saved as if through fire and suffer loss...........because at the end of his life pretty much everybody left him..........as his work( all his converts/MAN) were burned up. It is borderline insanity how you portray 1 Cor 3:15.

We are responsible for our OWN salvation and advancing in the Christian life. "Work out your OWN salvation....." The evangelist who you meet on the street corner is NOT going to be held responsible for your decision and subsequent life. SMH.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I don't believe that. It's a valid point, so you have to plead ignorance.

If your theory of 1 Cor 3:15 is true......then it is Paul who will be saved as if through fire and suffer loss...........because at the end of his life pretty much everybody left him..........as his work( all his converts/MAN) were burned up.

You could read about this Gr8Grace.
Don't take my word for it.
I still don't know what you mean.

The verses are talking about God's ministers, disciples, teachers, pastors,,,those who build on the foundation.

Paul laid the foundation,,,which is Christ.
Do you think he didn't lay the proper foundation?
Please read the verses again. I believe you've misunderstood the point.

And you don't have to be so accusatory all the time.
Why would I feign ignorance?
Does it seem to you that I'm not sure about what I post?
Do YOU post verses you're not convinced about?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm just here to tell you that 1 Corinthians 3:15 the FIRE is not referring to saved persons...it refers to those that are ministers for God.

So then, ministers for God are unsaved?? Really? What in the world are you trying to say?

1 Cor 3-
14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Yep, clear as a bell. The "builder" though "suffering loss" "yet will be saved".

Real clear. The builder is a saved person. The verse is about saved persons.

But I can see where your loss of salvation must come from: totally misreading certain verses.

Verse 15 Even if the WORK of the MAN is burned up because it was built on wood, hay and straw, the WORK will be burned up but the worker will be saved.

Yep. The worker will be saved. This is about saved persons.

1 Corinthians 3 is not speaking about the believer but about those that draw us to God and teach us about Him.

So again, just re-read your own words. It clearly sounds as though those who draw us to God and teach us about Him are unsaved, or unbelievers.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That should have been John 5:14
God forgives a whole lot better than YOU do!

Why do you persist in judging my soul? Where is the evidence that I didn't forgive you of your error? I asked if you proof read before you post. Is that unforgiveness?

How should I know your errors. I can only respond to what you post. So it would be wise to proof read before posting.

As to the rest...it's becoming repetitive since you don't seem to understand what believe means.

Your opinion makes no difference.

In fact, you really do need to learn about exegesis.

Since you haven't, why would you tell someone else to do what you haven't done?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Behavior is burned!
Oh. This is a new one.
Is that why there will be WEEPING and GNASHING of teeth?
I believe those reading along can see how wrong you are so maybe I'm not needed here anymore...

Given your wild response here, it is clear to me that no explanation will get through.

 

[Lady Bug]

That passage in Corinthians I thought was about saved people who do "bad" works have their works burned but are barely saved as through fire...in spite of the problems with OSAS that I mentioned in this thread, this passage does refer to saved people...

 

[JLB777]

What you teach is false. The Bible says those who believe possess eternal life.

Not "will some day MAYBE AS LONG AS THEY KEEP THEIR NOSES CLEAN, His sheep will inherit eternal life".

You are so twisted and deceitful that you have to make up lies about what I said, then proceed to argue about what I didn’t say.


Here is what I said and the scripture that shows where my belief comes from.


I teach that the result of hearing His Voice and following Him, (obeying Him) is to be given, which is to say, inherit eternal life.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. John 10:27-28


The scripture you keep referring to is the very scripture that refutes and disproves your entire theology.


Quite ironic isn’t it.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace101]

So then, ministers for God are unsaved?? Really? What in the world are you trying to say?

1 Cor 3-
14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Yep, clear as a bell. The "builder" though "suffering loss" "yet will be saved".

Real clear. The builder is a saved person. The verse is about saved persons.

But I can see where your loss of salvation must come from: totally misreading certain verses.


Yep. The worker will be saved. This is about saved persons.


So again, just re-read your own words. It clearly sounds as though those who draw us to God and teach us about Him are unsaved, or unbelievers.

Do you understand English well?
You could reread my posts regarding this again since you have obviously misunderstood every word I've said.

And since you misunderstood that, you might actually misunderstand both scripture and everything some here have been saying about it. Which explains a lot.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Why do you persist in judging my soul? Where is the evidence that I didn't forgive you of your error? I asked if you proof read before you post. Is that unforgiveness?

How should I know your errors. I can only respond to what you post. So it would be wise to proof read before posting.

I've been posting to you for almost three years now.
This is the first time I made a slight mistake in a number.
You could have assumed I made a mistake instead of telling me that the verse has nothing to do with what we were discussing. You must really not understand people at all.

As to proof-reading; LOL It's not like this is all I have to do. If I proof-read, it'll take me twice as long to post anything. I rarely make mistakes. It's not a mistake to speak to you because you know why I do this. It's not for YOU.

Since you haven't, why would you tell someone else to do what you haven't done?

You're referring to exegesis...
Yes. You really should learn more about how it's done.

 

[GodsGrace101]

That passage in Corinthians I thought was about saved people who do "bad" works have their works burned but are barely saved as through fire...in spite of the problems with OSAS that I mentioned in this thread, this passage does refer to saved people...

It's not about saved people that do bad works.
Please read it again.

1 Corinthians 3:8-17
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building. (THIS is referring to US)
The green is referring to those who work for God...who preach His word, as Paul did for instance, but also priests, pastors, those who witness, etc.

10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

I used to think it was speaking about us too.
When read carefully it becomes apparent that it is not, but is speaking about those who teach and BUILD UPON THE FOUNDATION.
It is NOT specifically about Paul as one poster here believes.

 

[GodsGrace101]

You are so twisted and deceitful that you have to make up lies about what I said, then proceed to argue about what I didn’t say.


Here is what I said and the scripture that shows where my belief comes from.


I teach that the result of hearing His Voice and following Him, (obeying Him) is to be given, which is to say, inherit eternal life.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. John 10:27-28


The scripture you keep referring to is the very scripture that refutes and disproves your entire theology.


Quite ironic isn’t it.


JLB

Yes, I also have been finding this ironic.
The scripture one poster refers to is the very scripture that refutes what he is stating!

I believe it's verse 27 that is causing him the problem.
He likes to disregard that verse...

John 10:27-28 Jesus said.
27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

Jesus gives ETERNAL LIFE TO THEM.
Who is THEM?
HIS SHEEP, who hear His voice,
He knows them,
THEY follow Him.

God has always had conditions to be a member of His Kingdom...

As long as the above conditions are met, THEY WILL have eternal life...

THEY...
Those that:
Hear
Are known
Follow

Very simple. Jesus spoke to simple people and wanted them to understand what He was saying. It's not necessary to be a theologian to understand the N.T. (although it helps).

 

[Danthemailman]

Which works save us?

John 6:28 - Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

 

[JLB777]

I believe it's verse 27 that is causing him the problem.
He likes to disregard that verse..

Yes. He refuses to quote the scripture itself. Only claiming what he wants the scripture to say, then tagging his opinion with John 10:28 knowing that it begins with the word “and”, in which it is connected to the previous verse which states the condition for receiving what verse 28 promises.


Very deceitful.

John 10:27-28 Jesus said.
27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

Jesus gives ETERNAL LIFE TO THEM.
Who is THEM?
HIS SHEEP, who hear His voice,
He knows them,
THEY follow Him.

So true.



JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

It's not about saved people that do bad works.
Please read it again.

1 Corinthians 3:8-17
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building. (THIS is referring to US)
The green is referring to those who work for God...who preach His word, as Paul did for instance, but also priests, pastors, those who witness, etc.

10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

I used to think it was speaking about us too.
When read carefully it becomes apparent that it is not, but is speaking about those who teach and BUILD UPON THE FOUNDATION.
It is NOT specifically about Paul as one poster here believes.

I don't believe it is about Paul. YOU do.
Paul(A teacher/minister/pastor/evangelist)tell's us that pretty much everybody deserted him at the end of His life. If they fell away from Paul, they fell away from the truth and were burned up according to your theory/theology.

So Paul must have been saved as if through fire and suffered great loss, since most of his converts ended up burning in hell fire.......according to your theory.

 

[JLB777]

John 6:28 - Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Believe means trust and commit to obey.

The work that justifies and saves is obedience.


Obeying the Gospel.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

That passage in Corinthians I thought was about saved people who do "bad" works have their works burned but are barely saved as through fire...in spite of the problems with OSAS that I mentioned in this thread, this passage does refer to saved people...

They aren't "barely saved". They are saved. Nothing "barely" about it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are so twisted and deceitful that you have to make up lies about what I said, then proceed to argue about what I didn’t say.

Nope. I've just exposed all your false doctrine. Which you don't like very much.

Here is what I said and the scripture that shows where my belief comes from.

Your beliefs are REFUTED by Scripture.

I teach that the result of hearing His Voice and following Him, (obeying Him) is to be given, which is to say, inherit eternal life.

I've already REFUTED that false teaching with a long list of verses about both salvation and eternal life. They are obtained by faith in Christ. Nothing about lifestyle.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. John 10:27-28

Nothing here about having to follow to receive eternal life.

The wording itself REFUTES your wrong understanding. v.27 is clearly a description of His sheep. It's what they do. There are NO WORDS that indicate a condition for being His sheep, which is your faulty claim.

The condition for being saved (being His sheep) is found earlier in John 10.
9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

This verse, which you have to reject to hold on to your own false views, refutes your views.

The verse is a metaphor for faith in Christ. That's who becomes His sheep.

But you are not interested in the truth. Only your own wrong opinions.

The scripture you keep referring to is the very scripture that refutes and disproves your entire theology.

This is hilarious. In fact, this statement applies directly to yourself. So look in the closest mirror when you repeat that.

Quite ironic isn’t it.

Yes, very ironic that your claims apply to yourself.