Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[OSAS 101]

Do you guys have afternoon tea together?

 

[JLB777]

Okay, I'm taking charge of this right now.
the charge to FreeGrace2 is that Jesus lied.
This must be answered before we go on.

Jesus is the Truth.

He doesn’t lie.


His sheep are those who hear His voice and follow Him.


JLB

 

[Gr8Grace]

Jesus is the Truth.

He doesn’t lie.


His sheep are those who hear His voice and follow Him.


JLB

I am one of His sheep. So John 10:28 Pertains to me. And without question, Freegrace is one of His sheep also....So John 10:28 pertains to him.

Are you saying that we are NOT His sheep?

It's a conundrum for people who say we are not really saved until we die.

So, No one is an actual sheep until they die?

 

[Gr8Grace]

What I HAVE shown is your own error in reading Scripture. Even grade schoolers recognize a description vs a condition. But, just like the Pharaoh, the more you resist the truth of Scripture, the harder your heart becomes against the Word.

A side note:

It is like debating liberals. They have an agenda and could care less about the truth. The constitution? Whatever, I want MINE! And what is yours is mine. The truth doesn't matter, the agenda is what matters.

 

[JLB777]

I am one of His sheep. So John 10:28 Pertains to me. And without question, Freegrace is one of His sheep also....So John 10:28 pertains to him.

Are you saying that we are NOT His sheep?

It's a conundrum for people who say we are not really saved until we die.

So, No one is an actual sheep until they die?

Does John 10:27 pertain to you.

Following Him is a life long commitment.

We will know if John 10:27 pertains to you at the end of your life if you have been faith to remain in Christ.

Those who follow for a while then no longer hear His Voice and obey Him, are those who become lost.

Here is how the Bible says we abide in Him.

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him,

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24



JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why do you persist in trying to prove Jesus lied in John 10:27.

What is wrong with you?

Wow. Just like the far left libs. Commit transference.

Definition: accuse the opposition of EXACTLY what you are doing.

v.27 is Jesus' description of His sheep. That's all. No conditions for anything. And any grade schooler knows that.

However, the condition for never perishing is found in the next verse. One MUST RECEIVE eternal life in order to never perish.

Notice that the whole of salvation is dependent upon what Jesus DOES, and NOTHING about what we do.

And even grade schoolers know that a person rescued (saved) from drowning by a lifeguard would be STUPID to brag about how they "saved themselves" by holding onto the lifeguard.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Please, enough of your opinion.

I've been saying that about your own opinions for a long time.

You deny what the scripture I posted says.

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, “he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.“And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Nope. I've denied nothing. But it seems you don't read very well.

Please explain from the context that "anyone" means a believer. That's all you need to do.

And leave your opinion out of it.

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:9-12

Are the saints of God "anyone" ?

Of course not. Any grade schooler knows that. The saints of God are believers, not just anyone. Sheesh.

If you don't believe "anyone" includes the saints of God, then please prove this from the scriptures.

I already did. But you consistently REJECT and DENY what Jesus taught about believers in John 10:28; that they shall never perish.

Everyone besides the saints are already doomed to this punishment, so the word of warning is to the saints of God, who are certainly included in the warning from the angel of God, who says ANYONE...

Huh? Where in the world would anyone get that bit of stuff?

The "anyone" would refer to unbelievers. Do you really think that ALL unbelievers will take the mark of the beast? Sure, many will. But there is nothing to ASSUME that everyone will.

So, those unbelievers that DON'T take the mark of the beast MAY be believe in Christ before He returns. Don't you realize that there will be intense evangelization during the Tribulation and many will turn to the Lord??

Or, since there will be living unbelievers when Christ returns that will populate the earth during the Tribulation, those who didn't take the mark of the beast MAY become believers during the Tribulation.

But I'm sure you'll have some wacky opinion about this as well.

On the other Forum in our one on one debate, when asked if a born again Christian who takes the mark of the beast is still saved, you said "yes".

My point then was simply that NO BELIEVER will perish. Because Jesus said so.

So your refusal to believe what Jesus said is quite disturbed.

Your opinion that behaviors can result in loss of salvation is totally unsubstantiated from Scripture. All you've got is your opinions, but no facts.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Okay, I'm taking charge of this right now.
the charge to FreeGrace2 is that Jesus lied.
This must be answered before we go on.

I first charged JLB with claiming that Jesus lied in John 10:28 if salvation could be lost. And he never backed up his claim that salvation could be lost.

But, if it could, then John 10:28 could NOT be true.

His "charge" to me is simply what the far left libs do; transfer their own sins to the opposition.

Just like the charge that Trump "colluded with the Russians" when in fact Hillary and the DNC actually did!!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Does John 10:27 pertain to you.

Following Him is a life long commitment.

This is what is wrong with your opinions. You have applied a command to believers (saved people) as the means of being (or staying) saved. It is a very confused opinion.

Salvation and possession of eternal life is IMMEDIATE when one believes in Christ. I have proved this from Scripture (something you've never done):
Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

None of these verses even mention one's behavior.

We will know if John 10:27 pertains to you at the end of your life if you have been faith to remain in Christ.

More confusion beause you have refused to accept the FACT that the believer MUST be IN FELLOWSHIP with Christ in order to bear fruit. You've confused fellowship with relationship, and you have REJECTED the clear teaching in Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 about the permanent guaranteed sealing with the Holy Spirit for those IN Christ.

Your entire system of opinions falls apart like a cheap suit.

Those who follow for a while then no longer hear His Voice and obey Him, are those who become lost.

Please stop with these unsubsstantiated opinions. What verse actually says this? None.

Here is how the Bible says we abide in Him.

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him,

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24

Yes, this is true, but not the way you opine.

Those who do keep His commandments are IN FELLOWSHIP with Him. They are abiding in Him.

But those who don't, are OUT OF FELLOWSHIP with Him, and are NOT abiding in Him.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus is the Truth.

Absolutely true.

He doesn’t lie.

Then WHY do you believe that believers can perish? He said they shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Believing that believers can perish proves that you yourself don't believe what He said.

So, either you are wrong, or He is. I'm certainly NOT going to base truth on your opinons.

 

[OSAS 101]

Jesus is the Truth.

He doesn’t lie.


His sheep are those who hear His voice and follow Him.


JLB

1 point for JLB

 

[OSAS 101]

Absolutely true.


Then WHY do you believe that believers can perish? He said they shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Believing that believers can perish proves that you yourself don't believe what He said.

So, either you are wrong, or He is. I'm certainly NOT going to base truth on your opinons.

1 Point for FreeGrace2.
Question must be answered by JLB before we continue.

 

[FreeGrace2]

JLB777 said: ↑
Jesus is the Truth.

He doesn’t lie.

His sheep are those who hear His voice and follow Him.

JLB

1 point for JLB

Now ask the 1M$ question about whether any recipient of eternal life can perish.

Can't wait for point totals!!

 

[Dan the deacon]

That kind of thing simply doesn't happen. Salvation by works Christians typically bring up irrelevant scenarios like that. Or propose "What if those born of God continue to live in sin?" It just doesn't happen. The Bible says so.

1John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."

What about alleged "Christians" who fall away. This is how the apostle John analyzes that scenario:

1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us, (ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us; (ALWAYS SAVED)
but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

So you really believe you do not ever sin? Really? How do you manage to do That? The only way to do such is to lie and oops that is a sin.
I think the problem comes from assuming we are completely saved here on earth. Such is not the case. We are being saved. The work is not yet complete here while we still wear this sinful flesh. If it were we would not receive a new body. Your unholy flesh is not saved. Your soul perhaps, your spirit yes but not your unholy flesh.

 

[bcbsr]

So you really believe you do not ever sin? .

Didn't say that. Guess again.

 

[Dan the deacon]

I am one of His sheep. So John 10:28 Pertains to me. And without question, Freegrace is one of His sheep also....So John 10:28 pertains to him.

Are you saying that we are NOT His sheep?

It's a conundrum for people who say we are not really saved until we die.

So, No one is an actual sheep until they die?

Not completely. Not until we are free of this sinful flesh.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Didn't say that. Guess again.

I need not guess. The truth is you, like all believers are not yet completely saved. While you wear this sinful flesh one cannot be. It does not happen here on earth bit after we lose this sinful flesh. Your flesh is not saved and your flesh is a big part of you.

 

[Dan the deacon]

Absolutely true.


Then WHY do you believe that believers can perish? He said they shall never, no, not ever, perish.

Believing that believers can perish proves that you yourself don't believe what He said.

So, either you are wrong, or He is. I'm certainly NOT going to base truth on your opinons.

You are both wrong. You cannot be completely saved wearing this sinful flesh. I agree you have a promise of salvation but while wearing sinful flesh you are not yet completely saved. If you were you would not require a new body. This does not happen on earth. You must be changed and only after this is completed can you say you are saved. What you are is being saved.
I agree that once you are saved it is permanent. But it is not yet complete nor permanent. I also agree that you cannot lose your salvation. But we are not yet at that point.
Osas is true. But only after it is complete. Not here on earth. Losing one's salvation is also false. One cannot lose what is not yet complete.

 

[JLB777]

JLB777 said: ↑
Jesus is the Truth.

He doesn’t lie.

His sheep are those who hear His voice and follow Him.

JLB

Now ask the 1M$ question about whether any recipient of eternal life can perish.

Can't wait for point totals!!

This has been answered 100 times and each time it is ignored by you.


At the end of following Him faithfully the sheep will receive eternal life; the salvation of their soul.

This occurs after each person stands before Him on the Day of Judgement and is judged according to their deeds.


Have you stood before Him to be judged according to your deeds, yet.


Can you still die, while in this life?



eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,



JLB

 

[Dan the deacon]

This has been answered 100 times and each time it is ignored by you.


At the end of following Him faithfully the sheep will receive eternal life; the salvation of their soul.

This occurs after each person stands before Him on the Day of Judgement and is judged according to their deeds.


Have you stood before Him to be judged according to your deeds, yet.


Can you still die, while in this life?



eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8


but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,



JLB

This is an interesting post. There is truth in it. I assumed you were an Armenian bit after reading this post I think I assumed wrong.
I guess that saying about assuming refers to me now.