ONE VERSE TOTALLY DESTROYS FREE WILL !

[John tower]

Cherry picking ...

Why is it so important to you trying to convince other Christians there is no free will?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1928750323842313/permalink/1946663335384345/

 

[John tower]

If this is the only verse that matters why did God give the other 31,171 verses?

Who said it is the only verse that matters : do not put words in my mouth which I did not say !

 

[expos4ever]

What is wrong with God being in total control ? Do you know someone else who could do a better job : certainly not man : Heb 12(2), Col 1(17), Rom 9(11-23)

As others have pointed out, a God who controls everything in the universe like a puppet master really reduces creation to a triviality.

 

[Blade]

Well this post has changed nothing.

 

[Hughestimo]

Heb 12(2), John 13(18), Eph 2(8&9), Jer 10(23) : I could quote verses all day : His predestined , chosen elect is a biblical fact Mt 13(11), Mark 13(20)

First, im sorry on the behalf of my fellow brothers and sisters. The hostility you have received is very unbecoming and the opposite of what we strive to be.
Second, we must compare scripture with scripture to determine the truth. The verses that you showed, actually works against your point. They have nothing to do with freewill, but everything to do with leaning away from the understanding of man.

This is a big point because throughout the bible it is iterates that God knows all so his plan should be followed, but the biggest question for free will, whats the purpose of the bible? If all were predetermined and no free will there Would be no commandments because we would follow the divine flow. There would be no need.

Now as the anger boils your veins, be still and listen. The Lord is not like us, he doesn't think like us. He is infinite and can be inside and outside time itself. He had all selected before the foundation of the world. He knew every decision every person would make and formed everything around it. This is not to say that he controlled us, but not being limited by time he could see all before existence as existence existed as well as those whom suffer eternal condemption.

With being able to manipulate anything, even when things don't go way (human free will) he can alter other things to make his will work flawlessly, however you can see the effects this has. God still persuades us to follow him and will intercede. The death of a loved one, financial ruin, afflictions. These can alter our views.

He created man to glorify him and none else but wanted Man to do so willingly. Hence human free will.

 

[Der Alte]

Who said it is the only verse that matters : do not put words in my mouth which I did not say !

That is the logical conclusion a reasonable person would make when they read your OP.

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

"One single verse totally destroys free will...case closed, end of story."

 

[Hughestimo]

First, im sorry on the behalf of my fellow brothers and sisters. The hostility you have received is very unbecoming and the opposite of what we strive to be.
Second, we must compare scripture with scripture to determine the truth. The verses that you showed, actually works against your point. They have nothing to do with freewill, but everything to do with leaning away from the understanding of man.

This is a big point because throughout the bible it is iterates that God knows all so his plan should be followed, but the biggest question for free will, whats the purpose of the bible? If all were predetermined and no free will there Would be no commandments because we would follow the divine flow. There would be no need.

Now as the anger boils your veins, be still and listen. The Lord is not like us, he doesn't think like us. He is infinite and can be inside and outside time itself. He had all selected before the foundation of the world. He knew every decision every person would make and formed everything around it. This is not to say that he controlled us, but not being limited by time he could see all before existence as existence existed as well as those whom suffer eternal condemption.

With being able to manipulate anything, even when things don't go way (human free will) he can alter other things to make his will work flawlessly, however you can see the effects this has. God still persuades us to follow him and will intercede. The death of a loved one, financial ruin, afflictions. These can alter our views.

He created man to glorify him and none else but wanted Man to do so willingly. Hence human free will.

To clarify, our actions didn't affect God, God knew of our actions and countered every one of them before we could make them.

 

[Greg J.]

Well this post has changed nothing.

IMO, the original poster is not teachable at the moment, needs affirmation more than truth—and is not interested in discussion. This thread is taking on the aroma of trolling and flaming. If he wants to learn something, he can go through the process of explaining the meaning of each verse that apparently demonstrates free will, perhaps starting with what has been presented in this thread.

 

[AlexDTX]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1928750323842313/permalink/1946663335384345/

I don't use Facebook and the link does not allow me to read the content. Linking to another article is a poor response. At least have the courtesy of summarizing what the content of the article says first, then provide a link.

 

[RRep]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

you should change you religion to CALVINISM.

 

[Monna]

Perhaps the story is actually in the context of the original Fall?
Before "the Fall" Adam and Eve had a real choice. They could believe God's warning without doubting His motives for prohibition of the fruit, or they could believe the Serpent, that God was willfulling cheating them of something worth having.

The moment they made the wrong choice, they lost what we think of as "free will." Sin passed on all, we became slaves to sin. As such, and on our own we do not even want to seek God as He is. Instead we make up our own image of God.

"No one comes to Me unless the Father draws him." It is absolutely and entirely His work, to draw us, to convict us of sin, to confession and repentance. Then "He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." He begins a healing and restoration process, during which, I believe, involves giving us back our "free will"

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." (He has even prepared good works for each of us to do...!)

Eph. 3:17-19 "And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God!"

#ph 4:11-14 "So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ!"

These are high ambitions. As believers we can definitely choose to cooperate or not. God never gives up on us, but we struggle constantly with the competing selfish urges. The only thing that works is identifying with Jesus in His death for us, that is dying to ourselves, so that Christ Himself can live in and through us. That is the only way we, (corporately?) will attain "the full measure of the fullness of Christ." One aspect of that is Christ's own choice..."not my will, but thine be done."

 

[RRep]

I don't want to be Calvinist or arimanian or whatever at this point I want to know truth.

yeah calvins and Arminian eventally agree, so they are Catholics. checking believers for good fruits. meaning your good works get you into Heaven. Not believe Alone.
Love your neighbor enough to give them the Good news (Gospel) found in, 1 Corinthians 15 1-4. Then give them Ephesians 2 8-9 Matthew 10:34 Luke 12:51. Then to explain what sword means go to Ephesians 6:17. If you do not even know where the good new is found in the bible how do you know you re even saved.

Keep all the laws you want, but do not expect Jesus to care, all He wants us to say is that ( my salvation depends on what you did on the cross for me and most of all, your resurrection proves Godhood), then read. Matthew 7:21-23.Luke 13: 26-28. Then understand what the parable in Luke 19 means. The Talents He gives the 10 servants is the Gospel. Jesus is the king and when He comes back He will have the people who do not want him as their King be killed. Then He starts the 1000 years reign.

There are two Judgments. The Bema Seat of Christ for the believers who get crowns for giving the Gospel and The Great White Throne Judgement for the Unbelievers. For those believers that think their works help get them into heaven, you are going straight to hell, then to the GWT Judgment then into the Lake of Fire.

To REPENT (matineo) means to change your mind. It does not mean confess you’re Sins

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

I'm not sure why you think Eph 1:11 'destroys' free will.

It says God works all things after the *counsel* of His own will - not that God predetermines or decrees everything that happens. There are several logical possibilities just on the phrase 'works all things according to the counsel of his will:'

1) God wills every single thing that happens in the universe (including sin, which would make sin hit the mark of His will, and thus sin would be righteous. We can dismiss this option as contrary to scripture.)

2) In the Counsel of God's will He created nature and man with the ability to freely act within physical limits (Seems to be backed up with the natural laws God implemented governing nature and people presented as having choices in the Bible)

3) By the Counsel of God's will God allows nature and man to do anything they wish to. (Seems contrary to man having physical and moral limits and nature having boundaries.


If we look at the full text and context of this verse, what is meant is even clearer. Believers are predestined 'according to His purpose.' (Eph 1:11) Those in Christ (believers) are chosen to be made Holy (Eph 1:4,) and those in Christ (believers) are predestined to be adopted as sons.

(Predestined, btw, means 'pre-limited' or 'pre-bounded' in the Greek - it has no connotations of the English word destiny.)

Following from option 2, the verse is specifically speaking of the counsel of God's will in regards to believers. They will be made holy, adopted, receive an inheritance, etc.

 

[dreadnought]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

Would anyone want to go to heaven if there was no free will?

 

[Loren T.]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1928750323842313/permalink/1946663335384345/

Well that settles that I guess! Lol, more like, I don't have any answers, but obviously you are just a proud sinner, so there!

 

[LoveofTruth]

Evan when we praise God is He making us do it or do we CHOOSE to do it? If He forced it, would it matter?

we are not robots

the main issue is that John seems to be saying that God does everything. I mean literally EVERYTHING, all evil, sin blasphemey, lies etc .

But scripture clearly corrects this kind of horrific thinking.

God cannot lie or deny himself or make men do iniquity or sin. So when men sin, lie and deny and blaspheme God he is not making them do it.

If a man blaspheme the Spirit is it God making him do it?

God forbid!! even the though of such a thing.

it is soo horrible i can barely even ask the questions.

Woe unto men when they call good evil and evil good. Or I would also say when they accuse God of doing iniquity or making men sin, blaspheme and lie etc.

 

[LoveofTruth]

according to John, God must be forcing me to disagree with his view on this.

 

[LoveofTruth]

What is wrong with God being in total control ? Do you know someone else who could do a better job : certainly not man : Heb 12(2), Col 1(17), Rom 9(11-23)

the problem is that scripture does not teach what you do here and your view makes God force men to sin, do iniquity, lie, blaspheme etc. That is horribel

Is Christ the minister of sin? God forbid!!!!!!

 

[salt-n-light]

Ok so then eat, drink, be marry and die. If God already predestined you to be with him or be damned, then surely it wouldn’t matter what you do....

 

[salt-n-light]

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