Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

claninja

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At the 6Th Seal the islands and the mountains are MOVED by few inches.

In Revelation 16:20 THEY ARE NOT FOUND.

Same Greek words for heaven

Heaven (οὐρανὸς) departs
Revelation 6:14 (the 6th seal) and heaven departed as a scroll rolled up,
Heaven (οὐρανός,) fled and was not found
Revelation 20:11 the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them

The mountains and islands were moved OUT of their place. They were removed. Not inches as you say. Where does it say they were only moved inches? According to strongs:
b. to move from a place, to remove: τί ἐκ τοῦ τόπου,
Revelation 2:5; ἐκ τῶν τόπων, passive, Revelation 6:14.
Revelation 6:14 and every mountain and island — out of their places they were moved
 
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keras

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and the stars shall fall from heaven. I don't see where the text instead states----and the stars shall fall from heaven again.
We have meteor showers striking the earth on a regular basis.
You have no basis for the idea that there is only one 'stars falling from the heavens', event.
 
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keras

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and the stars shall fall from heaven. I don't see where the text instead states----and the stars shall fall from heaven again.
DP.
 
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keras

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Speaking for myself, I am PostTrib Premil. By me concluding the 6th seal involves the 2nd coming, I'm not seeing how that might somehow contradict Post Trib nor Premil. I'm not certain why you need the 6th seal to not involve the 2nd coming?
It is a serious error to place the Sixth Seal at the Return, Jesus does not come for His Day of wrath when He appears in His glory.
The sequence of Revelation is plain, the Sixth Seal comes years before the Return. To shuffle it, is to incur the curse of Rev 22:18-19
 
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BABerean2

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Do you agree that the Mountains and Island MOVED OUT OF THEIR PLACE AT THE 6TH SEAL--- --IS DIFFERENT THAT NOT FOUND AT ALL in Revelation 16:20?

I have provided the proof that the Japan Island have been moved out of its place by 8 feet by an earthquake few years ago [GPS Stations and Satellite Image]...and we can still found the Japan Island.

You who have teach geology will surely enjoy the following:
Quake moved Japan coast 8 feet, shifted Earth's axis
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.earthquake.tsunami.earth/index.html

My students studied plate tectonics every year.

One of my examples was the famous 1906 San Francisco earthquake, in which the shift was about 20 feet in a few seconds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_San_Francisco_earthquake

As your example in Japan shows, these changes happen on a regular basis somewhere on the planet.

What we are seeing in the Book of Revelation is an unheard of cataclysmic event, that goes well beyond normal.

Now you have gone from inches, to feet...

Does the NRV version now say inches or feet in Revelation chapter 6?


.
 
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Riberra

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My students studied plate tectonics every year.

One of my examples was the famous 1906 San Francisco earthquake, in which the shift was about 20 feet in a few seconds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_San_Francisco_earthquake

As your example in Japan shows, these changes happen on a regular basis somewhere on the planet.

What we are seeing in the Book of Revelation is an unheard of cataclysmic event, that goes well beyond normal.

Now you have gone from inches, to feet...

Does the NRV version now say inches or feet in Revelation chapter 6?
The 6TH Seal Great Earthquake [Revelation 6:12-17] refer to a WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE of magnitude 8.9 to 9 .The buildings and infrastructures in the cities will be damaged or totally destroyed in consequence ...the buildings who have been made to resist big earthquakes will probably resist....the Earth will not be destroyed in chunks of rocks floating in space AT THE 6TH SEAL....Revelation 6:15-16 tell us that the survivors will be in total panic and fears.

You know that even if the mountains and island will be moved by only few inches AT THE 6TH Seal the Prophecy will be fulfilled ...as they will have MOVED OUT OF THEIR PLACE.

------
AND FINALLY ....MANY YEARS LATER THE WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE OF THE 7 TH VIAL ....AN EARTHQUAKE SUCH HAVE NEVER HAPPENED SINCE THERE IS HUMANS ON THE EARTH Revelation 16:17-21 will cause the TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF THE CITIES OF THE WORLD WHO WILL BE REDUCED TO A PILE OF DEBRIS....AND THE BOOK OF REVELATION TELL US THAT THE SURVIVORS WILL BLASPHEME GOD FOR THESE PLAGUES [Revelation 16:20-21]...AND FOR THE PLAGUE OF THE HAIL OF ROCKS COMING FROM HEAVEN WEIGHTING 100 LBS EACH.

Revelation 16:20-21
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And great hail, [every stone] about the weight of a talent, cometh down out of heaven upon men: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof is exceeding great.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The 6TH Seal Great Earthquake [Revelation 6:12-17] refer to a WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE of magnitude 8.9 to 9 .The buildings and infrastructures in the cities will be damaged or totally destroyed in consequence ...the buildings who have been made to resist big earthquakes will probably resist....the Earth will not be destroyed in chunks of rocks floating in space AT THE 6TH SEAL....Revelation 6:15-16 tell us that the survivors will be in total panic and fears...........
WHAT?! Hogwash....Where do you get that nonsense from?...You have been reading to many end time books....

The phrase "Great earthquake" is mentioned in only 7 verses in the Bible, 1 time in the OT in conjunction with Israel, and 6 times in the NT,......

I am not going to post all 7 verses, one can look at a concordance..........


https://www.blueletterbible.org/sea...=great+earthquake&t=NKJV&ss=1#s=s_primary_0_1

Ezekiel 38:19
"And in My jealously, in fire of rage of Me I speak, if not in that day, shall become a great earthquake/רַעַשׁ (ra`ash),<H7494> on ground of Israel"

[Revelation 16:18]

Revelation 16:18
and became lightnings and thunders and voices/sounds and a great earthquake/seismoV <4578> became,

such-as not became since the men became upon the land, such proportion an earthquake/seismoV <4578> thus great. [Haggai 2:6/Ezekiel 38:19]
 
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keras

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WHAT?! Hogwash....Where do you get that nonsense from?...You have been reading to many end time books....
No, what we read is the Prophetic Word.
Revelation 6:12-14 I watched as the Lamb broke the Sixth Seal. There was a violent earthquake, the sun became blackened and the moon shone blood red. The stars, [Greek- asters, meaning any type of heavenly object, which include our satellites] fell to the earth and the sky rolled away like a scroll, as every mountain and island was dislodged from their place.

These prophesies are also about the Sixth Seal event:
EARTHQUAKESThe electromagnetic microwave effect of the huge Coronal Mass Ejection, direct hit upon the earth will cause volcanoes & earthquakes.

Haggai 2:6 In a little while, I shall shake the sky, the earth and break the power of the godless.

Psalms 144:5 Lord, part the sky and come down, touch the mountains, so they pour forth smoke.

Isaiah 24:18-19 ..the windows of the sky above are opened, the earths foundations shake, it is convulsed and reels wildly.

Amos 8:8-9 On that day the earth will quake like ocean waves.

Psalms 18:7 The earth shook and quaked, the mountains trembled because of His anger.

Jeremiah 4:24 The mountains were reeling and the hills rocked to and fro.

Habakkuk 3:6 The Lord shakes the earth, the mountains are flattened.

The earth’s orbit may be speeded up by this event, resulting in a 360 day year, that will make reality out the time periods given to us in Revelation and Daniel.
Isaiah 13:13...and the earth will be moved out of her place.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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WHAT?! Hogwash....Where do you get that nonsense from?...You have been reading to many end time books....
No, what we read is the Prophetic Word.
All of us here do.......and your point?
Do you agree with his view?
Riberra said:
The 6TH Seal Great Earthquake [Revelation 6:12-17] refer to a WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE of magnitude 8.9 to 9 .The buildings and infrastructures in the cities will be damaged or totally destroyed in consequence ...the buildings
I recommend a reading of 2Peter 3:16

John 5:39 "Ye are searching the Writings that ye are seeming in them life age-during to be having,
and those are the ones-testifying about Me".

2Peter 3:16
As also in all the letters, speaking in them about these-things;
in which are difficult to understand any which the un-learned and un-steadfast are wresting/twisting, as also the rest of Writings,
toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [# 684 used in Revelation 17:8, 11]
 
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BABerean2

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The 6TH Seal Great Earthquake [Revelation 6:12-17] refer to a WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE of magnitude 8.9 to 9 .The buildings and infrastructures in the cities will be damaged or totally destroyed in consequence ...the buildings who have been made to resist big earthquakes will probably resist....the Earth will not be destroyed in chunks of rocks floating in space AT THE 6TH SEAL....Revelation 6:15-16 tell us that the survivors will be in total panic and fears.

You know that even if the mountains and island will be moved by only few inches AT THE 6TH Seal the Prophecy will be fulfilled ...as they will have MOVED OUT OF THEIR PLACE.

I am having trouble keeping up with the NRV Bible.

You proved they had a big earthquake in Japan that moved the plate 8 feet, but you say the earthquake in Revelation 6 is only inches.
I cannot find the word "inches" in my Bible, at Revelation 6.

Then according to the NRV the earthquake in Revelation 6:12-17 will be magnitude 8.9 to 9.
Once again I cannot find the word "magnitude" in Revelation 6 of my Bible.

You complained when I said the moon does not give its normal light during a blood moon, which is a fact, and now you are coming up with all kinds of new information in the NRV Bible.

When can the rest of us get a copy of your translation?


.
 
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Riberra

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WHAT?! Hogwash....Where do you get that nonsense from?...You have been reading to many end time books....


From the Book of Revelation that you don't read, because some false teachers made you believe falsely that you will be raptured to Heaven before these things happen.

Revelation 6:12-14
12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of the heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs when she is shaken of a great wind.

14 And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
 
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Riberra

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I am having trouble keeping up with the NRV Bible.

You proved they had a big earthquake in Japan that moved the plate 8 feet, but you say the earthquake in Revelation 6 is only inches.
I cannot find the word "inches" in my Bible, at Revelation 6.

Then according to the NRV the earthquake in Revelation 6:12-17 will be magnitude 8.9 to 9.
Once again I cannot find the word "magnitude" in Revelation 6 of my Bible.

You complained when I said the moon does not give its normal light during a blood moon, which is a fact, and now you are coming up with all kinds of new information in the NRV Bible.

When can the rest of us get a copy of your translation?

It is not said that the Earth will be TOTALLY DESTROYED into chunks of rocks floating in space at the 6Th Seal....but that is what you say will happen...

Do you agree that even if the mountains and the island are moved by only few inches or by few feet ....THEY WILL HAVE MOVED OUT OF THEIR PLACE.

Revelation 6:15
14 And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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WHAT?! Hogwash....Where do you get that nonsense from?...You have been reading to many end time books....
From the Book of Revelation that you don't read, because some false teachers made you believe that you will be raptured to Heaven before these things happen.
I don't believe in a future rapture......get yer facts straight......
As far as me not reading Revelation, you outright lie.......


https://www.christianforums.com/threads/revelation-chapter-1-verses.7167075/
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/revelation-chapter-2-1st-four-churches.8064465/
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/revelation-chapter-3-the-last-3-churches.8072344/
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Reading is one thing ,understanding what is written you have some step to climb before achieve it.
I was about to say the same about you, but you beat me to it.....you are not even on the 1st rung yet........
Now do you want to keep butting heads with me or go back to addressing the OP?
 
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Riberra

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I was about to say the same about you, but you beat me to it.....
You have already totally miss the boat by thinking that everything have been fulfilled in 70 AD and that the only thing yet to come ..is the Second Coming of Jesus.
 
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BABerean2

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From the Book of Revelation that you don't read, because some false teachers made you believe falsely that you will be raptured to Heaven before these things happen.

Revelation 6:12-14
12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of the heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs when she is shaken of a great wind.

14 And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
(The moon does not give its normal light during a blood moon.)

Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


How many times in the future will the sun turn black, and then the moon change its brightness, and then the stars of heaven fall to the earth?

What does the NRV say to us little children?

.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You have already totally miss the boat by thinking that everything have been fulfilled in 70 AD and that the only thing yet to come ..is the coming of Jesus.
I never claimed ALL of Daniel, ALL of the Olivet Discourse and ALL of Revelation are fulfilled.....Believe me, I wish I could prove all of it was fulfilled.
 
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Riberra

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Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

,and the stars shall fall from heaven in Matthew 24:29-31 are the Angels OF GOD ---The Armies from Heaven- who will descend from Heaven with Jesus who will bring with Him the Souls of The Saints Martyrs.

Revelation 19:11-14
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

When it come to the Book of Revelation and End Times Prophecies you have shown that you are like a little children who must be guided.

You have so much to learn !!!

That being said ...my time is over here.!Good Bye !

Others will follow with an important warning ... in due times [Revelation 14:6-13 ]
 
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Riberra

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I never claimed ALL of Daniel, ALL of the Olivet Discourse and ALL of Revelation are fulfilled.....Believe me, I wish I could prove all of it was fulfilled.
So that is not you who nearly always refers to 70 AD and who think that the Book of Revelation is only metaphors and symbolic language,,... a spiritual way of talking about the actions of Satan against the Church during the ''Church Age'' ...Until the Second Coming of Jesus.
 
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