Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[FreeGrace2]

Bump.

The Holy Spirit is given as a pledge of our inheritance.

I showed the definition of a "pledge". It's a solemn promise.

And I asked you if God ever reneges on any of His promises.

Do you have an answer?

If we do NOT have the Holy Spirit, we no longer have the pledge for our future inheritance.
(I forgot the second sentence before).

What verse teaches that any believer in the NT has lost or can lose the indwelling Holy Spirit?

How can you NOT understand that Eph 1:14 doesn't PERMIT such a thing?

Also, could you please explain why BELIEVE in Luke 8:13, as spoken by JESUS, is not acceptable to you because you insist that person was not saved...

I never ever said such a thing. The second soil WAS SAVED because they DID believe.

The fact that it was "for a while" changes nothing. John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 all say that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. So the second soil received eternal life WHEN they believed. And Jesus was clear: those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish.

BUT, BELIEVE in John 10:26 you DO accept because it suits your purpose of proving that the person IS saved.

You need to follow my posts better.

John 10:26 Those who do not believe are not of Jesus...
John 10:27-28 Those who DO believe are saved by Jesus...

Absolutely. I've always believed that.

So then also the ones in Luke 8:13 who DO believe, as per Jesus are also saved by Jesus, even though you don't want to accept this.

No, I DO accept this.

Please don't confuse me with reformed people. They are in error, just as much as Arminians who believe that salvation can be lost.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Bible does not say we can be unsealed.
That is your interpretation, your opinion, and I don't believe God holds your opinion or my opinion against us, because he's bigger than that.
In case you didn't know, I'm 68 years hold and have a problem staying concentrated on things.

Wow. Your photo sure looks great!! How do you do it. I've got you by a year, and would love to have a photo like yours.

The fact is in the past, I've given you all the Scripture to back up my point but you refuse to except it.

And...that's the main problem with those who hold to false doctrine. They simply refuse to accept what the Bible says so clearly.

 

[OSAS 101]

Wow. Your photo sure looks great!! How do you do it. I've got you by a year, and would love to have a photo like yours.


And...that's the main problem with those who hold to false doctrine. They simply refuse to accept what the Bible says so clearly.

Yeah, that's a picture of me at about 41 years old.
I'd scare you with a picture of me today.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Yet could it also be observed that tickled ears go where the ear ticklers are ?

If I believed such I would go to such a church as well. But I do not really understand why those believing such see a need to attend Church.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"This is actually delusional. I've shared very clear verses about our security. From the moment of faith in Christ, when we receive the gift of eternal life."

You receive the gift of eternal life at the end of your life.

You should have actually read my supporting verses. Are you lazy, or just don't want the facts?

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
This is present tense, not future tense, as you wrongly assume.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life.
Same tense.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you HAVE eternal life.

The problem is that you just don't want to believe the Bible. You REFUSE to believe it.

For now you are just promised the gift of eternal life...

I've given 3 verses that totally refute your opinion.

depending on how you live your life.

Sure. How did that work out for the Pharisees?

John 5:28-29 JESUS SAID:
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

Go ahead and totally ignore John 5:24, which is in the context of these verses.

Galatians 5:19-21 Paul says:

19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Please compare this passage with the other 2 parallel passages: 1 Cor 6 and Eph 5.

This and 1 Cor 6 use the phrase "not inherit the kingdom", but Eph 5 says "have no inheritance IN the kingdom".

So, the issue is about what's IN the kingdom. To "not inherit the kingdom" means to have no inheritance IN the kingdom.

So these passages are NOT about not entering, as you opine, but having no inheritance there.

The inheritance in these passages is the same inheritance that is mentioned in Rom 8:17b (not a) and 2 Tim 2:12a (not b).

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"OK. Now, what did Jesus say about those He gives eternal life?

They shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Do you believe what Jesus said?"

Jesus spoke the way HE spoke,,,He doesn't need any help from you.

Who ever suggested that He did need help?

To WHOM does Jesus give eternal life?
See
John 10:27 and Jesus will tell you.

Already answered. His sheep, which are believers, per John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13.

Why do you refuse to accept these 3 verses?

As to your color coded comment.
The cause is that we are TO BELIEVE in Christ.
The effect is that we are saved.

So that's what the red and blue words really mean??? Is English your native language? Seems not.

Actually, the CAUSE of having eternal life (the subject of my comments) is Jesus. He gives it.

The EFFECT of having eternal life is never perishing. But you just still refuse to believe it.

No belief
No salvation

I agree.

But what you refuse to believe is that once belief, will never perish. OBWNP

 

[FreeGrace2]

Oooh. You're still a young guy!
I can help you with the verses on the sealing.
I can explain to you why they don't mean what the OSAS crowd THINK it means.
This is NOT MY idea. Most churches do NOT believe in OSAS.
Be back in a little...

Well, that would be new. Explaining what Eph 1:13,14 "really" mean.

I can't wait. Should I go get some popcorn?

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is something most people miss (on purpose?!) .

Notice throughout Scripture how many times it is written "WILL BE SAVED" (like if we endure to the end we WILL BE SAVED.

Other Verses that are not so obvious with "WILL BE", pulled out of context, have allowed some false teachers to deceive others into thinking they are already eternally saved even if they flagrantly and perniciously oppose Yahweh and reject Jesus ! How can this be?!

Maybe tickled ears are more powerful than the truth, when people are unwilling to believe Jesus ?

Yes, people DO miss vital verses on purpose.

Such as John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, which ALL say that those who believe HAVE eternal life. The present tense means they already have the gift.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Right.
We can't be eternally saved if we're not at the end of our life yet. We can only know that we are saved right now, if we follow God's conditions; we cannot know the future.

Why don't you believe that we are "saved by grace through faith, and not of ourselves", as you opine?

I know that I'm not fearful. I know that if I follow Jesus I will be saved.

Please provide just ONE verse that says that one is saved by following Jesus.

Acts 16:31 refutes your opinion.

I also know that if I return to a life of sin, I will lose my salvation since I will no longer be IN Jesus.

Please provide just ONE verse that says this.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yeah, that's a picture of me at about 41 years old.
I'd scare you with a picture of me today.

 

[Gr8Grace]

No, I DO accept this.

Please don't confuse me with reformed people. They are in error, just as much as Arminians who believe that salvation can be lost.

I don't see how, after all your posts, that anyone could confuse you with reformed people. UNLESS.....they have not been reading and digesting your post's and just assume your a calvinist and repeat their talking point's against calvinism.

Arminians point out a lot of errors in calvinism.

Calvinism points out a lot of errors in arminianism.

The Truth points out a lot of errors in both of them.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Eternal security. I was taught perseverance of the saints. And was stuck in calvinism or the reformed theology.

Perseverance of the saints, as taught by reformed theology, is the exact same thing as the arminian who is working for their salvation, maintaining their salvation so as not to lose it.calvinism is just more subtle about it......If one does not have works then they are really not saved. They lost the salvation they THOUGHT they had if one does not measure up to their lifestyle,subjective fruit chart, and subjective work chart.

Eternal security is The Lord Jesus Christ preserving believers........No matter what. And the original language in Eph 2:8 and 4..........Is emphatic about it. And leaves no loopholes. The English language and John 10:28 is emphatic about it. and the original language puts a STAMP on it with the double negative of 'never perish.'

I worry about the same thing. The vast majority think that they can live however they want. And that is to live a good, moral, upstanding, 'I am good enough' life and even try to emulate Christ's walk..........and it won't save a soul.

For every person who claims to believe in Christ and is living a horrible life there are 10000000000 people who claim to believe in Christ and count on their 'good life' to be saved.

Hi Gr8
Are you out of calvinism now?
I think it's funny how calvinism teaches works for staying saved just like the CC does, but most don't even know this.

I do, however believe that we need both salvation by justification AND works AFTER salvation.

Works cannot save us but they certainly are an indication of our salvation. You posted Ephesians 2:8,,,good. But we also have Ephesians 2:10. We are saved to do the good works God wishes us to do and for which He prepares us...whatever those works may be; we each have our task to do to help promote the Kingdom of God here on earth. Would you agree to this?

I don't believe the bible teaches that we can be good enough to be saved ... only God is good. We, OTOH, are born sinful, with the sin nature (but not totally depraved). However, after salvation I do believe God expects us to obey His commandments and be good persons. Do you think He likes evil persons??

I read your last paragraph twice and I know this is silly, but I don't understand it. IOW, both groups are claiming to believe in Christ....so what's the difference?

 

[GodsGrace101]

This is why you should carefully read post's.

There are people who WANT the truth.

And there are people who WANT their own truth.......even if they are not lazy about it.

And I don't begrudge these folks. I sit next to people who learn the exact same stuff as me.....and they reject it. I was lucky. I was never invested in a church and never had a paying prominent role in anything. These guys thought they had things to lose if they changed their teaching. It was pretty obvious they chose their paycheck or not upsetting the apple cart over the CLEAR and OBVIOUS Truth that we see in the original language.

There are very few words, or even idea, that are different than the original language. I had thought of one just the other day but it escapes me. I does not, however, change the meaning and message of the N.T.

God wants to save man.
God sent Jesus to release us from the grips of satan.
There are some conditions to be met.
That's about it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Many groups claim to believe in Christ, and perhaps one or more or a few people in every group does believe in and trust in Christ.
Not many, as written in Scripture, but a few.

Eventually, gradually or quickly, before Jesus returns,
those who hear His Voice will "come out of her My people" if they are in a group that doesn't believe.

I read your last paragraph twice and I know this is silly, but I don't understand it. IOW, both groups are claiming to believe in Christ....so what's the difference?

 

[JLB777]

I said:
"I'm going to prove eternal security to you with a color coded rendition of John 10:28. Let's see you unpack it.

Jesus teaches the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing (having) eternal life:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

The red words represent the CAUSE of having (possessing) eternal life.

The blue words represent the EFFECT of having (possessing) eternal life.

I hope you're not color blind.

Now, please prove that Jesus wasn't teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECTof having eternal life in John 10:28."

First, address my color coded points about John 10:28.

Then, answer my question: have you stopped beating your wife yet?

All you have is opinion, and are unable to answer a question from the scriptures.

You are still just stating your opinion, and tagging it with a half truth out of context.

You are a deceitful liar, and a promoter of lies.


The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd, as they are His sheep: Born again - Children of God.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


However, we see from this teaching of Jesus, that His sheep can indeed become lost.

• ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The 99 are said to be "just"; Declared by God as right with Him - Righteous


The one who becomes lost, is described by Jesus as a sinner [unjust; not reconciled to God - unrighteous] in need of repentance.


These are the words of Jesus.


Now comes the question to you -


Based on the actual words Jesus uses, is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?



JLB

 

[GodsGrace101]

Many groups claim to believe in Christ, and perhaps one or more or a few people in every group does believe in and trust in Christ.
Not many, as written in Scripture, but a few.

Eventually, gradually or quickly, before Jesus returns,
those who hear His Voice will "come out of her My people" if they are in a group that doesn't believe.

Yes, I see.
Well, I'm a perfect example. I used to be catholic and had to leave that church because I felt no connection to it.

It has changed these days, but my catholic friends (which are all of them now...look where I live) speak more about church than about our Lord; although I do believe some are saved in the way we understand.

Sometimes I disagree with you because one could be saved in any church. Other times I agree with you because, yes, we do need to feel in touch with the others and to be in agreement with them and to "feel" the same spirit within us.
I have attended a church like this, and for many years.

I can't remember if you're the one that states we MUST come out of a church that does not seem to have the Holy Spirit working in that church.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I have frequently said that one could be saved in any church, even in a communist country and in a Buddhist Temple family people have been saved.

Follow Jesus (whether to stay or leave anyplace, any time) .... as HIS sheep we hear HIS Voice and follow Him. So pure, holy, right, true and simple ! (as HE says)

 

[JLB777]

Now, please prove that Jesus wasn't teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECTof having eternal life in John 10:28."

What does John 10:28 say?

Why don't you post what the scripture says?

Because you can only deceive.


There is no truth in you.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4



You have openly claimed that born again Christians can take the mark of the beast and still be saved.


Since you were kicked off that forum, you have changed your story, so you can continue to promote your deceitful lies here.


Now you can't answer a simple question from the scriptures, because you claim a lost sheep is still saved.


In your theology Lost = Saved and Found = Saved.



LOL.


You have been exposed. Again.


Light exposes darkness.




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't see how, after all your posts, that anyone could confuse you with reformed people. UNLESS.....they have not been reading and digesting your post's and just assume your a calvinist and repeat their talking point's against calvinism.

Arminians point out a lot of errors in calvinism.

Calvinism points out a lot of errors in arminianism.

I find it interesting that Calvinists always assume those who differ with them are Arminians, and Arminians always assume those who differ with them are Calvinists.

The Truth points out a lot of errors in both of them.

The Bible wins every time!!

 

[JLB777]

What verse teaches that any believer in the NT has lost or can lose the indwelling Holy Spirit?

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


A Christian who hates another brother in Christ no longer has eternal life in them.


JLB