ONE VERSE TOTALLY DESTROYS FREE WILL !

[bcbsr]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

He's talking about the destiny of those who have already come to faith and are thus saved. "Predestined" there is equivalent to the doctrine of eternal security.

However, every command and exhortation implies free will. For example:

With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Acts 2:40

 

[Saint Steven]

What if the beginning and the end is already written....but our path to it, and how long it takes us to get there, is determined by our will......our prayers, thoughts and actions. What if we are out here walking the maze of infinite paths, wasting our inheritance.....while our father sits home waiting for us....not caring how long we take to come to our senses, allowing us to make as many mistakes as we choose to before coming back home.?

Right. God has the perspective to see the end from the beginning.

We are stilling living in a point in time of human history. For God, the end result is already in clear view. As the word says:

Romans 8:28-30
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

 

[zoidar]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

Cherry picking ...

Why is it so important to you trying to convince other Christians there is no free will?

 

[aiki]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

And the glaring problem with this thinking is that it ultimately makes God into a monster and empties our behaviour of any moral dimension. If we have no free will, the rapist merely enacts his divine programming; the murderer, too, is just doing what he must do. They aren't guilty of evil any more than the computer that fires a nuclear warhead that kills hundreds of thousands of people is guilty of evil. Both are simply doing what they were made to do. And who makes the rapist rape and the murderer murder? God. It is His will those without free will are acting out. Are you sure you want to make Ephesians 1:11 the ground for this sort of awful thinking?

 

[Der Alte]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

If this is the only verse that matters why did God give the other 31,171 verses?

 

[2tim_215]

What He predestinated is that there would be some who would choose Him. Any who have chosen to walk with God were predestinated to do so. Whether or not you choose to or choose not to, will be your choice. That verse in Ephesians was written to those who HAVE chosen Him and they were thus predestined to do so.

 

[Kersh]

Anytime you say that one verse, by itself completely proves or disproves anything, your hermeneutics is automatically suspect.

If the free will debate could be resolved so easily, we would not see such great Christian minds as John Wesley and Jonathan Edward's (who were interestingly great admirers of each other's work) come to such vastly different conclusion. For the Calvinist, therefore, to say, "this core doctrine is completely proven by this one verse" is to impugn the integrity of Wesley, Arminius, and many great and humble Christians who followed their footsteps. And, for an Arminian to say the same would be to impugn the reputation of Calvin, Spurgeon, Edwards, and many great and humble Christians who follow in the footsteps.

Through my own study of Scripture, I believe quite strongly that free will, as understood by Arminius and Wesley, is woven into the fabric of the entire Bible, particularly, but not only, in the New Testament. However, as much as I may disagree with them, I know many fine and sincere Christians who don't see that at all, but through their study of Scripture see something more akin to compatibilism. While this distinction is important, it is not something that should be used to undermine Christian brotherhood.

 

[Dave L]

John 13(18): not according to Jesus

“I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.” (John 13:18)

How does this not agree with what I've said?

 

[Loren T.]

Why did Jesus tell us to pray: "Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven" if God's will is always done here on earth?

 

[Greg J.]

Just read the verse brother : ALL THINGS AFTER HIS WILL ONLY : crystal clear , unless false teaching is blocking you from seeing it

How would you know what is preventing me from seeing a truth?

By the way, when there are a multitude of verses pertaining to a topic, there is no such thing as one verse, in a vacuum, that reveals the truth.

 

[2consider]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

If we have no freewill, then the bible, Jesus' sacrifice and everything else is pointless. There wouldn't be any reason at all for God to make us aware of his existence. Everything God did, everything jesus did, everything spiritual basically everything is pointless, and god would just be a jerk for doing any of it. END OF STORY

 

[PaulCyp1]

Seriously? So you have never freely chosen to do anything in your life? You are just a robot that performs as it was programmed to perform? You didn't choose to post this question? Or to read this answer? Or to eat what you wanted for breakfast today? The best way to know if you are misinterpreting the Bible is to see if reality corresponds to your interpretation.

 

[RaymondG]

Seriously? So you have never freely chosen to do anything in your life? You are just a robot that performs as it was programmed to perform? You didn't choose to post this question? Or to read this answer? Or to eat what you wanted for breakfast today? The best way to know if you are misinterpreting the Bible is to see if reality corresponds to your interpretation.

When you dream....does it seem like that other people in your dream know that they are robots put there by you and will cease to be when you wake up?

 

[fat wee robin]

The only change I would make in your proposed scenario, ... is that God intervenes at points, ... perhaps to push us in the right directions ... or to provide guidance away from the wrong directions ...

I think that we can look to modern technology programmes to guess at how God organises His plans for us .All of creation lives within ,and under laws created by the Creator .These are physical laws which our brains and bodies are created within .

When we are following the 'good path ' we grow in a positive way ,and when we don't, we become sick both morally and physically .Every choice we make leads towards or away from the kind of perfection in which we were created .We do not see the conséquences until much time has passed ,at least in the more important things , possibly until we are completely ruined .

God Himself provided us with guidance, support and forgiveness which we must prevail of, as we grow and learn , and without which the automatic laws would condemn us . (as we break them )
So we have complete 'free will ' ,but we must be learning to discern the 'spirit' of God's will ,and in this way we will choose the best for ourselves within God's greater plan .

 

[LoveofTruth]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

That verse shows that God does not take counsel if anyone else.

But these two verses shatters your concept here and there are many others.

Isaiah 66 - 3....Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.”

And as far as freewill we need only one verse to prove it

Psalm 119 - 108. Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.”

 

[LoveofTruth]

One single verse totally destroys free will , and that verse is Ephesians 1(11): In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who works ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF " HIS OWN WILL "
If he works ALL THINGS AFTER HIS OWN WILL : it is impossible for us to have our own will , because ALL THINGS are already after his will : how can we have our iwn free will if all things are already after his will : IMPOSSIBLE : CASE CLOSED : END OF STORY !!!

The main questions to ask are

1.Do you believe God makes men sin?

2.Dies God make men deny him? Or blaspheme?

3. Does God make men lie?

4. Is God the father of lies or is Satan?

These are such horrible thoughts here and I can say God forbid any who say God makes men blaspheme, lie, sin, do iniquity etc

God cannot lie, God cannot do iniquity, God cannot deny himself, or change etc.

 

[fat wee robin]

What actions does He take that isnt in response to us? Actions that affect us whether we believe they happened or not, that is.

No God's laws of Creation are always working behind the scènes . From what you are saying it looks as though God was created by us ,which is ridiculous .That God made creation as a reaction to us .
I hope you have just phrased it badly .

 

[RaymondG]

No God's laws of Creation are always working behind the scènes . From what you are saying it looks as though God was created by us ,which is ridiculous .That God made creation as a reaction to us .
I hope you have just phrased it badly .

I see nothing wrong with you believing what you believe.

 

[2tim_215]

That verse shows that God does not take counsel if anyone else.

But these two verses shatters your concept here and there are many others.

Isaiah 66 - 3....Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.”

And as far as freewill we need only one verse to prove it

Psalm 119 - 108. Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.”

Evan when we praise God is He making us do it or do we CHOOSE to do it? If He forced it, would it matter?

 

[TuxAme]

If it was this obvious, determinism would have been taught by the early Church. Don't you think that the apostles and their disciples, and those within the first few hundred years of the Church would have been aware that God was forcing their actions?

If we're not in control of our will, we can merit neither heaven nor hell.