The Two Baptisms of the New Testament - Water and the Holy Spirit

[Small Fish]

It doesn't say "Then Paul placed his hands on them..." it says "When Paul placed his hands on them". No chronology is given. So arguably Paul could have laid his hands on them before they were baptized. The impression certainly is that Paul's preaching, their baptism, and the Holy Spirit were all given within only minutes of each other, whichever order they occurred.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ok, so the people in Acts 2:37, did they believe Peter when they asked him what they should do now? Would you consider them believers or unbelievers at this stage?

 

[Small Fish]

It doesn't say "Then Paul placed his hands on them..." it says "When Paul placed his hands on them". No chronology is given. So arguably Paul could have laid his hands on them before they were baptized. The impression certainly is that Paul's preaching, their baptism, and the Holy Spirit were all given within only minutes of each other, whichever order they occurred.

And how would you explain Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[swordsman1]

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ok, so the people in Acts 2:37, did they believe Peter when they asked him what they should do now? Would you consider them believers or unbelievers at this stage?

The 3000 were unbelievers before Peter preached to them, and believers after.

 

[swordsman1]

And how would you explain Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Not sure of your point about this passage. It doesn't say anything about the Holy Spirit.

 

[dqhall]

Have you had both baptisms?
No, it's not a denominational thing. Available to all who ask.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

John the Baptist said:

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance.
But after me comes one who is more powerful than I,
whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

These are the two baptisms.
1) Water baptism.
2) The baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In the book of Acts we read this.

Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had accepted the word of God,
they sent Peter and John to Samaria.
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers
there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them;
they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Four things to note:
1) Those who accepted the word of God in Samaria were new believers.
2) They had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
3) They had not yet "received" the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit
had not yet come "on" any of them.
4) Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

The Jews of first century Judea thought they were made unclean by touching an unclean thing such as a dead lizard. A woman in her menstrual cycle was deemed to be unclean. No one was supposed to touch her. The rabbinical scholars debated about secondary uncleanness. They thought someone could be made unclean by touching something touched by an unclean person. The unclean were supposed to bathe themselves by dipping in water. The Jews excavated cleansing pools lined with waterproof cement called mikvehs for their immersion and ritual cleanliness John baptized in the Jordan where there was flowing water and less risk of cholera and other disease. John preached repentance for forgiveness. He warned the wicked that they should not try to rely on being descendants of Abraham, but rather produce works of repentance.

Jesus received the Holy Spirit when John baptized him. Others received the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands or by hearing the good word being spoken.

John 3:8 (WEB)
The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don’t know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

In the book of Acts you may read where the Holy Spirit was sending Christians one way or the other. After Herod had James beheaded and arrested Peter, apostles left Jerusalem and went to other towns to preach.

Acts 16:6 (World English Bible - Public Domain) described how Paul thought he was being led by the Holy Spirit:

6 When they had gone through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia. 7 When they had come opposite Mysia, they tried to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit didn’t allow them. 8 Passing by Mysia, they came down to Troas. 9 A vision appeared to Paul in the night. There was a man of Macedonia standing, begging him, and saying, “Come over into Macedonia and help us.” 10 When he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go out to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to preach the Good News to them.

 

[Chinchilla]

Jesus received the Holy Spirit when John baptized him.

Not true , that would not make him perfect , for example John the Baptist had Holy Spirit since being in mom's belly .
The dove above Christ head was just sign to Israel that Jesus is Messiah .
John the Baptist was clear that Christ did not need his baptism .

 

[bcbsr]

Have you had both baptisms?
No, it's not a denominational thing. Available to all who ask.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

John the Baptist said:

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance.
But after me comes one who is more powerful than I,
whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

These are the two baptisms.
1) Water baptism.
2) The baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In the book of Acts we read this.

Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had accepted the word of God,
they sent Peter and John to Samaria.
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers
there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them;
they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Four things to note:
1) Those who accepted the word of God in Samaria were new believers.
2) They had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)
3) They had not yet "received" the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit
had not yet come "on" any of them.
4) Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

I think the clearest example of the two baptisms is the conversion of Cornelius and his household in Acts 10 and 11. Upon hearing the message of the gospel he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that without anyone laying hands on him. And later he was baptized with water.

 

[Marvin Knox]

You are not differentiating between the indwelling Holy Spirit and the baptism with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit "in" and the Spirit "on".

This seems to be an ongoing pattern with those who want very much to not believe that the Pentecostal experience and those in the book of acts are separate events from salvation itself.

I would like to give the benefit of the doubt to those who change words like "by", "with" and "in" as they see fit scripture to scripture. But you do have to wonder if it might not be a purposeful tinkering with the Word of God as dictated by the Holy Spirit in the scriptures.

For instance - The 1 Cor. 12:13 verse pointedly tells us that all believers are baptized "by" the Spirit. But I notice that when it was referenced by someone earlier it was rather pointedly said that it showed that "all" believers have been baptized "in" the Holy Spirit.

It is obvious to someone without bias that there seems to be a difference in the economy of God between the "work" of the Holy Spirit internally in initial salvation and His being "sent", "coming upon" being "received" etc. elsewhere in the scriptures.

We are saved by grace through the secret working of God internally. We are also sealed eternally the same way after being brought to belief by the Holy Spirit.

But these acts are secret (wherein we see the "results" of the presence of the Holy Spirit). The other events, from Pentecost on in the book of acts, are rather pointed "arrivals" of the Holy Spirit.

Those who willy-nilly ignore the different nuances of the work of the Holy Spirit in order to supposedly refute charismatic teachings find themselves in some rather dark waters concerning what it takes to be "saved".

In order to make the Pentecostal etc. givings of the Holy Spirit "salvation itself" - they must believe that people are saved by "tarrying for a time", "asking for the Holy Spirit", and (even more egregious) having a select group of people come and lay hands on you to get you saved.

Those who deny the Pentecostal experience end up very much teaching a salvation that is of works rather than pure grace - whether or not they mean to do it or even realize they are doing it.

 

[drich0150]

All believers have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13 says so:

1 Cor 12:13 "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit."​

If anyone is not baptized in the Spirit they are not part of the body of Christ.

Acts 8 was a unique event in Church history. It was the first time outside of Judaism that anyone had become Christians and the Spirit was withheld until the apostles arrived so that they could witness that the hated Samaritans were not second-class citizens but full members of the church. We cannot make a single unique event in history the defacto pattern for today. It would contradict many other scripture which make it clear that everyone receives the Holy Spirit at conversion:

Rom 8:9 "And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ."

Gal 3:2 "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?"

Acts 2:38 "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Eph 1:13 "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit"

etc​

Ahh.. no.

Look at those passages you quoted.. it does not say all believers.. those passages all say the saved have the holy Spirit. not all believers are saved. Act2:38 was a one off as the op clearly points out it is possible to be baptised without receiving the Holy Spirit. Eph1 also speaks to a specific group of people that Paul himself saw to the salvation and receiving of the Holy Spirit. Because again clearly it is possible to be baptised in Christ as the op points out and not have the spirit. You can not ignore one passage for the sake of keeping a church doctrine intact

 

[aiki]

Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had accepted the word of God,
they sent Peter and John to Samaria.
15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers
there that they might receive the Holy Spirit,
16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them;
they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

I sometimes refer to this passage when discussing whether or not water baptism is salvific. This passage indicates baptism does not save; for it is only by the entrance of the Spirit into an individual that they are spiritually regenerated (ie. saved).

Romans 8:9
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

(See also: Titus 3:5)

Four things to note:
1) Those who accepted the word of God in Samaria were new believers.

They were believers but they were not saved. Salvation is accomplished by the indwelling of the Spirit within a person. See Paul's explanation above. You'll notice, too, that Luke doesn't introduce the "believers" in Samaria as converts, or saved, or born-again.

2) They had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism)

But without it having any salvific effect upon them. Interesting, that.

4) Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

And concluding Acts 8 is the story of Phillip bringing to faith the Ethiopian eunuch. Phillip does not lay hands on the eunuch so that he could receive the Holy Spirit, however. Was the eunuch not saved, then? The passage says he went away rejoicing.

In Acts 2 when the first truly born-again believers were made, there was no laying on of hands. The Spirit came upon all who were gathered in the upper room without any assistance whatever from an apostle.

And no, Acts chapter eight was not unique, it was the pattern.

On what grounds do you make it "the pattern"? Description does not equal prescription (See the Is-Ought Fallacy).

 

[bling]

I would say there are lots more than just the two types of “baptism”:
John’s baptism

Christian baptism

Holy Spirit baptism

Baptism of fire

Baptism of the Jews going through the Red Sea.

Baptism of Noah and family and the earth in the flood.

Jewish cleansings

And maybe even more.


The “baptism of Fire” is not a pleasant activity and seems to describe severe persecution.

It appears those just baptized with John’s baptism were rebaptized with water with a Christian Baptism (acts 19).

There also appears to be many portions of the Spirit being given, but do not assume a particular Greek preposition will tell you if it is “on” or “in” since prepositions can take on either meaning most of the time, means change for prepositions and we do not know how these particular ones were used at the time in and around Jerusalem. The context is what we have got to look at.

A baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a very unique event since Peter when he sees it happen to Cornelius and his house hold has to go back years to the

Acts 10: 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Acts 11: 15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

Peter in his explanation to the Jerusalem Jews had to go back years to the beginning to get a similar “Holy Spirit” baptism, which would mean it was unique.

We know followers before Pentecost had a portion of the Spirit John 20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit

But Christ said specifically: John 7:39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

After Pentecost there is the indwelling portion of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Small Fish]

Not sure of your point about this passage. It doesn't say anything about the Holy Spirit.

Are these not believers? They preached in His name, even cast out devils in His name?

 

[Small Fish]

The 3000 were unbelievers before Peter preached to them, and believers after.

And at what point were they baptized with the Holy Ghost?

 

[Small Fish]

And Judas Iscariot? What would you qualify him as since he himself had a Holy Ghost ministry.

 

[Invalidusername]

And how would you explain Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

When I read that passage I always think of people like Simon the sorcerer and false teachers. The Bible makes it clear that there will be "false miraculous signs and wonders" at the end times.

Mormons believe in another version of Jesus yet they will not go to heaven. Catholics believe in Jesus but they depend on works and also pray to Mary and "saints" so they will not go to heaven. JWs believe in another false Christ so they will not go to heaven.

 

[Small Fish]

The Christian walk is typed by the exodus of Israel. After they believed the Word that was sent their way, they took up and left Egypt where the Red sea typed the baptism by water. they spent 40 years in the desert where most of them fell. This types what Jesus said, "many are called but few are chosen. They came out but failed to go in.

Crossing over into the promised land types the Holy Ghost dispensation as we war against sin. Most Christians falls by the wayside. They fail to enter into His rest.

1 Corinthians 10:1-12
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[aiki]

Are these not believers? They preached in His name, even cast out devils in His name?

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

 

[Small Fish]

When I read that passage I always think of people like Simon the sorcerer and false teachers. The Bible makes it clear that there will be "false miraculous signs and wonders" at the end times.

Mormons believe in another version of Jesus yet they will not go to heaven. Catholics believe in Jesus but they depend on works and also pray to Mary and "saints" so they will not go to heaven. JWs believe in another false Christ so they will not go to heaven.

And what about Judas and his ministry? What do you make out of this? Would you agree that he had a Holy Ghost ministry? If he did believe in Jesus then why did he follow Him?

 

[Small Fish]

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Yes, but they still claim to have believed on Him, or they would not have prophesied in His name. I understand what type of people these were. They thought they believed and thought they were Christians but was void of His Spirit.

 

[Invalidusername]

And what about Judas and his ministry? What do you make out of this? Would you agree that he had a Holy Ghost ministry? If he did believe in Jesus then why did he follow Him?

I don't pretend to know all of the answers. I shall let God judge.