Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[FreeGrace2]

The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is to believe.

Check.

Those who believe for a while, then return to unbelieving no longer meet the required condition of believing.

Except your statement is based on a false premise. Where is the verse that states that the Holy Spirit is conditioned on ANYTHING from the one who has believed?

Hint: there aren't any conditions, as you wrongly state.

Those having believed (past tense) ARE sealed. And this seal is a deposit that guarantees the believer's inheritance until redemption as God's possession.

Eph 1-
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

But you refuse to believe any of this.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

"believe for a while" and "fall away" are the same thing.

What they "fell away" from was their believing.

If Jesus wanted to make clear that one can lose salvation, this is what it would look like:

"and these have no root, who believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away from their salvation".

You still have zero evidence from Scripture that salvation can be lost.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB

Bogus question, based on a false premise.

Have you, otoh, stopped beating your wife YET? yes or no

Why don't you answer?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB

Every born again Christian STAYS saved, regardless of circumstances.

Please provide clear statements from Scripture that a saved person can become unsaved.

But I won't hold my breath. I KNOW you can't provide any such verse.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Wow. What a clear admission of just how much you don't know the Word of God!!

Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

So, who, exactly is sealed? "you", that's who. Every one who has believed.

Did you notice the past tense in the words "when you believed"?


ONLY if one believes that God will or can go back on His Word. But what a stupid idea that is, huh.

God doesn't lie. Ever. So when He says those who HAVE BELIEVED are marked or sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing or promising our inheritance until redemption as God's possession, He actually MEANS it.

But for some very strange reason, you don't believe God.


Rather than this display of hysteria, please share any verse that even suggests that anyone can "abandon" the Holy Spirit. I don't even know what that would look like.

But, if anyone is to take you seriously, you need to support your claims with Scripture.


Oh, yeah. Use metaphors to prove your points. Jesus used metaphors for the purpose of stating truth that rejectors couldn't understand to fulfill Scripture.

how about just a clear statement to support your claims?

I have given verses on eternal security that do not include parables, or metaphors that state the fact of eternal security.

Do you treat all girls this badly or do you really just love me?

Whatever method Jesus used to speak was acceptable to me and you can be sure He meant everything He said. I wonder if you know WHY He spoke in parables?

Let's see if THIS statement of Jesus is clear enough for you:

Mathew 19:28 JESUS SAID:
28And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Jesus said: You who have FOLLOWED ME. NOT You who used to follow me, or You who followed me for some time, or You who intended to follow me but didn't...

BTW, Did you reread 2 Timothy 2:12?
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

 

[JLB777]

Except your statement is based on a false premise. Where is the verse that states that the Holy Spirit is conditioned on ANYTHING from the one who has believed?

Believe is the condition for receiving the Holy Spirit.



Do those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, still believe or not?




JLB

 

[GodsGrace101]

Are you suggesting that any one verse ain't good enough for you?

Wowsers!

Doctrine does not from one verse come.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Believe is the condition for receiving the Holy Spirit.



Do those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, still believe or not?


JLB

Easy question!
Let's see if it can be answered correctly.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Post the verse and stop hiding your false doctrine.

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28

What will cause Jesus to give a person eternal life based on this verse?

OK, the verse I copy from biblestudytools.com doesn't include the "and" at the beginning of the verse.

So what? You've continued to prove NOTHING other than your penhant for refusing to believe very clear verses on eternal security.

So, you want to make the "and" a condition for something. OK, let's do.

What does the "and" indicate? It indicates that the condition for being given eternal life is to be His sheep, from v.27. Obviously. I don't bother to mention that because it is so obvious. And we KNOW how one becomes one of Jesus' sheep, from John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Now, go ahead and just try to prove that "entering throiugh Me" refers to lifestyle, behavior, deeds, works, or anything other than believing in Him for salvation.

If you can't prove that, you've not nothing at all.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I do believe I have.
Go back and read my posts,,,they're chock full of scripture.

And, as you should know by now, I have difficulty conversing with you when you start insulting.

I've never claimed otherwise about how much Scripture you're "chock full" of.

My point continues to be that NONE of it says that salvation can be lost.

otoh, I've provided very clear verses about eternal security, which you've rejected.

 

[JLB777]

Every born again Christian STAYS saved, regardless of circumstances.

That's your opinion.


What we need is what Jesus taught us in this passage.

Please provide clear statements from Scripture that a saved person can become unsaved.

The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd. They are his sheep.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


One sheep becomes lost.


Is the lost sheep saved or unsaved?




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

It's Catherine Zeta Jones.
I think she's beautiful.
And you should know what a younger version of me looks like...from an avatar I use a lot.

Of course it's a pic of KZJ, probably THE most beautiful woman in the world when that pic was taken. But how in the world should I know who I'm posting to?

I don't know anything about her. For all I know, she may be the one I'm posting to.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You should read 2 Timothy 2:12 again.

I've already expained it. It's your job, if you disagree, to "unpack" my explanation. Which you've thus far failed to do.

(And stop telling me I don't know English!!!)

I will when you prove that you do.

Maybe it's just "context" that you don't understand. So prove that you do. Unpack my explanation, which was all about context.

 

[JLB777]

OK, the verse I copy from biblestudytools.com doesn't include the "and" at the beginning of the verse.

So what? You've continued to prove NOTHING other than your penhant for refusing to believe very clear verses on eternal security.

So, you want to make the "and" a condition for something. OK, let's do.

What does the "and" indicate? It indicates that the condition for being given eternal life is to be His sheep, from v.27. Obviously. I don't bother to mention that because it is so obvious. And we KNOW how one becomes one of Jesus' sheep, from John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Now, go ahead and just try to prove that "entering throiugh Me" refers to lifestyle, behavior, deeds, works, or anything other than believing in Him for salvation.

If you can't prove that, you've not nothing at all.

Another big smoke screen to try and change the subject.


Just answer the question.


This is John 10:28, the scripture you keep claiming.


And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28


What will cause Jesus to give a person eternal life based on this verse?



JLB

 

[GodsGrace101]

OK, the verse I copy from biblestudytools.com doesn't include the "and" at the beginning of the verse.

So what? You've continued to prove NOTHING other than your penhant for refusing to believe very clear verses on eternal security.

So, you want to make the "and" a condition for something. OK, let's do.

What does the "and" indicate? It indicates that the condition for being given eternal life is to be His sheep, from v.27. Obviously. I don't bother to mention that because it is so obvious. And we KNOW how one becomes one of Jesus' sheep, from John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Now, go ahead and just try to prove that "entering throiugh Me" refers to lifestyle, behavior, deeds, works, or anything other than believing in Him for salvation.

If you can't prove that, you've not nothing at all.

FG,
You've been told MANY times on this thread, and elsewhere, that verse 27 tells us to whom Jesus gives eternal life. HIS SHEEP. HIS PRESENT SHEEP, not those of yesteryear. It's just that YOU don't care to know the truth..exactly what you accuse others of.

I suggest you use a different study tool...really.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I've already expained it. It's your job, if you disagree, to "unpack" my explanation. Which you've thus far failed to do.


I will when you prove that you do.

Maybe it's just "context" that you don't understand. So prove that you do. Unpack my explanation, which was all about context.

Here's the unpacking...
not much required.

The question was: What happens if we deny Jesus?

The answer is:

2 Timothy 2:12
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

And, as @JLB pointed out:

Mathew 10:33 JESUS SAID
33“But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

 

[GodsGrace101]

I've never claimed otherwise about how much Scripture you're "chock full" of.

My point continues to be that NONE of it says that salvation can be lost.

otoh, I've provided very clear verses about eternal security, which you've rejected.

John 10:28 proves nothing.
Could you post one scripture that plainly states that even if you live a life of sin or abandon God, you will still be saved?

These are very clear in stating that salvation can be lost:

Hebrews 6:4-6
2 Peter 2:20-22

And all the scripture about falling away, all the IF's, all the IF WE CONTINUE, all the IF we keep our faith....etc.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Of course it's a pic of KZJ, probably THE most beautiful woman in the world when that pic was taken. But how in the world should I know who I'm posting to?

I don't know anything about her. For all I know, she may be the one I'm posting to.

You wish!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Have you ever purchased a house?
A deposit guarantees nothing .... Either party could pull out of the deal till the last moment.
Even at closing,,,,

Wow. Is that really how you view God? As a shirker? Untrustworthy "party".

Eph 1:14 isn't about buying a house, for crying out loud. I can hardly believe I'm reading your words here.

Eph 1:14 is about the GUARANTEE (solemn promise) that the sealing of the Holy Spirit is for our inheritance until redemption as God's possession.

Why is that so hard to believe?

 

[FreeGrace2]

But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33

Yes, you've made it quite clear that you do not believe Jesus' promise to recipients of eternal life that they shall never perish.

Peter denied Him, and had to repent, and come back to Him to be reconciled back to Him.
JLB

And all this is about fellowship, not relationship, but about which you have made clear you know nothing about.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So based on your theology, a sheep who is lost is still saved?

If by "sheep", you mean one of Jesus' sheep, He told us that He gives them eternal life and they shall never perish. Why don't you believe that?

Is that what your teaching God's people?

Please believe what Jesus taught about recipients of eternal life.