Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

[FreeGrace2]

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to doctrine which accords with godliness,

3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to doctrine which accords with godliness, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ,4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”
Luke 8:21

How can one who blatantly rejects the teaching of Jesus about recipients of eternal life NEVER PERISHING even claim to "abide in Christ" or "consent to doctrine" which accords to Jesus' teaching?

Only a hypocrite will do that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The condition for receiving eternal life is stated here -

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Any grade schooler can read these verses and KNOW that your claim is wrong.

And I showed where in Scripture the condition for receiving eternal life is taught, and you just ignored:

I said this:
"No it doesn't. And everyone who understands plain English knows it isn't.

The condition for receiving eternal life is stated here:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believeshim who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Nothing about "following", which is a command only to believers, never to unbelievers to be saved.

Once again you have been refuted directly by Scripture."

Those who hear and obey, follow Him and do not become lost.

Where does "do not become lost" occur ANYWHERE in Scripture? Nowhere is where.

Why do you always insert your own opinion when dealing with Scripture?

Those who wander from Him and become lost, must repent as a sinner, or remain lost.

Please provide a verse, rather than just your unbiblical opinions.

Here is the condition for receiving eternal life.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:24-29

Actually, the condition is stated in v.24. "he who hears My word and believes" is the condition. As I showed already.

those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

From the context of v.24, it should be obvious to any reasonable person that "done good" in v.29 refers specifically to hearing and believing what Jesus says.

And v.29, just like 10:27, is a description, NOT a condition for anything.

Just ask any gradeschooler. They would know.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Because you have chosen to ignore the truth of John 10:27, the condition for receiving eternal life, you only promote what your false doctrine states.

What I HAVE shown is your own error in reading Scripture. Even grade schoolers recognize a description vs a condition. But, just like the Pharaoh, the more you resist the truth of Scripture, the harder your heart becomes against the Word.

A very dangerous position to be in.

Those who stop hearing His voice and following Him, are lost and can be deceived into taking the mark of the beast.

Please provide a verse rather than just your own opinion, which doesn't accord with Scripture.

Your claim that they will continue to have eternal life ever if they take the mark of the beast is a doctrine of demons.

I've already asked you to prove this stupid claim by citing a post #. But all you do is repeat your nonsense. You have no proof.

I claim that NO believer ever will take the mark of the beast.

What it seems you just can't comprehend is that IF any believer did, then John 10:28 cannot be true.

It seems you just want to prove that Jesus is a liar.

A very dangerous position to be in.

 

[JLB777]

Any grade schooler can read these verses and KNOW that your claim is wrong.

And I showed where in Scripture the condition for receiving eternal life is taught, and you just ignored:

I said this:
"No it doesn't. And everyone who understands plain English knows it isn't.

The condition for receiving eternal life is stated here:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believeshim who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Nothing about "following", which is a command only to believers, never to unbelievers to be saved.

Once again you have been refuted directly by Scripture."


Where does "do not become lost" occur ANYWHERE in Scripture? Nowhere is where.

Why do you always insert your own opinion when dealing with Scripture?


Please provide a verse, rather than just your unbiblical opinions.


Actually, the condition is stated in v.24. "he who hears My word and believes" is the condition. As I showed already.


From the context of v.24, it should be obvious to any reasonable person that "done good" in v.29 refers specifically to hearing and believing what Jesus says.

And v.29, just like 10:27, is a description, NOT a condition for anything.

Just ask any gradeschooler. They would know.

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



Paul says it this way -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are "treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Your claim that a born again Christian can serve other gods and still be saved, is a doctrine of demons.




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9.

• Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.

JLB

Right. Exactly what you are doing. You are NOT abiding in the doctrine of Christ. Therefore, you do not have God.

Only those who believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing are abiding in Christ and DO have God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your claim that a born again Christian can serve other gods and still be saved, is a doctrine of demons.

If Jesus had given any exceptions to those He gives eternal life about never perishing, then you'd have a point.

But as it is, you have no point.

Jesus didn't give any exceptions for recipients of eternal life. ALL of them shall never, no, not ever, perish.

But you continue to oppose the very words of Jesus by your demonic doctrine that recipients WILL perish unless they meet certain conditions.

There are NO conditions for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to never perish.

The MERE FACT that one has received eternal life MEANS they shall never perish.

That is exactly what v.28 says.

All you've proven is your hard heart against the doctrine of Christ.

 

[JLB777]

I claim that NO believer ever will take the mark of the beast.

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, “he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.“And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”


Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12


Are the saints of God "anyone" ?


If you don't believe "anyone" includes the saints of God, then please prove this from the scriptures.


Everyone besides the saints are already doomed to this punishment, so the word of warning is to the saints of God, who are certainly included in the warning from the angel of God, who says ANYONE...


On the other Forum in our one on one debate, when asked if a born again Christian who takes the mark of the beast is still saved, you said "yes".


So which is it, now?


I guess you really don't believe the doctrine you are promoting.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Right. Exactly what you are doing. You are NOT abiding in the doctrine of Christ. Therefore, you do not have God.

Only those who believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing are abiding in Christ and DO have God.

Here is what Jesus said about this subject -

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



Paul said the same thing -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are "treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Born again Christians who do not keep His commandments will not inherit eternal life.

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar,

4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


Those who abide in Him, but later do not remain in Him, are cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

• Here is how the bible says we are to abide in Him -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


We all have the same conditions for inheriting eternal life.



If you believe a born again Christian can break His commandments and live in sin, in which they hate God and hate their neighbor then please post the scriptures that prove this.

• are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

• for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.

9 For the commandments,“You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. Romans 13:9-14


Keeping His commandments is love: Loving God and loving our neighbor.

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments... 1 John 5:3

Born again Christians who do not keep His commandments do not love God, nor do they love their neighbor.




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, “he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.“And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Let me ask you this simple question:

What part of "no believer will ever take the mark of the beast" do you not understand?

Another question:

Why do you perlsist in trying to prove that Jesus LIED in John 10:28? What is wrong with you?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here is what Jesus said about this subject -

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



Paul said the same thing -

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are "treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

Born again Christians who do not keep His commandments will not inherit eternal life.

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar,

4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


Those who abide in Him, but later do not remain in Him, are cast into the fire and burned.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

• Here is how the bible says we are to abide in Him -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


We all have the same conditions for inheriting eternal life.



If you believe a born again Christian can break His commandments and live in sin, in which they hate God and hate their neighbor then please post the scriptures that prove this.

• are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

• for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.

9 For the commandments,“You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. Romans 13:9-14


Keeping His commandments is love: Loving God and loving our neighbor.

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments... 1 John 5:3

Born again Christians who do not keep His commandments do not love God, nor do they love their neighbor.




JLB

My answer to your previous post was sufficient to refute all your unbiblical claims and opinions.

No further comments are necessary.

What is perplexing is WHY someone who claims to be a believer DOESN'T believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing?

Such a person CANNOT be abiding in Christ by doing that.

 

[OSAS 101]

My answer to your previous post was sufficient to refute all your unbiblical claims and opinions.

No further comments are necessary.

What is perplexing is WHY someone who claims to be a believer DOESN'T believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing?

Such a person CANNOT be abiding in Christ by doing that.

OSAS

 

[FreeGrace2]

OSAS

Yes, that's it!!

 

[OSAS 101]

Yes, that's it!!

Lol, you and JLB argue so much, I don't know who's taking which side or what!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lol, you and JLB argue so much, I don't know who's taking which side or what!

Real easy. JLB rejects the clear words of Jesus in John 10:28; that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

 

[OSAS 101]

Real easy. JLB rejects the clear words of Jesus in John 10:28; that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

JLB doesn't believe that?
Where is he?
I wanna hit him.

 

[FreeGrace2]

JLB doesn't believe that?

He believes the exact opposite.

Where is he?
I wanna hit him.

 

[OSAS 101]

He believes the exact opposite.

There must be something wrong here.
JLB knows everything.

 

[JLB777]

Let me ask you this simple question:

What part of "no believer will ever take the mark of the beast" do you not understand?

Another question:

Why do you perlsist in trying to prove that Jesus LIED in John 10:28? What is wrong with you?

Why do you persist in trying to prove Jesus lied in John 10:27.

What is wrong with you?


JPT

 

[JLB777]

Let me ask you this simple question:

What part of "no believer will ever take the mark of the beast" do you not understand?

Please, enough of your opinion.


You deny what the scripture I posted says.

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, “he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.“And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”


Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:9-12


Are the saints of God "anyone" ?


If you don't believe "anyone" includes the saints of God, then please prove this from the scriptures.


Everyone besides the saints are already doomed to this punishment, so the word of warning is to the saints of God, who are certainly included in the warning from the angel of God, who says ANYONE...


On the other Forum in our one on one debate, when asked if a born again Christian who takes the mark of the beast is still saved, you said "yes".


So which is it, now?


I guess you really don't believe the doctrine you are promoting.



JLB

 

[OSAS 101]

Why do you persist in trying to prove Jesus lied in John 10:27.

What is wrong with you?


JPT

Okay, I'm taking charge of this right now.
the charge to FreeGrace2 is that Jesus lied.
This must be answered before we go on.