Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[JLB777]

I said:
"The truth is the Word of God. Some of which you simply don't believe, based on your posts.

What Jesus said in John 10:28 was as clear as could be. There is nothing difficult in that verse. Jesus was speaking about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

The CAUSE of having (possessing eternal life) is Jesus Himself, proven by "I give them eternal life".

The EFFECT of having (possessing eternal life) is never perishing, proven by "and they shall never, no, not ever, perish".

If you disagree, please prove your disagreement. But what He said was very clear."

I do believe you haven't.

btw, lodging a disagreement isn't an explanation of anything. You have clearly communicated that your view is QUITE DIFFERENT than what Jesus plainly said.


Of course I don't. Your disagreement cannot be supported from Scripture.

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'M snarky?
You're funny.
Now, if you were as good looking as OSAS101, you coulda maybe been a catch for some lucky girl.

I leave you to the others.
Till next time,,,

yep. More snark.

ps: is your icon a younger version of you? Or are you just teasing?

 

[FreeGrace2]

GodsGrace101 said: ↑
Kings would put a seal on an order of theirs. So, could the order be rescinded? Of course!

Gods seal can be rescinded?

Her comment only shows just how far out of touch with Scripture her views are.

John 6:27~~New American Standard Bible
"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."

I find it very disconcerting that a Christian believes that the Father will perhaps rescind the Son's seal.

Esp given the promise, guarantee, pledge (solemn promise) God has given every believer regarding their being sealed with the Holy Spirit.

But they just keep resisting the Holy Spirit. Just like Acts 7:51 says.

 

[JLB777]

What Jesus said in John 10:28 was as clear as could be.

Post the verse and stop hiding your false doctrine.


And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:28


What will cause Jesus to give a person eternal life based on this verse?



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Gr8Grace said: ↑
Count me as one. I am a baby in bible doctrine,

That’s for sure.

I think the point is that he is IN Bible doctrine, unlike those who have shown their total resistance to truth.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I said:
"The truth is the Word of God. Some of which you simply don't believe, based on your posts.

What Jesus said in John 10:28 was as clear as could be. There is nothing difficult in that verse. Jesus was speaking about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.

The CAUSE of having (possessing eternal life) is Jesus Himself, proven by "I give them eternal life".

The EFFECT of having (possessing eternal life) is never perishing, proven by "and they shall never, no, not ever, perish".

If you disagree, please prove your disagreement. But what He said was very clear."

I do believe you haven't.

btw, lodging a disagreement isn't an explanation of anything. You have clearly communicated that your view is QUITE DIFFERENT than what Jesus plainly said.


Of course I don't. Your disagreement cannot be supported from Scripture.

I do believe I have.
Go back and read my posts,,,they're chock full of scripture.

And, as you should know by now, I have difficulty conversing with you when you start insulting.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Gr8Grace said: ↑
Count me as one. I am a baby in bible doctrine,

I think the point is that he is IN Bible doctrine, unlike those who have shown their total resistance to truth.

What is the truth?
That you could Not Believe in God and still be saved?
John 3:16

 

[FreeGrace2]

Dan the deacon said: ↑
Really? If you deny Christ, what does scripture say Christ does?

He denies you.

JLB

There you go again, adding words to Scripture that aren't there, just to promote your own opinion and presumptions.

The context (which you seem to love to ignore) is reigning with Christ, found in v.12A.

So, the "denial" in v.12B is in context of what is earned for enduring, which is reigning with Christ. So what is denied is the opposite of what is earned.

Those who deny Him will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.

I expect those who have blatantly rejected the teaching of Jesus regarding the FACT that recipients of eternal life shall never perish and claim in total opposition CAN perish will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.

 

[GodsGrace101]

yep. More snark.

ps: is your icon a younger version of you? Or are you just teasing?

It's Catherine Zeta Jones.
I think she's beautiful.
And you should know what a younger version of me looks like...from an avatar I use a lot.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Those who do not abide, remain in Christ as well as His teaching no longer has Christ.

I, otoh, believe what Paul wrote about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit. That it is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession, as Eph 1:14 says.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6

Because of Eph 1;13,14 and John 10:28, this verse CANNOT refer to loss of salvation.

Once a person is in Christ, they have access to the eternal life which is in Him.

No, they don't "have access" to eternal life. But then again, you don't believe what Jesus said in John 10:28 either. He SAID "I GIVE them eternal life".

Here's what He DIDN'T say: "I give them "access to" eternal life".

Please STOP adding to Scripture.

If they are removed from Him, they are no longer joined to the eternal life which is in Him.

No one can be removed from Christ, because all believers have been sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Yes, it's clear that you have rejected the clear truth of Eph 1:13,14 and John 10:28.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Dan the deacon said: ↑
Really? If you deny Christ, what does scripture say Christ does?

There you go again, adding words to Scripture that aren't there, just to promote your own opinion and presumptions.

The context (which you seem to love to ignore) is reigning with Christ, found in v.12A.

So, the "denial" in v.12B is in context of what is earned for enduring, which is reigning with Christ. So what is denied is the opposite of what is earned.

Those who deny Him will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.

I expect those who have blatantly rejected the teaching of Jesus regarding the FACT that recipients of eternal life shall never perish and claim in total opposition CAN perish will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.

You should read 2 Timothy 2:12 again.
(And stop telling me I don't know English!!!)

 

[FreeGrace2]

Still waiting for anyone who promotes
OSAS to answer this question from the scriptures.

What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB

Why bother answering this question, since you have demonstrated a total failure to understand the passage? iow, you don't even know what you're asking.

All 3 parables regarding being "lost" have to do with fellowship, not salvation.

So, the real question, that you have NEVER answered, nor can you, is this: where does the Bible clearly state that salvation can be lost?

The answer is: the Bible DOESN'T state that.

otoh, the Bible DOES state the fact of eternal security. Eph 1:13,14 and John 10:28 are the very best of the verses that state eternal security.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I, otoh, believe what Paul wrote about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit. That it is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession, as Eph 1:14 says.


Because of Eph 1;13,14 and John 10:28, this verse CANNOT refer to loss of salvation.


No, they don't "have access" to eternal life. But then again, you don't believe what Jesus said in John 10:28 either. He SAID "I GIVE them eternal life".

Here's what He DIDN'T say: "I give them "access to" eternal life".

Please STOP adding to Scripture.


No one can be removed from Christ, because all believers have been sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit.


Yes, it's clear that you have rejected the clear truth of Eph 1:13,14 and John 10:28.

Have you ever purchased a house?
A deposit guarantees nothing .... Either party could pull out of the deal till the last moment.
Even at closing,,,,

 

[JLB777]

Dan the deacon said: ↑
Really? If you deny Christ, what does scripture say Christ does?

There you go again, adding words to Scripture that aren't there, just to promote your own opinion and presumptions.

The context (which you seem to love to ignore) is reigning with Christ, found in v.12A.

So, the "denial" in v.12B is in context of what is earned for enduring, which is reigning with Christ. So what is denied is the opposite of what is earned.

Those who deny Him will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.

I expect those who have blatantly rejected the teaching of Jesus regarding the FACT that recipients of eternal life shall never perish and claim in total opposition CAN perish will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.

But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33


Peter denied Him, and had to repent, and come back to Him to be reconciled back to Him.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

You can't take the truth.

The truth scares you and those of your belief and I don't really know why.

I just love the way you spout off about that which you know nothing.

It's wrong to declare that a person cannot lose their salvation no matter what they do or how they live.

Please take up your concerns with the Lord Jesus, who stated that those He gives eternal life (which is WHEN they believe - John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13) shall never perish (John 10:28).

These verses REFUTE your views every time.

It's plain from scripture that if we have THE LIFE GIVER, Jesus, then we HAVE LIFE.

And it's JUST AS PLAIN that once we have the Life Giver, we cannot lose Him.

If we DO NOT have the LIFE GIVER,
we DO NOT HAVE LIFE.

True of everyone who has never believed.

How can we have life if the life-giver is not dwelling with us?

The Life Giver promised that the coming Holy Spirit would never leave us.

John 14:16 - And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

But I guess you'll just believe what you want to believe. I'm staying with Scripture.

1 Corinthians 15:45
45So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

No Jesus, No Life.

John 10:28 JESUS SAID:
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Jesus gives eternal life to HIS SHEEP.

Notice HOW one becomes one of His sheep: John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Now, if you can prove that "entering through" Him refers to lifestyle, behavior, deeds, works, etc, rather than simply believing in Him for salvation, please proceed.

God is omnipotent and will allow nothing to take a believer from Him (except the believer himself).

OPINION ALERT!!! Please back up your claims with Scripture.

Opinions don't count for anything.

IF WE ARE NOT HIS SHEEP,,,we will NOT have ETERNAL LIFE.

Can you show any verse where a sheep became a goat? Or one of His sheep became not one of His sheep?

By FALLING AWAY:

1 Timothy 4:1
Hebrews 3:12
Mathew 24:10-13

Except that, again, NONE of these verses support your claims.

Can you answer any of my questions here?

 

[JLB777]

Why bother answering this question, since you have demonstrated a total failure to understand the passage? iow, you don't even know what you're asking.

All 3 parables regarding being "lost" have to do with fellowship, not salvation.

So, the real question, that you have NEVER answered, nor can you, is this: where does the Bible clearly state that salvation can be lost?

So based on your theology, a sheep who is lost is still saved?


Is that what your teaching God's people?


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


JLB

 

[JLB777]

I, otoh, believe what Paul wrote about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit. That it is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession, as Eph 1:14 says.

This promise is for those who believe.

Is a person who believes for a while, then no longer believes, still a believer?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

No, they don't "have access" to eternal life.

What do they have access to, if not the eternal life that is in Christ.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6



Jesus plainly described this relationship of being in Him.


He used branches to represent us, and the Vine to represent Him.


If the branch does not stay connected to the Vine, then he will be cast into the fire and burned.


What happens to a branch that is thrown into the fire and burned?



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Don't be so disconcerted!

On whom did the Father place the seal?
He placed the seal on Jesus, not on any man.

Wow. What a clear admission of just how much you don't know the Word of God!!

Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

So, who, exactly is sealed? "you", that's who. Every one who has believed.

Did you notice the past tense in the words "when you believed"?

Jesus is God,,,do you suppose He would unseal the authority given to Him by Father?

ONLY if one believes that God will or can go back on His Word. But what a stupid idea that is, huh.

God doesn't lie. Ever. So when He says those who HAVE BELIEVED are marked or sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing or promising our inheritance until redemption as God's possession, He actually MEANS it.

But for some very strange reason, you don't believe God.

The authority placed on man, this seal, is dependent on the HOLY SPIRIT...if the person abandons the Holy Spirit, does that person still have the seal?

Rather than this display of hysteria, please share any verse that even suggests that anyone can "abandon" the Holy Spirit. I don't even know what that would look like.

But, if anyone is to take you seriously, you need to support your claims with Scripture.

Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Oh, yeah. Use metaphors to prove your points. Jesus used metaphors for the purpose of stating truth that rejectors couldn't understand to fulfill Scripture.

how about just a clear statement to support your claims?

I have given verses on eternal security that do not include parables, or metaphors that state the fact of eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Cute!
LOL

The treasure trove of doctrine is limited to one verse and one doctrine.

Are you suggesting that any one verse ain't good enough for you?

Wowsers!