Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[GodsGrace101]

How does the notion that one can lose salvation edify anyone?

Because it removes a false sense of security.
It will keep many from losing their salvation because they go back to a life of sin or because they don't believe that losing faith will make them lose their salvation.

Edification is of no value unless it's truthful. We don't "edify" persons just to make them feel good. We make them feel good by telling them the truth.

What is the truth? That satan ensnares even born again believers. He loves what you say because it goes against what God says and some may even believe the lie.

This is the truth and it's easy to read in the N.T.:
Every man falls short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

The wages of sin is spiritual death; separation from God.
Ephesians 2:1

Jesus died for us.
Romans 5:8

We are redeemed by the blood of Christ.
1 Peter 1:18-19

We are saved by BELIEVING in Christ.
Acts 16:30-31


As easy as that.

Believe and you are saved.
Do not believe and you are not saved.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Even you don't get that idea from any Greek lexicon.


All these words are directed TO the Lord Jesus Christ for what He did for you.

They don't mean that He trusts you, or is faithful to you, or loyal to you, in any way.


It makes much better sense to view John 15 as a call to fellowship, whereby the believer is able to bear fruit. Being out of fellowship means the believer is unable to bear fruit.

James is about demonstrating one's faith before others so that others can SEE their faith.


That's exactly what fellowship is all about!!

Why don't you forget about Greek lexicons and learn from expert bible hermeneutics? It's all been done for you by very learned men...no need for you to look up any word, just believe what the N.T. says.

The N.T. was written so that we may be saved...
So that we may be members of the Kingdom of God here on earth. Not so we could treat God as a "buddy".

James says faith without works is dead...because those with faith do works. We are exhorted to do good works:

James 2:26
26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Hebrews 10:24
24And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Titus 2:7-8
7Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, 8and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.

 

[Gr8Grace]

We are saved by BELIEVING in Christ.
Acts 16:30-31


As easy as that.

Believe and you are saved.

And the very next promise to the believer at that moment(the moment of salvation) is we will not, no not ever come into condemnation John 5:24. We will never, no not ever perish. We have eternal life forever. John 10:28

We have been saved, are saved and will be saved forever! Eph 2:8;4. No loopholes.No questions. We are saved and secure in Christ forever.

 

[JLB777]

These who have done good can be the only one who were born of God because only God is good . So they have eternal life and do all the works not to obtain it but because they have obtained it .

I agree it is only those who have the nature of Christ, and been empowered by His Spirit who can do good.


However there are those who are born again who still walk according to the flesh and practice the works of the flesh.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

again

• the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


again


For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:5-7



because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Therefore do not be partakers with them.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

A believer recognizes(cuts out his eye) his sin and names and sites it to God. And we are again back in fellowship.

What happens when the believer doesn’t stop his sin and continues to sin, without ever repenting until he dies?

Jesus is saying if you can’t stop sinning it would be better to cut out your eye that to lose your soul to eternal damnation.


But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Matthew 5:28-30

JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

What happens when the believer doesn’t stop his sin and continues to sin, without ever repenting until he dies?

You should know this by now JLB. At least I have enough respect for you, that I read and understand what you believe. And I debate the things that you believe that I disagree with.

Answer:

That believer, will be given Grace because He is patient. But if that believer continues in reversionism and does not rebound there are multiple things that can happen. A life of reaping what they sow. A life of misery. Severe discipline. Loss of rewards,that are ETERNAL by the way, loss of blessings in time and eternity, loss of reign with Him,SHAME at His Bema seat and a host of other things that can happen to that believer.

But loss of salvation or never really being saved is not one of them. I don't see how anyone can look at that list above and think........I'm saved, now I am going to SIN ALL I WANT.... they better get ready for MISERY if they do.

 

[GodsGrace101]

And the very next promise to the believer at that moment(the moment of salvation) is we will not, no not ever come into condemnation John 5:24. We will never, no not ever perish. We have eternal life forever. John 10:28

We have been saved, are saved and will be saved forever! Eph 2:8;4. No loopholes.No questions. We are saved and secure in Christ forever.

You're free to believe what you like...
Even if plain common sense tells smart folk that you're wrong.

 

[Gr8Grace]

You're free to believe what you like...

No I am not.
I have to believe what His Word says. Even though I would love to say that loss of salvation believers are not really saved. His Word tells me we can grieve and quench His Spirit and act even WORSE than unbelievers.

Even if plain common sense tells smart folk that you're wrong.

I am sure everyone has noticed that you did not and will not prove that the periphrastic PERFECT was not used in Eph 2:8 and 4. If what your spouting is true.........It could not have possibly been used.

 

[Lady Bug]

My mind is all over the place...

I feel completely hopeless because there's really no way of knowing you're truly saved if you put works into the mix (even though I know faith without works is dead) because there's no recipe for what works are required to show that you're truly saved or how much of those works you have to show to prove you're saved. I know about the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians but try as I might I cannot perfectly demonstrate those fruits. For example, joy is something I simply struggle with having. Every day we sin so the concept of living in sin could apply to everyone because not a day goes by that we aren't committing some sort of sin, if not physically then it's always in the head. If OSAS were true I'd actually feel less inclined to sin because my brain will relax knowing that I'm filled with the Holy Spirit and that whatever I do for God is out of sheer reverence and not trepidation. If it is not true, then what is the difference between Christianity and other religions that mandate works to show you're in good standing with God? I know the statement that works don't save you but show you're saved, but to me it doesn't make sense that "works don't save you but if you don't have the works you're not saved."

 

[BNR32FAN]

Because it removes a false sense of security.
It will keep many from losing their salvation because they go back to a life of sin or because they don't believe that losing faith will make them lose their salvation.

Edification is of no value unless it's truthful. We don't "edify" persons just to make them feel good. We make them feel good by telling them the truth.

What is the truth? That satan ensnares even born again believers. He loves what you say because it goes against what God says and some may even believe the lie.

This is the truth and it's easy to read in the N.T.:
Every man falls short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

The wages of sin is spiritual death; separation from God.
Ephesians 2:1

Jesus died for us.
Romans 5:8

We are redeemed by the blood of Christ.
1 Peter 1:18-19

We are saved by BELIEVING in Christ.
Acts 16:30-31


As easy as that.

Believe and you are saved.
Do not believe and you are not saved.

“You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:19-20‬

Jesus said this to His apostles

““I am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more. You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me. “Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples. This brings great glory to my Father.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-8‬

To be saved you must believe, repent, be baptized and born again, and continue to walk in the Spirit. You can turn away from God as long as before you die or before Jesus returns you better be back into repentance. Otherwise you’ll burn in the lake of fire.

 

[GodsGrace101]

No I am not.
I have to believe what His Word says. Even though I would love to say that loss of salvation believers are not really saved. His Word tells me we can grieve and quench His Spirit and act even WORSE than unbelievers.

I am sure everyone has noticed that you did not and will not prove that the periphrastic PERFECT was not used in Eph 2:8 and 4. If what your spouting is true.........It could not have possibly been used.

Eternal Security is not biblical.
It was invented by John Calvin in about 1,500 AD.

So YOU do not believe the bible... you believe John Calvin, as do all those who believe in OSAS which comes from...

Preservation of the Saints as found in Calvinism
(which by the way, teaches salvation by works...look it up)

Then it became knows as:
Eternal Security

And today is known as:
OSAS

As to the periphrastic perfect tense...
You're funny.
I don't know what it is,
I don't care to know what it is.
Jesus spoke plainly,,, no need to know tenses.

BELIEVE is PRESENT TENSE.
That's all one needs to know.

 

[Lady Bug]

the Calvinist version of Eternal Security isn't the same as OSAS...

Calvinist version is like..."if you fall away at the last moment of your life you were never truly saved for all those years of your life...you are eternal secure if you are obedient your whole life" but with that method you can never know you're eternal secure until you're dead.

 

[GodsGrace101]

the Calvinist version of Eternal Security isn't the same as OSAS...

Calvinist version is like..."if you fall away at the last moment of your life you were never truly saved for all those years of your life...you are eternal secure if you are obedient your whole life" but with that method you can never know you're eternal secure until you're dead.

Agreed!
I tell them they can't know they're saved till the end, but we're all brainwashed in one way or another. We all think we're right.

That is, however, where the idea of OSAS came from.
It never existed before.

Also, Calvin believed they had to have good works to PROVE their salvation.

What a contradiction!

 

[Lady Bug]

how is what Calvin said really any different than what some of us are saying though?

 

[GodsGrace101]

the Calvinist version of Eternal Security isn't the same as OSAS...

Calvinist version is like..."if you fall away at the last moment of your life you were never truly saved for all those years of your life...you are eternal secure if you are obedient your whole life" but with that method you can never know you're eternal secure until you're dead.

Cute kitten.
Here's mine:

 

[GodsGrace101]

how is what Calvin said really any different than what some of us are saying though?

They believe GOD chooses them...so how can they be sure they're one of the chosen? Just like you said. One of their questions is how they could know they're really saved.

We believe WE choose God after He reveals Himself first, of course. So we can be sure of our salvation because WE KNOW we CHOSE HIM also. We don't have to ask ourselves how we could know if we're saved. If we choose God, we're saved.

As far as works...they believe that if they're saved they'll do good works till the end. This is almost like saying that they have to be doing good works all the time just to prove they're saved.

We believe we do good works as a result of our salvation. I'm happy to be a member of the Kingdom and to do what I can...even if it's just smiling at people. I don't have to PROVE that I'm saved. The way I could lose my salvation is by doing the opposite of what I did to get it... NOT BELIEVE, by abandoning God, by returning to a life of sin, which shows that I do NOT love Him or respect Him or worship Him. (we are forgiven for sins or just sinning).

Do you see the difference?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
How does the notion that one can lose salvation edify anyone?

Because it removes a false sense of security.

First, Jesus taught eternal security, and no one has proven John 10:28 teaches the opposite, or even "something else".

Second, there's nothing edifying by removing the assurance of security, which Jesus taught, but you refuse to accept.

It will keep many from losing their salvation because they go back to a life of sin or because they don't believe that losing faith will make them lose their salvation.

This is just awful. Why would a "life of sin" result in loss of salvation? Jesus died for ALL sin. So your opinion is against Scripture. And there aren't any verses that support your claims here. None.

Edification is of no value unless it's truthful. We don't "edify" persons just to make them feel good. We make them feel good by telling them the truth.

This isn't about feeling good anyway. So your opinion is wrong again. Edification is to BUILD UP one's faith, not make them feel good.

How is one's faith built up by the claim that they'd better watch their step or their Heavenly Father will send them to hell?? That's just horrible, and totally lacks the grace of God.

The point of one's guaranteed security is to create a sense of gratitude that just as there is nothing that one can do to earn salvation, in the same way, there's nothing they can do to lose it, and this should draw that person closer to the Lord, knowing they are secure.

The problem that I've seen repeated with your ilk is your "automatic" default that "if" one is secure, then they will just go out and live like hell. Such an attitude seems pretty universal among your ilk.

But, while there may be some idiots among the OSAS crowd who think like that, it's sure not universal at all.

And when doctrinal truth is BALANCED by the doctrine of God's discipline for rebellion, people know that they won't "get away" with anything.

What is the truth? That satan ensnares even born again believers.

He sure does, and we see it every day on this forum when posters claim that salvation can be lost.

What this demonic teaching does is create a "works salvation" type of thinking; that one MUST "live right" in order to get to heaven. Which totally dismisses the fact that Jesus did it ALL. So the view is blasphemous. And satan sure loves that!!

He loves what you say because it goes against what God says and some may even believe the lie.

Pure and sheer nonsense. Jesus taught it and John 10:28 crushes your demonic doctrine.

This is the truth and it's easy to read in the N.T.:
Every man falls short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

The wages of sin is spiritual death; separation from God.
Ephesians 2:1

Jesus died for us.
Romans 5:8

We are redeemed by the blood of Christ.
1 Peter 1:18-19

We are saved by BELIEVING in Christ.
Acts 16:30-31


As easy as that.

Believe and you are saved.
Do not believe and you are not saved.

But you believe MORE than this. You believe that if one ceases to believe, they cease to be saved. And that without any evidence at all from Scripture.

You begin this part by noting that Scripture is easy to read.

So where are all these "easy to read" verses that teach that ceasing to believe results in ceasing to be saved? huh?

Instead, we have "easy to read" verses like these:

Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The red words are words of eternal security, for those whose eyes and ears are open.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Paul, who also wrote Ephesians, wrote "guaranteeing what is to come" TWICE in 2 Cor.

Why is that? He was emphasizing our security about what is to come.

What is to come is our inheritance as God's possession.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why don't you forget about Greek lexicons and learn from expert bible hermeneutics? It's all been done for you by very learned men...no need for you to look up any word, just believe what the N.T. says.

So, where does this "expert hermeneutics" come from? And I DO believe what the NT says. Unlike you.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish.

But you believe that a saved person (recipient of eternal life) CAN perish.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And the very next promise to the believer at that moment(the moment of salvation) is we will not, no not ever come into condemnation John 5:24. We will never, no not ever perish. We have eternal life forever. John 10:28

GG101 doesn't believe any of this.

 

[FreeGrace2]

My mind is all over the place...

I feel completely hopeless because there's really no way of knowing you're truly saved if you put works into the mix (even though I know faith without works is dead) because there's no recipe for what works are required to show that you're truly saved or how much of those works you have to show to prove you're saved.

Please just read John 5:24 and John 10:28 over and over until they both sink in.

I know the statement that works don't save you but show you're saved, but to me it doesn't make sense that "works don't save you but if you don't have the works you're not saved."

Just know that this statement is false. Unbiblical. Don't believe it.

Believe that when one believes, they are:
1. saved forever
2. justified forever
3. forgiven forever
4. adopted as sons of God forever
5. sealed with the Spirit for the day of redemption

That said, believers are saved for doing good works (Eph 2:10). That's what we're supposed to do.

However, God's discipline is painful, per Heb 12:11, so no one will get away with anything.