The Two Baptisms of the New Testament - Water and the Holy Spirit

[swordsman1]

Do you guys not read past the first sentence or two? or is there maybe a learning disability at play? seriously? I struggled with one most of my life and i truly see the same signs in your response as I would have in my own writings several years ago.

I will ignore your ad-hominem insults.

You claim I did not substantiate my claim.. however I did. I gave examples from the english on how the word believe can mean two different things. one being a simple acknowledgement and two believing in a person or cause to the point you join and fight for your beliefs.. Questioning the koine is a literary tactic that puts the reader off his comfort zone and put a person who wants to learn in a position to pay attention. So rather than go back I went forward and showed in the english where the word belief is separated into simply acknowledgement and radical actions based on belief.. then I ask which one do you think God expects of us? To you i say look at the martyrs look at the apostles in how they died look at the sufferings of the church and tell me if 'belief' is just simple acknowledgement or is something more required? if you think it is simple acknowledgement then why the passage 'beliefs without works is dead?'

Did you even read what I wrote? If you have then you have clearly failed to understand any of it. The possible meanings of the English word 'believe' is irrelevant. What matters is what the Greek word (pisteuó) means. I quoted the BDAG lexicon entry that showed pisteuó never means to believe that something exists, it only means to believe as in trust (with variations on that theme). To make it easier for you to understand here is a simplified summary of the lexicon entry:

① to consider someth. to be true and therefore worthy of one’s trust, believe

ⓐ believe (in) someth., be convinced of someth., w. that which one believes (in) indicated
ⓑ w. the pers. to whom one gives credence or whom one believes
ⓒ w. pers. and thing added π. τινί τι believe someone with regard to someth
ⓓ abs. (in which case the context supplies the obj.,
ⓔ believe = let oneself be influenced κατά τινος against someone
ⓕ πιστεύομαι I am believed, I enjoy confidence
​

② to entrust oneself to an entity in complete confidence, believe (in), trust, w. implication of total commitment to the one who is trusted. The obj. is

ⓐ given
ⓑ not expressed at all
ⓒ A special kind of this faith is the confidence that God or Christ is in a position to help suppliants out of their distress, have confidence
​

③ entrust τινί τι someth. to someone

④ be confident about, a unique use found in ὸ̔ς μὲν πιστεύει φαγεῖν πάντα, someth. like theone is confident about eating anything

⑤ think/consider (possible), in Ro 14:2 perh. holds everything possible;
​

So whenever the word appears in the NT eg John 3:16 it means to put ones trust in Christ. It never means to simply believe he exists.

where is the line between learning disabled and mentally disabled... honestly.. I don't want to be showing up people who genuinely can not help their limits or depth of knowledge... learning disabled for me was the limits I had on reading comprehension. meaning I could read what was on page but not correlate all of the information. for the mentally disabled I should think that their is a loss of fundamental knowledge of the information being presented over all. for the learning disable it is like trying to extrapolate information that is full of holes. it is like reading a text placed on swiss cheese and the text being cut out where the holes are. being mentally disabled I think one is simply inclined to eat the cheese.

Again, I will ignore your insults.

19:1 While Apollos was in the city of Corinth, Paul was visiting some places on his way to Ephesus. In Ephesus he found some other followers of the Lord. 2 He asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+19&version=ERV

Was there a big hole in my last quote or did you just blow past all of what was quoted for your own chance to soap box? or is there a bigger issue at play here, did you just eat the cheese?
I feel almost embarrassed for you here.

Why are you still using the terrible "Easy-to-Read" version? It has led you up the garden path. Or did you deliberately pick that version to quote because it is the only one that supports your own ideas? The words "of the Lord" do not exist in the Greek.

NASB: "Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples."
ESV: "There he found some disciples."
NIV: "There he found some disciples"
KJV "and finding certain disciples"
NKJV: "And finding some disciples"​

Along with every other bible translation.....apart from the ERV.

You've got to be quoting from a mormon bible, or some mormon light house or some mormon commentary or something... how can you deny what the bible clearly says? Unless you treat these tertary writting with more importance than you do the bible..

oh, that's right! you have yet to quote from a bible you are just putting quotes on how things should be from your mind or from some commentary.. here let's see what the bible says again:
5 When these followers heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then Paul laid his hands on them, and the Holy Spirit came on them. They began speaking different languages and prophesying.

So.... verse 5 they were baptised with water...

Then after the water baptism (later) paul at some point placed his hands on them and they received the Spirit.. that is verse 6. these are two separate events there sport.. that is why they have two different verse dentations.

Again the words "And later" or "Then" does not appear in the Greek.

NASB: "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them"
ESV: "And when Paul had laid his hands on them, "
NIV: "When Paul placed his hands on them, "
KJV: "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them"
NKJV "When Paul placed his hands on them"
etc
etc​