Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[FreeGrace2]

Early Church Fathers.
Ignatius of Antioch was a student of John the Apostle.

He must not have been paying any attention.

Perseverance of the saints, eternal security and OSAS all come from p. of the saints.
John Calvin.

Wrong. Eternal security comes from Jesus, Paul, John, and Peter. But that's just not good enough for you, huh.

You'd rather believe those that followed the actual writers of Scripture.

Do you really think the "ECF" were MORE inspired by the Spirit that Paul, John and Peter?

 

[GodsGrace101]

I learned the doctrine from Jesus, Paul, John the apostle, Peter.

Is that enough, or do I need to list more?

No FG
You certainly did not learn it from them.

Explain this:
John 5:28-29

Thanks.
PS Jesus is speaking.

 

[GodsGrace101]

He must not have been paying any attention.


Wrong. Eternal security comes from Jesus, Paul, John, and Peter. But that's just not good enough for you, huh.

You'd rather believe those that followed the actual writers of Scripture.

Do you really think the "ECF" were MORE inspired by the Spirit that Paul, John and Peter?

You're funny.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Did freegrace ever say who (besides scripture they claim) taught them
or who did they learn from
the 'doctrine of eternal security' ?

I agree that one is taught OSAS,,,it is not learned from simply reading the Bible because the concept is not there.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I agree 100% with what you've posted...

What I don't know, and am not sure anybody really knows, is...
What is the sin unto death?
(FreeGrace2 brought it up)
1 John 5:16-17
16If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leadingto death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

I’m not sure perhaps to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

 

[Danthemailman]

Preservation of the saints comes from God.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and sanctified by God the Father, and brother of James, To those who are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"I learned the doctrine from Jesus, Paul, John the apostle, Peter.

Is that enough, or do I need to list more?"

No FG
You certainly did not learn it from them.

Why don't you just quit making false statements, ok?

Jesus taught eternal security in these verses:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Paul taught eternal security in these verses:
Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So there is NOTHING in the present, or anything in the future that can separate the believer from the love of Christ.

Hint: the love of Christ doesn't send God's children to the lake of fire.

John taught eternal security in these verses:
John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47, 11:25-27, 20:31
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Peter taught eternal security in this verse:
1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

There is no way those born of IMPERISHABLE SEED can perish. Which is what Jesus taught in John 10:28.

Explain this:
John 5:28-29

Thanks.
PS Jesus is speaking.

Just back up to v.24 for context and WHEN one actually POSSESSES eternal life: whoever believes HAS eternal life.

That's how to understand v.28,29. From context, of course.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I’m not sure perhaps to blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

Yes, this is one of the possibilities.
But as far as I could find, it seems to be a little mysterious.

There might be another letter that explains it which is lost forever, or the recipients might have known exactly what John was talking about....

 

[GodsGrace101]

Preservation of the saints comes from God.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and sanctified by God the Father, and brother of James, To those who are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

Both correct.
God never forsakes anyone.
And those who are sanctified are preserved.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I said this:
"I learned the doctrine from Jesus, Paul, John the apostle, Peter.

Is that enough, or do I need to list more?"

Why don't you just quit making false statements, ok?

Jesus taught eternal security in these verses:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Paul taught eternal security in these verses:
Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So there is NOTHING in the present, or anything in the future that can separate the believer from the love of Christ.

Hint: the love of Christ doesn't send God's children to the lake of fire.

John taught eternal security in these verses:
John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47, 11:25-27, 20:31
1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Peter taught eternal security in this verse:
1 Pet 1:23 - For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

There is no way those born of IMPERISHABLE SEED can perish. Which is what Jesus taught in John 10:28.


Just back up to v.24 for context and WHEN one actually POSSESSES eternal life: whoever believes HAS eternal life.

That's how to understand v.28,29. From context, of course.

Right.
Whoever BELIEVES has eternal life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, this is one of the possibilities.
But as far as I could find, it seems to be a little mysterious.

There might be another letter that explains it which is lost forever, or the recipients might have known exactly what John was talking about....

I think this could possibly be what Roman Catholics refer to as mortal sins.

 

[OSAS 101]

Prove what?
That two posters have their testimony about how they were saved and then abandoned God and then came back?
YOU also read them...have you forgotten already??
One was Nancy, can't remember the other one right now.

that's my point
if they came back, then they never really left

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"He must not have been paying any attention.

Wrong. Eternal security comes from Jesus, Paul, John, and Peter. But that's just not good enough for you, huh.

You'd rather believe those that followed the actual writers of Scripture.

Do you really think the "ECF" were MORE inspired by the Spirit that Paul, John and Peter?"

You're funny.

But looks aren't everything!

 

[FreeGrace2]

I agree that one is taught OSAS,,,it is not learned from simply reading the Bible because the concept is not there.

This is actually delusional. I've shared very clear verses about our security. From the moment of faith in Christ, when we receive the gift of eternal life.

 

[OSAS 101]

Preservation of the saints comes from God.

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and sanctified by God the Father, and brother of James, To those who are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

heavens to Betsy!
Danthemailman!
haven't seen you in ages
I guess that's my fault
I've been in lockdown at a mental insane asylum for some time.
seems they left the door open for me but I never tried it.
funny how things happen

 

[FreeGrace2]

Right.
Whoever BELIEVES has eternal life.

OK. Now, what did Jesus say about those He gives eternal life?

They shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Do you believe what Jesus said?

If it were possible for a sealed believer to become unsealed, then Jesus would have included that exclusion in John 10:28.

So, how many exclusions did He include in His verse on the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life?

btw, how come you didn't comment on my color coded explanation of John 10:28? I thought it was clear enough, esp with the colors.

 

[Gr8Grace]

It would be interesting to know from you ONE belief that was changed by reading the original

Eternal security. I was taught perseverance of the saints. And was stuck in calvinism or the reformed theology.

Perseverance of the saints, as taught by reformed theology, is the exact same thing as the arminian who is working for their salvation, maintaining their salvation so as not to lose it.calvinism is just more subtle about it......If one does not have works then they are really not saved. They lost the salvation they THOUGHT they had if one does not measure up to their lifestyle,subjective fruit chart, and subjective work chart.

Eternal security is The Lord Jesus Christ preserving believers........No matter what. And the original language in Eph 2:8 and 4..........Is emphatic about it. And leaves no loopholes. The English language and John 10:28 is emphatic about it. and the original language puts a STAMP on it with the double negative of 'never perish.'

I do worry about persons reading along who don't understand and might think they could live how they wish to

I worry about the same thing. The vast majority think that they can live however they want. And that is to live a good, moral, upstanding, 'I am good enough' life and even try to emulate Christ's walk..........and it won't save a soul.

For every person who claims to believe in Christ and is living a horrible life there are 10000000000 people who claim to believe in Christ and count on their 'good life' to be saved.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I know someone who reads and speaks and taught Koine Greek, which just means simple Greek.

He won't read any bible not in the original language. He reads the O.T. in Hebrew and the N.T. in Greek.

I DO admire these persons - I wish I could do this. But I also believe the translations we have tell us all we need to know.
The person I'm telling you about does NOT believe in eternal security.

This is why you should carefully read post's.

There are people who WANT the truth.

And there are people who WANT their own truth.......even if they are not lazy about it.

And I don't begrudge these folks. I sit next to people who learn the exact same stuff as me.....and they reject it. I was lucky. I was never invested in a church and never had a paying prominent role in anything. These guys thought they had things to lose if they changed their teaching. It was pretty obvious they chose their paycheck or not upsetting the apple cart over the CLEAR and OBVIOUS Truth that we see in the original language.

 

[JLB777]

I can't believe how silly this claim is.

I'm going to prove eternal security to you with a color coded rendition of John 10:28. Let's see you unpack it.

Jesus teaches the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing (having) eternal life:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

The red words represent the CAUSE of having (possessing) eternal life.

The blue words represent the EFFECT of having (possessing) eternal life.

I hope you're not color blind. I thought JLB was, but then he started using red colors in some words, so I know he recognizes at least black, white, and red.

Now, please prove that Jesus wasn't teaching about the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life in John 10:28.


It's been around for as long as God has been communicating with mankind.


Believers. Because Jesus taught in John 5:24 and 6:47 that whoever believes POSSESSES eternal life.


Yep. Believers. We know that from John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Do you understand this metaphor about the gate and enters through the gate?


So, now all you've got to do is prove your theory that a sealed IN HIM believer (eph 1:13,14) can be unsealed.

I'll get the popcorn!!


Actually, from the MOMENT one believes, they possess eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13) and Jesus said they shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Your theory needs proof from Scripture. Where is it?


I will be waiting (with popcorn) for your proof from Scripture that support your opinions.

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?


JLB

 

[JLB777]

Can you provide ANY verse that uses the sheep metaphor regarding "actual people" that has a sheep becoming a goat?

Because we have a verse in Matt about angels separating the sheep from the goats, indicating a separation between saved and unsaved people.

Now, if there are no such verses about sheep becoming goats, why persist in using the sheep metaphor, when there aren't any examples that support your contention?


We know that this is merely an opinion, and there are no verses in the Bible that back up your opinion. So why believe a mere opinion?

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?


JLB