Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

Dave L

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Scripture simply says 70 weeks are decreed , it does not say that it has to be all at once , it is broken into segments , and says what the segments are for , you are forcing scripture to what you prefer it to mean and not actually what it depicts

You show you have no understanding about this topic as well , you are merely following a false doctrine and since you just parroting and not studying , you not even know it
You cannot add time to 70 weeks and still have 70 weeks. Why would Gabriel use seventy sevens if he didn't mean seventy sevens? Wouldn't he say an indefinite period of time instead?
 
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claninja

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Tubal and Meshech were never cities, they were nations.

Sure.....Asia Minor where the descendants of tubal and meschech dwelled during the time of Ezekiel.

and by far the main mass of both of these nations fled into what is now Russia.

.....in the 11th century. About 1500 years after the prophecy given by Ezekiel. Those that fled in the 11th century from Asia Minor to Russia are the people from tubal and Meshech? nations that did not exist anymore?
 
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seventysevens

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You cannot add time to 70 weeks and still have 70 weeks. Why would Gabriel use seventy sevens if he didn't mean seventy sevens? Wouldn't he say an indefinite period of time instead?
Again you have zero as in none understanding about this matter , you simply force your private interpretation , AGAIN it is broken downs into SEGMENTS of time EACH with it's own beginning and end with a grand total combined of 70
 
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BABerean2

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Scripture simply says 70 weeks are decreed , it does not say that it has to be all at once , it is broken into segments , and says what the segments are for , you are forcing scripture to what you prefer it to mean and not actually what it depicts

You show you have no understanding about this topic as well , you are merely following a false doctrine and since you just parroting and not studying , you not even know it

Like ignoring the fact that the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jewish people for a period of about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles, based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18...


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner



And then you brow-beat those who dare to disagree with your viewpoint.

.
 
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seventysevens

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And then you brow-beat those who dare to disagree with your viewpoint.

.
This is what you do everyday all day , continually attack everyone in any thread that you don't agree with,you brow beat religiously , there are hundreds of posts of you doing this brow beating
 
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BABerean2

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This is what you do everyday all day , continually attack everyone in any thread that you don't agree with,you brow beat religiously , there are hundreds of posts of you doing this brow beating

Try responding with scripture.

Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat_7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat_7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

.
 
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seventysevens

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Try responding with scripture.
I will , only wish you would consider these BEFORE you attack people
Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat_7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat_7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

While you attempt to be so holy , youv'e failed
 
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BABerean2

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I will , only wish you would consider these BEFORE you attack people

The problem is that you view it as a personal attack if someone does not agree with your doctrine.

Some of those who promote modern Dispensational Theology are friends of mine.

One of them is my Sunday-school teacher.

Another is the man who I called upon when I had to replace my well pump. I helped him replace his pump, and he helped me.
He is a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary.


.
 
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Biblewriter

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It takes place after the dead in Christ are raised.

“For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17)

The gospels teach the resurrection happens on the last day.

This scripture clearly teaches that these two events take place at essentially the same time, although the raising of the "dead in Christ" will indeed take place before the living saints are "caught up together with them." For all together "meet the Lord in the air."
 
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Biblewriter

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The resurrection happens at the end of the world, followed by the rapture, followed by the New Heavens and earth.
Not even one scripture even hints at this scenario.
 
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Biblewriter

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A detail not supported by scripture = everything based on it is false too.
Actually, you have our doctrine backwards. Our understanding of prophecy is not based in the pre-trib rapture. Instead, our understanding of the timing of the rapture is based on the overall body of end time prophecy.
 
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Biblewriter

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This is far more than a hint.

“For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17)
This does not even so much as imply that the righteous dead and the wicked dead are raised are raised at the same time. in fact, the scriptures distinctly state the very opposite.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.. Revelation 20:4-5
 
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seventysevens

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The problem is that you view it as a personal attack if someone does not agree with your doctrine.
.
You whining about brow beating , geez since when is a beating not an attack , when I speak of you doing the brow beating, then you want to shift to the opposite ;you twist anything to suit your own purposes
 
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Biblewriter

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“Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:28–29)
The Greek word here translated "hour" is ora (word number 5610 in Strong's Greek Dictionary.) Although the basic meaning of this word is the twelveth part of a day (or the 24th part of a revolution of the earth on its axis), it is also used in scripture in various other ways, including:

23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. John 4:23

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. John 5:25

35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. John 5:35

2 They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. John 16:2

11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. Romans 13:11

8 For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 2 Corinthians 7:8

17 But we, brethren, having been taken away from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavored more eagerly to see your face with great desire. 1 Thessalonians 2:17

These re only a few of the places where this Greek word was used by the Hly Spirit to refer to an indistinct period of time.

The same is true of your argument that the two resurrections both take place at the last day. For the Greek word hmera, which literally translates as "day," (word 2250 in Strong's Greek Dctionary), does not only mean a single period in which thesun reashes the surface of the ground, nor does it only mean a single revolution of the earth on its axis. It is also used of an indistinct period of time in the following scriptures:

20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. John 14:20

23 And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you. John 16:23

26 In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you; John 16:26


17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. Acts 2:17


24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. Acts 3:24


1 Now in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplying, there arose a complaint against the Hebrews by the Hellenists, because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution. Acts 6:1

1 Now Saul was consenting to his death. At that time a great persecution arose against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Acts 8:1


18 So Paul still remained a good while. Then he took leave of the brethren and sailed for Syria, and Priscilla and Aquila were with him. He had his hair cut off at Cenchrea, for he had taken a vow. Acts 18:18

36 As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter." Romans 8:36


21 But to Israel he says: "All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people." Romans 10:21

2 For He says: "In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you." Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. 2 Corinthians 6:2


So both of your arguments on this point are groundless
 
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Biblewriter

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Sure.....Asia Minor where the descendants of tubal and meschech dwelled during the time of Ezekiel.



.....in the 11th century. About 1500 years after the prophecy given by Ezekiel. Those that fled in the 11th century from Asia Minor to Russia are the people from tubal and Meshech? nations that did not exist anymore?
These nations still exist today, but they now reside in what is now called Russia.
 
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Dave L

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The Greek word here translated "hour" is ora (word number 5610 in Strong's Greek Dictionary.) Although the basic meaning of this word is the twelveth part of a day (or the 24th part of a revolution of the earth), it is also used in scripture in various other ways, including:

23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. John 4:23

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. John 5:25

35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. John 5:35

2 They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. John 16:2

11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. Romans 13:11

8 For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while. 2 Corinthians 7:8

17 But we, brethren, having been taken away from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavored more eagerly to see your face with great desire. 1 Thessalonians 2:17

These re only a few of the places where this Greek word was used by the Hly Spirit to refer to an indistinct period of time.
It still happens on the last day. Jesus delivers the kingdom up to God after he defeats the last enemy - death, in the resurrection.

“For he must reign [now in heaven] until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” (1 Corinthians 15:25–26)
 
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Dave L

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This does not even so much as imply that the righteous dead and the wicked dead are raised are raised at the same time. in fact, the scriptures distinctly state the very opposite.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.. Revelation 20:4-5
But, the first resurrection IS the New Birth and finds completion on the last day in the resurrection of the body.

Besides, if you want to use Revelation 20, several more problems develop for your theory. One, you cannot find sinners until the end when Satan is loosed. And this involves glorified saints in sin while they attack the rest of the glorified saints. No flesh and blood allowed in the kingdom.
 
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Dave L

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Actually, you have our doctrine backwards. Our understanding of prophecy is not based in the pre-trib rapture. Instead, our understanding of the timing of the rapture is based on the overall body of end time prophecy.
Your understanding is based on silence. Nowhere does Gabriel say the seventy weeks are more than that.
 
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claninja

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These nations still exist today, but they now reside in what is now called Russia.

Meshech and tubal are no longer nations today, this is a simple fact. I'm betting, like most ancient tribal nations over the last 3000+ years, they migrated and mixed with multiple other cultures, settling all over Europe and asia.

Are the Hittites still a nation? how about the Caananites? The Amorites, are they still a nation?
 
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seventysevens

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Meshech and tubal are no longer nations today, this is a simple fact. I'm betting, like most ancient tribal nations over the last 3000+ years, they migrated and mixed with multiple other cultures, settling all over Europe and asia.
Just seen something on the News about this speaking of how small countries become merged or assimilated by larger more powerful countries when in close proximity with stronger military - sort of annexed into the larger nation
 
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