Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Dave L]

Scripture support???

Find scripture support for them. It doesn't exist. Jesus said the kingdom comes without observation. And is not of this world.

 

[Dave L]

It's actually the opposite. Your idea comes from outside the Bible Scriptures. If you had any proof of what you say, then you would have at least been able to quote the relevant Scriptures as I have done in my posts.

Jesus said the kingdom is spiritual, not of this world. And it comes without observation.

 

[Biblewriter]

You still end up with glorified saints being smashed into submission with a rod of iron, only to attack the rest of the saints in glorified bodies when Satan is loosed.

There is nothing in scripture that even remotely suggests that those living in the world during the millennium are "glorified saints." This is a product of pure imagination. The scriptures are very clear that that marriage, birth, death, sin, and sickness will still be in the world at that time.
All of these are explicitly stated in regard to that time, and stated in clear, plain, language. The fact that you deny that these scriptures exist does not get rid of them. I have alrready cited many of them in the links I have provided.

 

[seventysevens]

Your entire end time scenario has no direct support from scripture. You base it on ideas scripture is totally unaware of.

LOL you say that simply because you have no real true understanding of ANY of it , that is why you refuse to actually prove what you proclaim to be true , you just focusing on what you prefer to be true and not at all what is actually true , you continue to fail to understand because you have a preference that is not at all of scripture

 

[seventysevens]

Jesus said the kingdom is spiritual, not of this world. And it comes without observation.

That has been explained and proven , but your preference overrides scripture

 

[Davy]

This is gross distortion of scripture. The scripture you quoted does not say that the righteous and the wicked dead rise at the same time.
....

Oh, but the John 5:28-29 Scripture does... show BOTH resurrection types occur on the SAME DAY of Jesus' 2nd coming:

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

It doesn't say, "for the hours" plural is coming; it says "the hour", pointing to a specific hour. And the hour when that specific "voice" is only on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming:

1 Thess 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

This is actually very easy. Only those who want to deny that John 5:28-29 Scripture as written do it just to keep their tradition.

 

[Biblewriter]

Find scripture support for them. It doesn't exist. Jesus said the kingdom comes without observation. And is not of this world.

The scriptural support for this is all over the Bible. Try Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Zechariah for starters.

 

[seventysevens]

All physical kingdom theories are wrong. The kingdom is spiritual.

Then why will there be a new earth , and animals on it , trees and rivers ,,you suppose they are all spiritual ?

 

[Biblewriter]

Oh, but the John 5:28-29 Scripture does... show BOTH resurrection types occur on the SAME DAY of Jesus' 2nd coming:

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

It doesn't say, "for the hours" plural is coming; it says "the hour", pointing to a specific hour. And the hour when that specific "voice" is only on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming:

1 Thess 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

This is actually very easy. Only those who want to deny that John 5:28-29 Scripture as written do it just to keep their tradition.

No, I have already posted hard proof that the word "hour" is often used in scripture for a time period of undefined length. So this scripture says that these events will take place within an undefined time period. But Revelation 20 :5 explicitly says that there is a thousand years between them.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

All physical kingdom theories are wrong. The kingdom is spiritual.

So easy and simple, even a child can understand..........so one spiritually minded would think........

Matthew 9:
35 And Jesus was going up and down all the cities and the villages, teaching in their synagogues, and proclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom, and healing every sickness and every malady among the people.
36 And having seen the multitudes, He was moved with compassion for them, that they were faint and cast aside, as sheep not having a shepherd,
37 then saith He to His disciples,
‘The harvest indeed [is] abundant, but the workmen few;
38 beseech ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that He may put forth workmen to His harvest.’

Matthew 13:30
"Suffer-ye! to be together-growing both until the Harvest.
And in the time of the Harvest I shall be declaring to the Harvesters 'together-collect the darnel........"[Reve 14:15]
Revelation 14:15
And another Messenger came out out of the Sanctuary crying out in a great voice great to the One sitting upon the cloud "send! the sickle of thee and reap!
that came the hour to reap, that is dried the harvest of the land. [Joel 3:13/Matthew 13:30]

 

[Biblewriter]

Well, I've already shown Rev.20:5 is not pointing to a resurrection from flesh death, but a resurrection from a liable to die soul condition while alive in a body of incorruption.

No, you have not shown this. You have alleged it. But that is a far different matter from showing it. And you cannot show it, for this concept is directly contrary to many scriptures.

 

[Dave L]

Then why will there be a new earth , and animals on it , trees and rivers ,,you suppose they are all spiritual ?

Jesus said his Kingdom (your Millennium) is not of this world. Nor does it come with observation (as your millennium does). Nor is it 1000 years long wracked with sin and death (as your millennium is). But much of the golden age prophecies take place now in heaven where Jesus reigns from David's throne. And forever in the New Heavens and earth.

 

[Davy]

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom = Satan has only the glorified saints to deceive and manipulate after being loosed.

The nations will NOT be in flesh and blood bodies during Christ's future Millennium reign. You still don't get it. God's consuming fire will end this present flesh world:

2 Peter 3:10-13
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

ALL... peoples after that event on the day of Jesus' return, will be in incorruptible bodies, including the unsaved nations. In Zechariah 14 we are told that after Jesus' return, all nations will be required to come up to Jerusalem to worship the King from year to year, and keep the feast of tabernacles. And it includes those of the nations left over from the armies that came against Jerusalem on the last day of this world. That is the wicked, also who are unsaved during the 1,000 years. The rest of the "nations" of Rev.20 are also the unsaved. Only those inside the gates of Rev.22:14-15 are the saints.

 

[Dave L]

The nations will NOT be in flesh and blood bodies during Christ's future Millennium reign. You still don't get it. God's consuming fire will end this present flesh world:

2 Peter 3:10-13
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

ALL... peoples after that event on the day of Jesus' return, will be in incorruptible bodies, including the unsaved nations. In Zechariah 14 we are told that after Jesus' return, all nations will be required to come up to Jerusalem to worship the King from year to year, and keep the feast of tabernacles. And it includes those of the nations left over from the armies that came against Jerusalem on the last day of this world. That is the wicked, also who are unsaved during the 1,000 years. The rest of the "nations" of Rev.20 are also the unsaved. Only those inside the gates of Rev.22:14-15 are the saints.

The wicked dead are not in the Kingdom, they are in hell.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus said his Kingdom (your Millennium) is not of this world. Nor does it come with observation (as your millennium does). Nor is it 1000 years long wracked with sin and death (as your millennium is). But much of the golden age prophecies take place now in heaven where Jesus reigns from David's throne. And forever in the New Heavens and earth.

Sounds good to me.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The wicked dead are not in the Kingdom, they are in hell.

Scripture for that please?
They are in hell now?

 

[Davy]

Actually I did show it from Scripture. Just because some cannot understand there is no more flesh death in that Rev.20 chapter, because it's only speaking of the existence of the "second death", that's not my fault if brethren can't wake up to that, but want to listen to men's traditions instead.

Likewise, with simple mention of a "first"resurrection in Rev.20, that automatically presupposes another 2nd resurrection unto Jesus like the first. And another resurrection like it means one unto eternal Life, putting on immortality, not the "resurrection of damnation" which many think the 2nd one is about at the end of the 1,000 years.

 

[Dave L]

Scripture for that please?

The kingdom is spiritual and one must be born again to see and enter it. The wicked cannot do this.

 

[Biblewriter]

Jesus said his Kingdom (your Millennium) is not of this world. Nor does it come with observation (as your millennium does). Nor is it 1000 years long wracked with sin and death (as your millennium is). But much of the golden age prophecies take place now in heaven where Jesus reigns from David's throne. And forever in the New Heavens and earth.

To deny that this will actually take place, requires you to deny that seemingly hundreds of scriptures mean what they explicitly say.

 

[Dave L]

Actually I did show it from Scripture. Just because some cannot understand there is no more flesh death in that Rev.20 chapter, because it's only speaking of the existence of the "second death", that's not my fault if brethren can't wake up to that, but want to listen to men's traditions instead.

Likewise, with simple mention of a "first"resurrection in Rev.20, that automatically presupposes another 2nd resurrection unto Jesus like the first. And another resurrection like it means one unto eternal Life, putting on immortality, not the "resurrection of damnation" which many think the 2nd one is about at the end of the 1,000 years.

Again we have lots of hat and no cattle. Revelation 20 will not support your claims.