Speaking in Tongues a Cessationists’ View

[Dave L]

I have heard my wife speak in tongues many times.......
and the first time that she ever got this gift was in Quito, Ecuador.... and a woman there told her that she had praised G-d in a dialect from India. The woman was from India.......

My wife is so gifted that somehow Messiah Yeshua - Jesus told her that I was going to be her husband..... and that she should fast and pray for me for 35 days.

She fasted for three days / week for four weeks and then seven days in a row for the fifth week..... I was 3000 miles north of her going though the most amazing Shalom / peace of mind that I had experienced in my entire life...... and especially in the last decade.... 1990 - 2000.

This is fine but scripture does not support her experience.

 

[Albion]

I agree that continuationists disagree on some things ourselves.

As to the insistence that Tongues DID CEASE -- no, they didn't. It STILL GOES ON,

Just a minute. That doesn't mean that they did not cease.

The historic record shows that tongues gradually became less and less in evidence and then ceased -- for centuries on end. The fact that some people in rather recent times were moved to restart the use of tongues does not mean that they had not ceased prior to that.

 

[Anto9us]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...shifting-dramatically/?utm_term=.8527260e1c17

Today, Brazil not only has more Catholics than any other country, but also more Pentecostals, reflecting Pentecostalism’s astonishing global growth. Tracing its roots to the Azusa Street revival in 1910, and comprising 5 percent of Christians in 1970, today one of four Christians is Pentecostal or Charismatic. Or think of it this way: one out of 12 people alive today has a Pentecostal form of Christian faith.

 

[Dave L]

An excellent volley of posts back and forth ended with this post unanswered.
If it was a chess game, I would say, "Check."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Again. the apostle Paul was not an eye-witness of his resurrection. And neither was Ananias. (to my knowledge) Not to mention Barnabas, (named an apostle) the elders at Timothy's church, or Timothy himself. All administering gifts.

If you could prove your position from scripture we would not be dragging this out as long as we have.

 

[Anto9us]

https://www.hprweb.com/2017/06/the-...its-implications-for-catholic-evangelization/

But the growth of Christianity in the southern hemisphere cannot be understood in terms of why the Catholic Church is declining in the north. What we are witnessing in the south is an unprecedented growth of Pentecostal and charismatic churches that is so powerful that Catholics are leaving the Church to join them.

 

[DennisTate]

This is fine but scripture does not support her experience.

I happen to disagree with you..........

 

[Anto9us]

https://www.hprweb.com/2017/06/the-...its-implications-for-catholic-evangelization/

But what we are witnessing is what John Allen calls a “Pentecostal Explosion” about which he says:

In Christians terms, the late 20th century will probably be known as the era of the “Pentecostal Explosion.” From less than six percent in the mid-1970s, Pentecostals finished the 20th century representing almost 20 percent of world Christianity.

The sheer speed of growth of Pentecostal and charismatic Christianity is difficult to exaggerate. Over twenty years ago Ralph Martin wrote:

By 1992 the numbers of Pentecostals and charismatic had grown to over 410 million and now comprised 24.2 percent of world Christianity… My research has led me to make a bold statement: In all of human history, no other non-political, non-militaristic, voluntary human movement has grown as rapidly as the Pentecostal-charismatic movement in the last 25 years.

 

[Albion]

Got any reason WHY, from scripture, Dennis?

 

[Dave L]

I happen to disagree with you..........

You need scripture to verify her experience.

 

[Anto9us]

https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2013/october/charismatic-renewal-movement.html

A 2011 Pew Forum study showed that almost 305,000,000 people worldwide, or 14 percent of the world's self-identified Christian population, is part of the charismatic movement.

That's 305 million people, and their impact on Christianity and God's global mission has been powerful and far-reaching.

 

[Anto9us]

Act 2:39

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[Major1]

Today's charismatic tongues are not genuine. You must learn how to speak in tongues. It was spontaneous in Acts. Also it is sectarian today. Also those who spoke in tongues knew what they were saying. Understanding what was said was the basis for edification. Today you might get a buzz like any group of heathen who speak in tongues do, but you still do not know what you are saying.

Agreed. From what I have personally observed it is more of a follow the leader than it is a motivation from God.

 

[Albion]

Act 2:39

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

We have been over this already. The verse does not refer to tongues or the gifts when speaking of the promise. Just consult any commentary if the clear wording of the verse isn't sufficient.

 

[Dave L]

Act 2:39

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The promise = the Holy Spirit not the charismatic gifts. For even then not all spoke in tongues or prophesied.

 

[Anto9us]

According to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity, there are about 279 million pentecostal Christians and 305 million charismatic Christians worldwide. (Charismatic Christians belong to non-pentecostal denominations yet engage in spiritual practices associated with pentecostalism, such as speaking in tongues and divine healing; see Defining Christian Movements.)

That is from:
http://www.pewforum.org/2011/12/19/global-christianity-exec/

 

[Major1]

https://www.christianitytoday.com/edstetzer/2013/october/charismatic-renewal-movement.html

A 2011 Pew Forum study showed that almost 305,000,000 people worldwide, or 14 percent of the world's self-identified Christian population, is part of the charismatic movement.

That's 305 million people, and their impact on Christianity and God's global mission has been powerful and far-reaching.

“Statistics, likelihoods, and probabilities mean everything to men, nothing to God.”
― Richelle E. Goodrich,

 

[Anto9us]

I don't care what the Cessationist Splainaway of Acts 2:39 is.

The promise of the Holy Spirit was cited in the context of Pentecost and everything that was going on, which Peter described as fulfillment of Joel's prophecy -- and the recipients include all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

You guys MAKE ME SICK trying to tell Dennis his wife's experience is not valid.

 

[Albion]

I don't care what the Cessationist Splainaway of Acts 2:39 is.

So, we are back to no scripture to support the continuationist POV.

 

[Major1]

According to the Center for the Study of Global Christianity, there are about 279 million pentecostal Christians and 305 million charismatic Christians worldwide. (Charismatic Christians belong to non-pentecostal denominations yet engage in spiritual practices associated with pentecostalism, such as speaking in tongues and divine healing; see Defining Christian Movements.)

That is from:
http://www.pewforum.org/2011/12/19/global-christianity-exec/

Numbers do not equal correctness especially when it comes to theology.

At one time, large majority of people said that Slavery was once a popular idea.
At one time, large numbers of people said Genocide was once a popular idea.
At one time, large numbers of people said Segregation was once a popular idea.
At one time, the great majority of people in Germany voted for Hitler.
At one time, the whole city of Jews in Jerusalem crucified Jesus.

Those all seem like bad ideas, now.

 

[Major1]

I agree that continuationists disagree on some things ourselves.

As to the insistence that Tongues DID CEASE -- no, they didn't. It STILL GOES ON, despite the Cessationists insistence that it is 'fake', 'non-genuine", etc.

Charismatic/Pentecostal Christianity is growing faster than ever.

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/charismatic.christianity.in.us.myths.exposed/16054.htm

Charismatic and Pentecostal Christians over the past decade have grown from about 30 percent to 36 percent of American adults, or about 80 million people. One out of every four Protestant churches in the United States (23 percent) is a charismatic congregation.

George Barna, who directed the research projects, commented that the growth in the charismatic and Pentecostal movements in America is not surprising because it matches the current cultural trend in mainstream society.

It's easy to say that something is right because a lot of people say that it is, but ignorance is everywhere.

From...…...https://thegrio.com/2013/09/03/speaking-in-tongues-down-among-pentecostals/
"The Assemblies of God, one of the nation’s largest Pentecostal denominations with 3 million members, has 66 million members worldwide. Assemblies officials worried about the decline in messages in tongues — or spirit baptism — at a general council meeting this month. The practice decreased by about 3 percent to fewer than 82,000, the lowest total since 1995, according to statistics released by the Assemblies of God."