ONE VERSE TOTALLY DESTROYS FREE WILL !

[John tower]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

 

[Dave L]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

The way I understand this is; we freely choose what we want and therefore incur responsibility for our sins. But God controls the reasons we base our choices on. Our will always responds to the reasons (secondary causes) God uses to control us to his determined end.

 

[Valetic]

Do you really have deep understanding of this truth? I haven't been able to wrap my head around this subject for several months now. It appears I have free will but it also appears God's omniscience predestined my entire life, everyone else's life, and everything that would ever happen in the universe since eternities past. Why then am I not a robot and have a conscience and the perception of free will if God chose everything since eternities past?

Without the free will how do we love freely?

 

[Greg J.]

There is no conflict between predestination and free will. Both are true at the same time according to a multitude of passages in Scripture. This is the starting place to understanding predestination and free will, because if you do not believe they are both true at the same time, you will build your understanding on a false foundation.

 

[Valetic]

I don't want to be Calvinist or arimanian or whatever at this point I want to know truth.

 

[Stringfellow_Hawke]

There is no conflict between predestination and free will. Both are true at the same time according to a multitude of passages in Scripture. This is the starting place to understanding predestination and free will, because if you do not believe they are both true at the same time, you will build your understanding on a false foundation.

^^^ THIS ^^^

 

[Dave L]

Do you really have deep understanding of this truth? I haven't been able to wrap my head around this subject for several months now. It appears I have free will but it also appears God's omniscience predestined my entire life, everyone else's life, and everything that would ever happen in the universe since eternities past. Why then am I not a robot and have a conscience and the perception of free will if God chose everything since eternities past?

Without the free will how do we love freely?

Keep in mind we always choose for a reason. God controls us through the reasons he sends that we base our choices on. You always choose what you want according to reason.

 

[tampasteve]

In general, it is not best practice to create (or destroy) a theology over one verse. It needs context, both in the surrounding text and through the Bible.

 

[A_Thinker]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

I think that the remarkable thing is that God is, both, able to grant us a measure of free-will ... AND to obtain the objective of His own will.

Like a father and His children ... the children have a measure of free-will, ... but the Father's will is not violated.

Paul also teaches that God is able to WORK good out of evil, ... demonstrating that He doesn't have to predestine every detail of a man or woman's life ... to achieve His own will ...

 

[RaymondG]

What if the beginning and the end is already written....but our path to it, and how long it takes us to get there, is determined by our will......our prayers, thoughts and actions. What if we are out here walking the maze of infinite paths, wasting our inheritance.....while our father sits home waiting for us....not caring how long we take to come to our senses, allowing us to make as many mistakes as we choose to before coming back home.?

 

[Sanoy]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him...

But the "we" is defined in the next verse as a collective body in the timeline, not the individual.

12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.

People living in the first century AD are predestined to witness and hope in Christ, the majority of whom are the Gentiles who were predestined to receive Christ before the Jews as a nation, which Paul relates in greater detail through much of Romans. This group is the group spoken of in prophecy, and so predestined. But prophecy has no causal influence over free will, it is merely a description of the outcome of that free will.

 

[bling]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

Could God have predestined before time began to save everyone who humbly accepted His help (Charity) as pure charity throughout man’s time? (We know that is what God does.)

If mature adults needs to make a very limited free will choice (maybe just one free will choice) to allow them to become like God Himself (in that they would have a limited amount of Godly type Love) would God’s Love and power be great enough to allow as part of God’s will to set up each mature adult to accept or reject His Charity as their choice?

If a prodigal son type decides to be macho, take the punishment he fully deserves and not bother his father further with his present, how does that work against the father’s plans, remaining waiting for the sons return?

The father does not change and he is not going to send out servants to drag that rebellious disobedient son back home. The father raised the son right, so the son can make the right free will choice, but it has to be the sons choice to humbly accept pure sacrificial charity or the son is not accepting the Love of the father.

 

[A_Thinker]

What if the beginning and the end is already written....but our path to it, and how long it takes us to get there, is determined by our will......our prayers, thoughts and actions. What if we are out here walking the maze of infinite paths, wasting our inheritance.....while our father sits home waiting for us....not caring how long we take to come to our senses, allowing us to make as many mistakes as we choose to before coming back home.?

The only change I would make in your proposed scenario, ... is that God intervenes at points, ... perhaps to push us in the right directions ... or to provide guidance away from the wrong directions ...

 

[RaymondG]

The only change I would make in your proposed scenario, ... is that God intervenes at points, ... perhaps to push us in the right directions ... or to provide guidance away from the wrong directions ...

Yes, I believe He acts according to the "prayers, thoughts and actions" mentioned in my post.

 

[A_Thinker]

Yes, I believe He acts according to the "prayers, thoughts and actions" mentioned in my post.

So ... God's actions are always a response to ours ?

I don't think I would agree.

He appears to be quite proactive ... (consider His confrontation of establishment of the plan of salvation ... prior to the Creation) ...

 

[RaymondG]

So ... God's actions are always a response to ours ?

I don't think I would agree ...

What actions does He take that isnt in response to us? Actions that affect us whether we believe they happened or not, that is.

 

[A_Thinker]

What actions does He take that isnt in response to us? Actions that affect us whether we believe they happened or not, that is.

Consider His confrontation of establishment of the plan of salvation ... prior to the Creation ...

... or maybe His unconditional blessings bestowed upon mankind ...

Matthew 5

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for He makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

[RaymondG]

Consider His confrontation of establishment of the plan of salvation ... prior to the Creation ...

... or maybe His unconditional blessings bestowed upon mankind ...

Matthew 5

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for He makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

These are things that affect all.....Laws put in place at the beginning that will stand....like what we call the law of gravity. I've referring to things that affect us as individuals apart from one another.....

 

[HTacianas]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

Are we to assume that God predestined the Israelites to become a nation, then predestined Himself to swear to destroy them and build a nation from the descendants of Moses, then predestined Himself to change His mind about the whole thing?

Calvinist predestination does not survive the book of Exodus. Go and read it, then tell me where I went wrong.

 

[Chinchilla]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

Did you have free will to post about free will ?