Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[JLB777]

This is what is wrong with your opinions. You have applied a command to believers (saved people) as the means of being (or staying) saved. It is a very confused opinion.

Salvation and possession of eternal life is IMMEDIATE when one believes in Christ. I have proved this from Scripture (something you've never done):
Salvation:

We inherit eternal life.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,



28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



JLB

 

[Dan the deacon]

We inherit eternal life.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,



28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



JLB

So are you saved or working on being saved?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I need not guess. The truth is you, like all believers are not yet completely saved. While you wear this sinful flesh one cannot be. It does not happen here on earth bit after we lose this sinful flesh. Your flesh is not saved and your flesh is a big part of you.

I think you misunderstand that there are 3 tenses of salvation.

1. Past tense: we have been saved from the penalty of sin. Justification
2. Present tense: we are being saved from the power of sin. Sanctification
3. Future tense: we will be saved from the presence of sin. Glorification

For everyone who believes, both #1 and #3 are absolute guarantees. But #2 is the "work in progress".

Yet, even for those believers who fail to grow spiritually and fail in the area of sanctification, STILL enter eternity in the presence of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are both wrong. You cannot be completely saved wearing this sinful flesh.

See my previous post regarding the 3 tenses of salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Now ask the 1M$ question about whether any recipient of eternal life can perish."

This has been answered 100 times and each time it is ignored by you.

Your unbiblical answer has been refuted 100 times.

At the end of following Him faithfully the sheep will receive eternal life; the salvation of their soul.

We all know your Pharisee system of works salvation. But the Bible teaches that WHEN one believes they HAVE (that means possess) eternal life. John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13

And Jesus in plain words said that recipients of eternal life (believers) shall never, no, not ever, perish. John 10:28

So this makes 101 times your answer has been refuted.

This occurs after each person stands before Him on the Day of Judgement and is judged according to their deeds.

No, the judgment seat of Christ is for rewards, not the keys to the kingdom as you opine.

Have you stood before Him to be judged according to your deeds, yet.

Please ask sensible and reasonable questions.

Can you still die, while in this life?

No, not while I'm "in" this life. But at the END of this life, I will surely die physically.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Been through this 100 times, so now for the 101st.

Rom 2:6-8 is a statement about how to earn eternal life; by continually doing good, of which NO human being is capable of doing.

Since you love to quote Paul here, why do you persist in ignoring what else he wrote, like Rom 3:9 and 3:23, in which he condemned the entire human race by their sin.

Why you may not be able to grasp the significance of this, I'll explain. Since all humans are sinful, NONE are capable of "continually doing good".

Got it? Hope so.

 

[FreeGrace2]

We inherit eternal life.

No we don't. Paul wrote that all humans are sinners, and incapable of "patient continuance in doing good".

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Rom 3:9 and 3:23 refute your misunderstanding of Rom 2:6-8.

those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

Sure. Ignore the context and push your unbiblical opinion.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

While this may not be clear to you, I'll explain.

v.24 indicates that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. That means they POSSESS it when they believe.

Why? Because there are no verses that teach that eternal life comes at any specific time AFTER believing. So we can be confident that it is WHEN one believes, they POSSESS eternal life.

 

[Dan the deacon]

I think you misunderstand that there are 3 tenses of salvation.

1. Past tense: we have been saved from the penalty of sin. Justification
2. Present tense: we are being saved from the power of sin. Sanctification
3. Future tense: we will be saved from the presence of sin. Glorification

For everyone who believes, both #1 and #3 are absolute guarantees. But #2 is the "work in progress".

Yet, even for those believers who fail to grow spiritually and fail in the area of sanctification, STILL enter eternity in the presence of God.

And just where in scripture are these 3 tenses found? Or is this just a supposition you have?
The Bible never says you are presently saved. It says you WILL be saved. You calling yourself saved does not mean you already are saved.

 

[OSAS 101]

This has been answered 100 times and each time it is ignored by you.


At the end of following Him faithfully the sheep will receive eternal life; the salvation of their soul.

This occurs after each person stands before Him on the Day of Judgement and is judged according to their deeds.


Have you stood before Him to be judged according to your deeds, yet.


Can you still die, while in this life?



eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,



JLB

The Bema, the Judgement Seat of Christ, is for all believers.
It is a time for rewards no punishment.
Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus."
The greatest consequence of unfaithfulness here on earth is that it disappoints Christ. First John 2:28 says, "And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming."

It says that we can be ashamed as we stand before the Lord, but it does not say we can lose our salvation.

So who agrees with me on this?

 

[OSAS 101]

No we don't. Paul wrote that all humans are sinners, and incapable of "patient continuance in doing good".


Rom 3:9 and 3:23 refute your misunderstanding of Rom 2:6-8.


Sure. Ignore the context and push your unbiblical opinion.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

While this may not be clear to you, I'll explain.

v.24 indicates that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. That means they POSSESS it when they believe.

Why? Because there are no verses that teach that eternal life comes at any specific time AFTER believing. So we can be confident that it is WHEN one believes, they POSSESS eternal life.

FreeGrace2 = 1 point
2 points total

 

[OSAS 101]

I think you misunderstand that there are 3 tenses of salvation.

1. Past tense: we have been saved from the penalty of sin. Justification
2. Present tense: we are being saved from the power of sin. Sanctification
3. Future tense: we will be saved from the presence of sin. Glorification

For everyone who believes, both #1 and #3 are absolute guarantees. But #2 is the "work in progress".

Yet, even for those believers who fail to grow spiritually and fail in the area of sanctification, STILL enter eternity in the presence of God.

1 point
Total = 3 points

 

[JLB777]

I said:
"Now ask the 1M$ question about whether any recipient of eternal life can perish."

Your unbiblical answer has been refuted 100 times.


We all know your Pharisee system of works salvation. But the Bible teaches that WHEN one believes they HAVE (that means possess) eternal life. John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13

And Jesus in plain words said that recipients of eternal life (believers) shall never, no, not ever, perish. John 10:28

So this makes 101 times your answer has been refuted.


No, the judgment seat of Christ is for rewards, not the keys to the kingdom as you opine.


Please ask sensible and reasonable questions.


No, not while I'm "in" this life. But at the END of this life, I will surely die physically.


Been through this 100 times, so now for the 101st.

Rom 2:6-8 is a statement about how to earn eternal life; by continually doing good, of which NO human being is capable of doing.

Since you love to quote Paul here, why do you persist in ignoring what else he wrote, like Rom 3:9 and 3:23, in which he condemned the entire human race by their sin.

Why you may not be able to grasp the significance of this, I'll explain. Since all humans are sinful, NONE are capable of "continually doing good".

Got it? Hope so.

Just more of your rancid opinion.


There is nothing you can quote that will somehow by pass the Day of Judgment, in which we all will be judged according to our deeds.

• For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body,

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11

• Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men

Same Paul who wrote Romans 2:6-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath Romans 2:6-8



Christians who have the Holy Spirit and live immoral lives practicing the works of the flesh, rather than living according to the Spirit, will not inherit the kingdom of God.


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

• for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.

11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. Romans 13:11-14

• But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

JLB

 

[JLB777]

The Bema, the Judgement Seat of Christ, is for all believers.
It is a time for rewards no punishment.
Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus."

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Here is the Day of Judgement -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath Romans 2:6-8



Jesus said the same thing -


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth -

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

JLB

 

[Dan the deacon]

So I guess those three tenses of salvation were not from scripture. Was it from Calvin?

 

[FreeGrace2]

And just where in scripture are these 3 tenses found? Or is this just a supposition you have?

Are you actually going to argue against these 3 tenses (or senses) of salvation?

Well then, go ahead and refute these 3 tenses (or senses).

When one believes, have they NOT been saved from the penalty of sin?
When one believes, are they NOT being saved from the power of sin when they are filled with the Spirit and NOT grieving/quenching the Spirit?
When one believes, are they NOT going to be saved from the presence of sin in eternity?

Please answer these questions.

The Bible never says you are presently saved

That is exactly what Paul was referring to in Phil 2:12 - "work out your salvation in fear and trembling".

It says you WILL be saved.

This refers to the future tense, obviously, of salvation; when we WILL BE saved from the presence of sin.

You calling yourself saved does not mean you already are saved.

Couldn't be more wrong.

But then, you apparently have not been taught about the 3 tenses of salvation.

What do you think justification, sanctification and glorification are about, if not about the past, present, and future tenses of salvation?

Do you have any clue?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 = 1 point
2 points total

Thanks, ref.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1 point
Total = 3 points

Muchos gracias.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Just more of your rancid opinion.

Gettin' kinda touchy, now, are we? What's actually rancid is being in direct opposition to what Jesus taught about eternal security.

As for the rest of your rancid post, just go ahead and continue in your Pharisee system of works salvation. And see how far it will get you.

But remember what Jesus told the Pharisees in John 5:37-40
37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

This passage is for you.

You think life is in commandments. So did the Pharisees.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So I guess those three tenses of salvation were not from scripture. Was it from Calvin?

It was from Scripture. Please answer my questions about what justification, sanctificataion and glorification are about, if not the 3 tenses of salvation.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Are you actually going to argue against these 3 tenses (or senses) of salvation?

Well then, go ahead and refute these 3 tenses (or senses).

When one believes, have they NOT been saved from the penalty of sin?
When one believes, are they NOT being saved from the power of sin when they are filled with the Spirit and NOT grieving/quenching the Spirit?
When one believes, are they NOT going to be saved from the presence of sin in eternity?

Please answer these questions.


That is exactly what Paul was referring to in Phil 2:12 - "work out your salvation in fear and trembling".


This refers to the future tense, obviously, of salvation; when we WILL BE saved from the presence of sin.


Couldn't be more wrong.

But then, you apparently have not been taught about the 3 tenses of salvation.

What do you think justification, sanctification and glorification are about, if not about the past, present, and future tenses of salvation?

Do you have any clue?

Seeing the new testament is written to and for the Church, why would this be written to those you say are saved(the Church)?
O agree the word saved is a tense (past tence)except that the words" will be" indicates a future event. I agree we have entered into salvation bit it is not complete here on earth. We are being saved. We are not saved. Not as long as you wear flesh. Your flesh is a great part of you and yet it will not see heaven. Your new body will. So how can you.be saved when a third of you is not even headed for heaven?

 

[Dan the deacon]

Are you actually going to argue against these 3 tenses (or senses) of salvation?

Well then, go ahead and refute these 3 tenses (or senses).

When one believes, have they NOT been saved from the penalty of sin?
They are being saved
When one believes, are they NOT being saved from the power of sin when they are filled with the Spirit and NOT grieving/quenching the Spirit?
Never met anyone successful at this.
When one believes, are they NOT going to be saved from the presence of sin in eternity?
Yep. GOING TO BE.
Please answer these questions.


That is exactly what Paul was referring to in Phil 2:12 - "work out your salvation in fear and trembling".


This refers to the future tense, obviously, of salvation; when we WILL BE saved from the presence of sin.


Couldn't be more wrong.

But then, you apparently have not been taught about the 3 tenses of salvation.

What do you think justification, sanctification and glorification are about, if not about the past, present, and future tenses of salvation?

Do you have any clue?

Yes I have clue. It is called Scripture and Tradition taught by the Church. Tenses of salvation is an an odd teaching I do not agree with. Now if you.can cite a scripture saying someone is saved rather than will be saved, post it. Please use a real translation not one of those new ones that change the meaning. KJV, ASV, NIV ,NASV will work fine.