What think ye of Ezekiel's Temple?

[keras]

But the one I quoted explicitly states that some who are currently the enemies of the gospel are still beloved for the sake of their fathers, "for the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." You have not quoted even one scripture that negates this, and you cannot. For there is no such scripture.

In Romans 11:28-32: it does say some Jews will receive God's mercy, despite their continued rejection of Jesus.
There will be two main criteria for this:
1/ They must be actual members of the House of Judah. Not those who call themselves Jews, but are not.
2/ They must show true repentance and remorse, as Jeremiah 12:14-16 tells us:..... I will have pity on them [Judah] and bring them back to their Land, IF they learn the ways of My People, [Christians] and swear allegiance to My Name.
Note; the Jews will be so ashamed of their errors, they will keep very quiet. Ezekiel 16:63

However; the main Christian peoples who will go to live in all of the holy Land after the Lord has cleared and cleansed it, will be descendants of the ten Northern tribes; the House of Israel, joined by every faithful Christian from every race, nation and language.
This will fulfil God's promise to the Patriarchs, that their descendants will inherit the holy Land.

 

[seventysevens]

It's not simply "the word generation"...but the fact that Jesus said "THIS generation" He didn't say "that generation". Furthermore Jesus used the personal pronoun "you" so He's tell those whom He's speaking to, that they would see those things.


No. God's word is never meaningless. 2 Thessalonians was written to the church at Thessalonica...it says so in the first verse of the first chapter. It's written for us...not to us...and we learn from it...even today because His word is sure!


You simply don't get what Paul is saying, so you think it's vain. Paul spoke of Jesus "coming" an the Lord did come except it was a judgement coming in which Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews scattered. Even Paul and Peter were martyred and both predicted their deaths. Paul knew to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and that's how he, Peter and many others were gathered to our Lord.

This is really simple - just stop disregarding the questions Jesus answered which is " what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

when you are willing to show the dates - the year and the month and the day that Jesus had returned from heaven

when you can show the dates of when this verse happened -
"30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"

Jesus is saying the generation that sees these things happen - so IF the generation was the people standing in front of him when he said it - then you should be able to show when these things happened

If you cannot show when these things happened then you should be willing to acknowledge that Jesus was talking about the generation that does see these things happen and This generation will be the generation that sees Jesus coming and the end of the age

But since refusing to address these questions you do not understand that Jesus is addressing those questions

 

[Biblewriter]

The election refers to those who have repented and believed and are joined to the elect remnant of the faithful and obedient -- the Church. They are beloved for the sake of the fathers. They are the recipients of God's irrevocable gifts and calling.

Those who have not and will not repent and believe, were, are, and will continue to be, enemies of the gospel. Under no possible conditions could they ever be recipients of God's irrevocable gifts and calling.

Letting Scripture interpret Scripture, you cannot quote any other scripture that supports your misinterpretation.

I've cited over a dozen supporting Scriptures.

You've cited a single misinterpretation.

I have cited a scripture that explicitly says what I pointed out. You have cited over a dozen scriptures that speak of another subject, not a single one of which even addresses the question at hand.

But that is beside the point. You are completely wrong about the election and the elect. These terms do not refer just to those that have already repented, but also to those that God has chosen. In addition to scripture's use of this term in the way you mentioned, is also used of angels, and of the true Israel.

And the true Israel is defined in scripture as that portion of the natural Israel that shares the faith of their father Abraham.

 

[BABerean2]

And the true Israel is defined in scripture as that portion of the natural Israel that shares the faith of their father Abraham.

Is faith in Jesus Christ the fulfillment of the faith of father Abraham, which is found in Hebrews chapter 11?

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Is modern Orthodox Judaism, which uses the Babylonian Talmud as its source of truth, the faith of father Abraham?

.

 

[Biblewriter]

Is faith in Jesus Christ the fulfillment of the faith of father Abraham, which is found in Hebrews chapter 11?

Yes

Is modern Orthodox Judaism, which uses the Babylonian Talmud as its source of truth, the faith of father Abraham?.

No.

The end time scenario in the scriptures very clearly depicts Judah (the Jews) in the land when it all begins, but there in a state of rebellion and unbelief. Then it depicts them being put through God's severe discipline, in which two thirds of them will be killed. It distinctly shows that this discipline will work, and that the remnant will turn back to himself. But it also shows that this will happen after He returns, not before.

 

[claninja]

World stage means Publicly that the world knows him by HIS NAME
HIS NAME that identifies WHO HE IS- he has not yet been in the public scene but he will in the future

Paul states the man of sin is going to be on the world stage and the world will know his name?

But you seem to refuse the Literal scripture that states HOW Jesus destroys the man of lawlessness and the time frame because the scripture BOLDLY states the time frame is at Jesus return from heaven the time when all eyes see Jesus return from heaven that time is still in the future as in NOT happened yet

Again, I view scripture with a preterist lens, so I'm not refusing anything. I literally believe Jesus personally destroyed the man of sin just as God personally destroyed his enemies in the Old Testament because Jesus and the Father are one.

God came down from heaven multiple times in the Old Testament to enact judgement.

That is not proof of who the restrainer is

Strawman argument. I have not attempted to prove the identity of the restrainer or man of sin.

you are missing the main point
we are living in a time where the climax of Jesus against satan is soon to happen - it is a spiritual war between satan and Jesus and we know that Jesus wins , but the battle has not been finished yet - the battle between Jesus and satan ,

And you have missed the scriptural evidence:

1.) The man of sin was being restrained 'now' in paul's day. That means he existed in Paul’s day

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And you know what is restraining him NOW so that he may be revealed in his time.

2.) the temple was still standing

Any attempts to make this about the future must overcome the fact that paul doesn't mention the destruction of the then standing temple, followed by 2000 years, then a rebuilt '3rd' temple for which then falling away will occur and then the man of sin, now 2000 years old as well, is revealed.

the climax of Jesus against satan is soon to happen -

The apostles also believe they were living in the last days (acts 2:16-17), at the end of the age (1 corinthians 10:11), and that it was last hour (1 John 2:18). So who should I believe, them, or you?

The one who is being restrained is satan , not just some human

Scripture does not say the man of sin is Satan. If the man of sin was Satan, Paul could have just said so. Just as Judas Iscariot ( son of perdition) was a man, influenced by Satan, so to is the man of sin. Unless you can provide scripture that the man of sin is identified as Satan, your argument is groundless and speculative.

satan will be released onto the world scene and he does not care about anything except preventing people from accepting Jesus , he does not care about money , greed and that kind of thing , as the scripture says plainly when satan is released -as in being restricted from the throne of God where he accuses the brethren if sin - he is cast down to earth and knows he has only a short time - literally only a few years before he is cast into prison - that is why he is angry with wrath -

According to revelation, Satan is not destroyed at the start of the 1000 year reign. He is destroyed after the 1000 year reign.

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison
Revelation 20:7 - Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20:7 - English Standard Version

So in order for Satan to be the man of sin that is destroyed at Christ’s coming, Jesus would have to return after the 1000 year reign.

Not relevant , might as well talk about how mankind was created

It’s absolutely relevant. We are talking about Jesus personally destroying the man of sin at his coming. We should always rely on the language of the Old Testament. Specifically in the Old Testament, God came down from heaven multiple times to personally judge and destroy his enemies.

I never said anything about dispensationalism -

You said theology, which includes pre mil, post mil, mail, partial preterist, full preterist, etc....

Your statement basically reads Gods word trumps all those theologies.

 

[BABerean2]

But it also shows that this will happen after He returns, not before.

Since Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking "vengeance" on those who do not know God and obey the Gospel in the passage below, how can their conversion occur at or after the Second Coming?

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


.

 

[claninja]

This is really simple - just stop disregarding the questions Jesus answered which is " what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

it’s important to realize that the disciples believed and taught they were living in the last days (acts 2:16-17), at the end of the age (1 Corinthians 10:11), and that it was the last hour (1 John 2:18).

when you are willing to show the dates - the year and the month and the day that Jesus had returned from heaven

No man knows the day or hour. But we do know that it would be associated with the temple destruction, specifically, the one standing during their time. Historically speaking, this was late summer to early fall of 70ad.

But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Matthew 24:2 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:2 - English Standard Version

when you can show the dates of when this verse happened -
"30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"

According to Matthew 24:29, immediately after the tribulation associated with the destruction and seiging of Jerusalem. So roughly again, around late August to mid October of 70ad. If even you believe this is not the ‘2nd’ coming’, it's still obviously Christ coming in judgement.

Can we date when God came down from heaven to defeat David’s enemies and saul (2 Samuel 22:1,10-11)? Not specifically, but we know it was during the time of David.

Jesus is saying the generation that sees these things happen - so IF the generation was the people standing in front of him when he said it - then you should be able to show when these things happened

If you cannot show when these things happened then you should be willing to acknowledge that Jesus was talking about the generation that does see these things happen and This generation will be the generation that sees Jesus coming and the end of the age

And if you can acknowledge that the disciples generation did see wars, false messiahs, persecution, earthquakes, famines, pestilence, and the siege of Jerusalem followed by the temples destruction, then you should be able to acknowledge that Jesus was in fact talking to them as THIS generation.

 

[parousia70]

To prove this:

In Romans 11:28-32: it does say some Jews will receive God's mercy, despite their continued rejection of Jesus.

You Cite this:

..... I will have pity on them [Judah] and bring them back to their Land, IF they learn the ways of My People, [Christians] and swear allegiance to My Name.

How does one "continue in their rejection of Jesus" while simultaneously "swearing allegiance to His name?

 

[parousia70]

it’s important to realize that the disciples believed and taught they were living in the last days (acts 2:16-17), at the end of the age (1 Corinthians 10:11), and that it was the last hour (1 John 2:18).

Many folks here don't seem to care about that, some even go so far as to say the disciples were mistaken about this, and in turn, taught this error to their flocks.
If this is the case, that they were in total error about something as important as the TIMING, one has to wonder what other errors did they believe and teach?
Did they believe and teach error about the Resurrection?
Did they believe and teach error about Baptism?
Did they believe and teach error about Salvation?
Did they believe and teach error about Grace through Faith?

How can we know for sure?
If we allow the apostles to be in error on one point, we must allow for the likelihood that they also erred on several (if not all) other points.

No man knows the day or hour. But we do know that it would be associated with the temple destruction, specifically, the one standing during their time. Historically speaking, this was late summer to early fall of 70ad.

Interesting to note that, prior to Jerusalems AD70 Destruction, no one knew the day or hour it would happen... not even Jesus.

And if you can acknowledge that the disciples generation did see wars, false messiahs, persecution, earthquakes, famines, pestilence, and the siege of Jerusalem followed by the temples destruction, then you should be able to acknowledge that Jesus was in fact talking to them as THIS generation.

For anyone having trouble acknowledging that, here is a quick overview:

False messianic movements-- Dositheus the Samaritan, Simon Magus deified in Rome, Theudas (Acts 5:36-37), Manahem and, under the government of Felix, "deceivers rose up daily in Judea, and persuaded the people to follow them into the wilderness, assuring them that they should there behold conspicuous signs and wonders performed by the ALMIGHTY" (Josephus). Felix, from time to time, apprehended many and put them to death. About this period (A.D. 55) arose another Felix, the celebrated Egyptian impostor, who collected thirty-thousand followers, and persuaded them to accompany him to the Mount of Olives, telling, them that from thence they should see the walls of Jerusalem fall down at his command as a prelude to the capture of the Roman garrison, and to their obtaining the sovereignty of the city. Partial list: Judas, son of Hezekiah (4 BCE); Simon of Peraea (4 BCE); Athronges, the shepherd (4 BCE); Judas, the Galilean (6 CE); The Samaritan prophet (36 CE); King Herod Agrippa (44 CE); Theudas (? CE); The Egyptian prophet (52-58 CE); Menahem, the son of Judas the Galilean (66 CE); John of Gischala (67-70 CE); Vespasian (67 CE); Simon bar Giora (69-70 CE)

WARS -- Claudius' Roman war with Britain/East Anglia, at least three Jewish insurrections against Rome prior to the 60s AD -- one was violently put down by Cuspius Fadus. The Jewish/Alexandrian revolt upon Caligula's death, Claudius' martial law declared in Palestine after the jewish insurrection at the death of Agrippa I. The Germanic tribes in present-day Belgium and Germany made perpetual trouble for the legions throughout the reign. A smouldering Balkan war was in continuous progress. All this, of course only escalated, and Rome in 68-70 began its own Civil Wars that nearly toppled the empire. As Tacitus wrote, " Four princes [Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Domitian] killed by the sword; three civil wars, several foreign wars; and mostly raging at the same time. Favorable events in the East [the subjection of the Jews], unfortunate ones in the West. Illyria disturbed, Gaul uneasy; Britain conquered and soon relinquished; the nations of Sarmatia and Suevia rising against us; the Parthians excited by the deception of a pseudo-Nero."

FAMINES/PESTILENCE -- Acts 11:28 records the worldwide famine. Josephus reports the famine in Jerusalem in the 60s AD which killed hundreds of thousands during the Jewish War (AD 66-70). Accounts of infanticide and cannibalism as foretold in Deuteronomy 28:53,57 -- women cooked and ate their babies (Josephus; Wars 6:3:3-4; Wars 5:1:4). Read more on wars of this time and false prophets -- (Josephus: Antiq. 20:5:1-4; 20:8:5-10; Wars 2:10:1; 2:13:4-7; 6:5:2)

PERSECUTION -- Persecution of the early church by the Jews and later by Nero as he blames the Christian sect for the burning of Rome. This went on the entire AD 30-66 by the Jews, and Nero's persecution was 3.5 years from 64-68AD. Matthew 24:9-13 is exactly parallel to Matthew 10:16-23 which all scholars assign to a 1st century fulfillment. Also the Jewish Civil War occurred in 66-69AD (Josephus; Wars, 2:17:1-10; 2:18:1-11; 4:6:2-3; 5:1:2-5; 5:6:1; 5:13:6; 6:2:1)

 

[jgr]

I have cited a scripture that explicitly says what I pointed out. You have cited over a dozen scriptures that speak of another subject, not a single one of which even addresses the question at hand.

The Scriptures I cited demonstrate unequivocally that God's gifts and calling are reserved exclusively for His Elect Chosen People of faith and obedience -- His Church. There is not one that could be said to be applicable to "enemies of the gospel".

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

But that is beside the point. You are completely wrong about the election and the elect. These terms do not refer just to those that have already repented, but also to those that God has chosen. In addition to scripture's use of this term in the way you mentioned, is also used of angels, and of the true Israel.

God's choice always requires a response of faith and obedience. God chose King Saul, but he disobeyed and ultimately suffered a tragic end. God chose Samson, but he squandered that choice, and ultimately met an ignominious fate. Jesus chose Judas, but he refused to repent, and ultimately suffered the most tragic fate of both body and soul described in Scripture.

God chose Paul. He did respond in faith and obedience. As a result, the Church is forever the beneficiary, of God's choice and Paul's response.

Faith and obedience are never optional.

 

[keras]

How does one "continue in their rejection of Jesus" while simultaneously "swearing allegiance to His name?

Of the Jews who now continue in their rejection of Jesus, a remnant will repent and will swear allegiance to Jesus. After the forthcoming fire Judgement; Isaiah 4:3-4
Why do I need to point out this simple sequence?

On that Day the plant that the Lord has grown will become glorious in beauty and the fruit of the Land will be the pride and splendor of the survivors of Israel. Isaiah 4:2

 

[keras]

Since Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking "vengeance" on those who do not know God and obey the Gospel in the passage below, how can their conversion occur at or after the Second Coming?

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 is not about the glorious Return, it is another prophecy about the Lord's Day of wrath; the Sixth Seal.
Proved by how the Lord is revealed only to His people. As in Revelation 14:1

 

[BABerean2]

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 is not about the glorious Return, it is another prophecy about the Lord's Day of wrath; the Sixth Seal.
Proved by how the Lord is revealed only to His people. As in Revelation 14:1

It happens on the same day.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



.

 

[keras]

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; .

Revelation 20:11-15 makes it quite clear when the Judgement of the living and the dead occurs.
There is nothing in Revelation 19:11-21, Matthew 24:30-31, Zechariah 14:3; all prophesies about the Return, that says Jesus will judge all peoples then.
in Matthew 25:31-32, He separates the living peoples into 2 groups.

2 Timothy 4:1 Before God and before Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, I charge you solemnly by His coming appearance and His reign; RE Bible
This scripture does NOT say Jesus will Judge everyone at His Return, that idea is wrong; the GWT Judgement is at the end of the Millennium and only then is the Book of Life opened and immortality conferred on those whose names are found in the Book.

 

[BABerean2]

Revelation 20:11-15 makes it quite clear when the Judgement of the living and the dead occurs.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.



Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[seventysevens]

Paul states the man of sin is going to be on the world stage and the world will know his name?

But just not in his lifetime as Paul is the one who says that Jesus will destroy the man of lawlessness and Paul taught that Jesus return to earth will be in the future and not his lifetime

Again, I view scripture with a preterist lens, so I'm not refusing anything. I literally believe Jesus personally destroyed the man of sin just as God personally destroyed his enemies in the Old Testament because Jesus and the Father are one.

you can believe what you want but there is no scripture that says that Jesus has returned from heaven back to earth and only when Jesus returns from heaven to earth is the time when Jesus destroys the man of lawlessness , making assumptions that it has already happened without exact evidence is not a wise thing

1.) The man of sin was being restrained 'now' in paul's day. That means he existed in Paul’s day

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And you know what is restraining him NOW so that he may be revealed in his time.

2.) the temple was still standing

Any attempts to make this about the future must overcome the fact that paul doesn't mention the destruction of the then standing temple, followed by 2000 years, then a rebuilt '3rd' temple for which then falling away will occur and then the man of sin, now 2000 years old as well, is revealed.

The simple fact that you do not understand that Jesus return to earth has Nothing at all whatsoever to do with the temple in 70 AD being destroyed , you don't understand - Noticing that the only thing that is ever talked about is the temple that was destroyed and your refusal to acknowledge that Gods Word speaks of another temple - and you do not acknowledge the events that focus on Jesus return and that is why you fail to understand this - in the preterist and amil view Everything is centered on focused on the temple that was destroyed and disregarding everything else regarding Jesus return

Scripture does not say the man of sin is Satan. If the man of sin was Satan, Paul could have just said so. Just as Judas Iscariot ( son of perdition) was a man, influenced by Satan, so to is the man of sin. Unless you can provide scripture that the man of sin is identified as Satan, your argument is groundless and speculative.
According to revelation, Satan is not destroyed at the start of the 1000 year reign. He is destroyed after the 1000 year reign.

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison
Revelation 20:7 - Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20:7 - English Standard Version

So in order for Satan to be the man of sin that is destroyed at Christ’s coming, Jesus would have to return after the 1000 year reign.

Satanic Power indwells the man of lawlessness it is very very clear in scripture - yet you choose to ignore it altogether ,
when Jesus returns he destroys the man of lawlessness by casting him into the lake of fire , and at that time satan is cast into the abyss where he is imprisoned for 1000 years , just as scripture plainly says

You said theology, which includes pre mil, post mil, mail, partial preterist, full preterist, etc....

Your statement basically reads Gods word trumps all those theologies.

Of Course Gods Word Trumps them all , Seriously ?? you did not know this ? Theology is just mans Interpretation of Gods Word , just as denominations are started by men and Not God - they start because someone will have a different view of the same Word of God , the thing is some of them apply a preferred view and then teach it even when scripture does not say it - such as saying there will not be a another temple after the temple in 70 AD was destroyed . That is a false statement as Gods Word say outright there will be another temple - in fact 2 more , but solely because of the preterist and amil view there are people who refuse to accept Gods Word because it defies their theology- then when it is shown in scripture the folly increases to find some way of saying it will not happen that always fails

 

[seventysevens]

No man knows the day or hour. But we do know that it would be associated with the temple destruction, specifically, the one standing during their time. Historically speaking, this was late summer to early fall of 70ad.

But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
Matthew 24:2 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:2 - English Standard Version



According to Matthew 24:29, immediately after the tribulation associated with the destruction and seiging of Jerusalem. So roughly again, around late August to mid October of 70ad. If even you believe this is not the ‘2nd’ coming’, it's still obviously Christ coming in judgement.

Can we date when God came down from heaven to defeat David’s enemies and saul (2 Samuel 22:1,10-11)? Not specifically, but we know it was during the time of David.



And if you can acknowledge that the disciples generation did see wars, false messiahs, persecution, earthquakes, famines, pestilence, and the siege of Jerusalem followed by the temples destruction, then you should be able to acknowledge that Jesus was in fact talking to them as THIS generation.

There is so much error here it would take 2 days to fix it
Every scripture of the many many many many scriptures that speak of Jesus return to earth states Clearly that Jesus will remain on earth after he comes , he establishes HIS Kingdom on earth - that Has not happened yet - AND IT HAS nothing at all to do with the temple in 70 AD -

simple analogy- someone asks you " When are you going to paint the house, are you coming to grandmas house for dinner this Christmas , what time will you come if you come ? "

3 questions in one sentence - but painting the house has nothing at all to do with going to grandma's house for dinner

just as Jesus spoke of the temple that will be destroyed - then his topic changed to address the other 2 questions - the temple being destroyed in 70 AD has as much to do with Jesus return to earth as painting the house has to do with going to grandmas house as they are entirely different topics - and Jesus said outright that when he does return that EVERY EYE shall see him return - IF he had returned in the time of 70 AD or at any time at all there would be some form of verifiable evidence of it happening - it has not happened yet which is why there is no evidence of it happening - repeatedly you disregard all the things that Jesus said would happen that leads to his return
but yet again you focus on the temple of 70 AD - EVERYTHING in the preterist view seems to hinge exclusively on that temple that has NOTHING to do with Jesus return

you have no proof , no real evidence that supports that idea , Example is an analogy - if you take a job that pays $1000 per week - you fully expect $1000 per week , if you get $ 800 you gonna complain that you did not get what was agreed upon - Prophecy is the same it MUST BE EXACT - not similar - not something you say is "close enough " as that is what you are saying - Prophets of OT HAD to be 100% accurate - Not just close enough - they could be killed for being a false prophet if what they prophecy did not come true 100% exactly as given -
Jesus held to this same standard all through his life even though he could have changed anything and everything but he would teach " As it is Written" the scriptures Must be fulfilled 100% exactly as written. When the zealot Peter cut off the guards ear Jesus exclaimed NO , don't you realize I could call legions of angels ?
Jesus was always holding to how the prophetic scriptures had to be fulfilled 100% exactly as written - not just approximately close enough as preterist/amil view teaches

 

[jgr]

Yes

No.

The end time scenario in the scriptures very clearly depicts Judah (the Jews) in the land when it all begins, but there in a state of rebellion and unbelief. Then it depicts them being put through God's severe discipline, in which two thirds of them will be killed. It distinctly shows that this discipline will work, and that the remnant will turn back to himself. But it also shows that this will happen after He returns, not before.

A “discipline” which liquidates 2/3 of those being disciplined without opportunity for them to repent can scarcely be characterized as discipline.

Zechariah 13:7 has already been fulfilled. Jesus cites it in Matthew 26:31 in fulfillment of His trial and crucifixion, and His disciples' abandonment.

There is historical evidence of the fulfillment of Zechariah 13:8 in the destruction of Jerusalem and Judea in 70 AD.

With the Abrahamic genome ubiquitous in the human planetary population, if Zechariah 13:8 is yet future, the death toll will be 2/3 of most of the earth's population at that time, the result being billions dead. Are the surviving 1/3 going to be responsible for cleaning up before the conjectured millennium?

Since all Jews through history, e.g. the house of David, will be present in the land, this number will include Judas and all of those responsible for Christ's death. Can we be assured that all of these will be among the 2/3 liquidated? If not, we'll be meeting them in heaven. What will be God's “liquidation criteria”?

The New Testament descriptions of the advance of history to its culmination make no mention of a futurized Zechariah carnage. Instead, history will unfold as it is now, with wheat and tares, believer and unbeliever, continuing together to the final judgment.

There will be no second chances or other opportunities for anyone to repent after Christ's appearance at the last trumpet.

 

[Biblewriter]

The Scriptures I cited demonstrate unequivocally that God's gifts and calling are reserved exclusively for His Elect Chosen People of faith and obedience -- His Church. There is not one that could be said to be applicable to "enemies of the gospel".

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:



God's choice always requires a response of faith and obedience. God chose King Saul, but he disobeyed and ultimately suffered a tragic end. God chose Samson, but he squandered that choice, and ultimately met an ignominious fate. Jesus chose Judas, but he refused to repent, and ultimately suffered the most tragic fate of both body and soul described in Scripture.

God chose Paul. He did respond in faith and obedience. As a result, the Church is forever the beneficiary, of God's choice and Paul's response.

Faith and obedience are never optional.

I quoted a scripture that explicitly says exactly what I pointed out. And you simply refuse to believe what it explicitly says. End of story. I am not going to continue this childish argument.