What think ye of Ezekiel's Temple?

[seventysevens]

This is a debate and discussion. Posts can be as little or long as the writer intends them to be.

LOL , you fail at the common rational sense of the elementary and thoughtful consideration -
yea you can post miles and miles of posts , spend all day doing it if it pleases you - but you fail to recognize you just talking to yourself because if you have not the common courtesy to stay on the same page , you lose and I lose interest in conversation with someone that shows they only care about what they themself believe - You can believe falsehoods all day every day- it matters not to me , but if you want me to respond with proof that shows your error , you will show enough sense to know I won't waste time reading all your posts with any interest when you will not show good sense in how you do it
If you made a really long post addressing 1 or 2 questions that is OK , but you take a sentence and make 6 questions of it or make 10 really long posts and rarely if ever have any proof as you only have opinions and you refuse to acknowledge most of the bible scriptures if they do not fit your preferred view.
If someone say 'lets take a walk ' and you see they are running and you are walking , there is no point in accepting an invitation that ends up like that - I have a lot of things to do in life , whereas some people spend all their life on an internet forum - at the end of the day situations like this are not enjoyable , I have noticed that many of the good conversationalists rarely post anymore ,

 

[claninja]

LOL , you fail at the common rational sense of the elementary and thoughtful consideration -
yea you can post miles and miles of posts , spend all day doing it if it pleases you - but you fail to recognize you just talking to yourself because if you have not the common courtesy to stay on the same page , you lose and I lose interest in conversation with someone that shows they only care about what they themself believe - You can believe falsehoods all day every day- it matters not to me , but if you want me to respond with proof that shows your error , you will show enough sense to know I won't waste time reading all your posts with any interest when you will not show good sense in how you do it
If you made a really long post addressing 1 or 2 questions that is OK , but you take a sentence and make 6 questions of it or make 10 really long posts and rarely if ever have any proof as you only have opinions and you refuse to acknowledge most of the bible scriptures if they do not fit your preferred view.
If someone say 'lets take a walk ' and you see they are running and you are walking , there is no point in accepting an invitation that ends up like that - I have a lot of things to do in life , whereas some people spend all their life on an internet forum - at the end of the day situations like this are not enjoyable , I have noticed that many of the good conversationalists rarely post anymore ,

Ok seventysevens.......

 

[gomerian]

I think there's a magnificent copy of Ezekiel's Temple, sitting in Toledo called Alcazar. Some say that it was built ca. 700 B.C.
Wonder who built it.

Toledo: From the Depths of Idyllic Past

 

[ebedmelech]

As already said you have your personal interpretation , but upon close evaluation it simply fails to be supported by scripture - Jesus did not destroy the temple and he did not give any command to destroy the temple in 70 AD , Matt 24 , Mark 13 etc have not yet happened in regards to Jesus return and judgment upon the world -

Hmmm...this is what Jesus clearly said in Matthew 24:1-2:

Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

Do you deny that happened in 70 AD?

Regarding the temple that was destroyed - Jesus simply gave a prophecy stating that particular temple would be destroyed - there is no evidence in writing or physical that says Jesus returned or destroyed the temple in 70 AD - that notion is entirely based on your incorrect interpretation - simply how you choose to interpret it -

you obviously do not understand why Jesus will return and what he will do when he does as it will be far far more than just judging those wicked people - If you cannot find scripture that state outright that Jesus will establish HIS Kingdom on earth then you have not read the bible as it is there in several places
You should read it - if you do not know where to look just ask google and it will show many scriptures for you to study - it can be your gps to find scripture - then you can find them in your own bible

This is your failure of understanding what Jesus said. He said it at Matthew 24:29-30:
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

This is where you miss it! Jesus coming to destroy the temple was a SIGN of His coming in judgment of Jerusalem. It was not His physical return. This is why it says "the Son of man will come on the clouds"...typical judgement language of scripture that you fail to understand.

As for when Jesus comes...it's simple:

1. The dead in Christ will rise first.
2. Living believers at that time will be caught up to meet Him in the air which immediately separates belivers from the lost.
3. Judgment occurs.
4. Jesus makes all things new.

That's what it is. Perhaps one day...you'll understand.

 

[ebedmelech]

Isn't it kind of obvious that those days have not come yet?
We await the rejoining of Judah and Israel, as described in Ezekiel 37. That has NOT happened yet.

Surely you aren't serious Keras?

 

[seventysevens]

Hmmm...this is what Jesus clearly said in Matthew 24:1-2:

Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

Do you deny that happened in 70 AD?

Yes the temple was destroyed - but not by Jesus as he was long gone ascended up into heaven in 70 AD for nearly 40 years he had been in heaven -
Romans destroyed the temple , not Jesus - Jesus simply told about what would happen to the temple and there is no wording whatsoever that says Jesus destroyed the temple

using your understanding would mean that when the prophets said something would happen , then when it happened it was done by the prophet that spoke about it- what you are suggesting is not only invalid but it makes no sense either , as there were many people who witnessed the Romans destroying the temple
You may as well say that when scientists predict a volcano is going to erupt and destroy buildings with lava it is the scientists that are responsible for the volcano erupting - There are no scriptures that say Jesus destroyed the temple , if there were it would be known - but you are just forcing your view onto scripture thinking it says something entirely different than what is there

This is your failure of understanding what Jesus said. He said it at Matthew 24:29-30:
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

This is where you miss it! Jesus coming to destroy the temple was a SIGN of His coming in judgment of Jerusalem. It was not His physical return. This is why it says "the Son of man will come on the clouds"...typical judgement language of scripture that you fail to understand.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Using the same chapter with the verse you choose to leave out - shows vividly that WHEN Jesus comes it will be visible from the east to the west
Surely you do not realize just how ridiculous what you are saying really is ?
You're saying that Jesus has come and destroyed the temple , but that he has not come in a physical return - ?
You're saying Jesus came in some invisible cloaked fashion so that no one would know he has come ?
That be the opposite of what the scripture actually says

You're making unsupported assumption that Jesus had anything to do with destroying the temple and going off the deep end by suggesting that Jesus has come , invisibly to destroy the temple , that is really funny and sad that you really believe that , there is no reason for Jesus to come invisibly to destroy anything
If Jesus had any involvement in that temple, scripture would have made it as clear as it was made with Sodom and Gomorrah

this verse
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

speaks directly of Jesus physical return , when he returns everyone on earth will see him coming down from heaven on the clouds , as it says they shall see him and they mourn as they see him come to earth as they will know it is judgment day(not the great white throne judgment) for all who have rejected him

 

[keras]

Surely you aren't serious Keras?

I repeat: The rejoining of Judah and Israel has not happened yet.
I also repeat: A simple reading of Ezekiel 37 proves it, as the Blessings promised await fulfilment.

And the new Temple as described by Ezekiel, is also in the future.
People who deny these things, are opposing God's will with their puny opinion.

 

[BABerean2]

I repeat: The rejoining of Judah and Israel has not happened yet.

Either James is confused in the passage below, or you are confused in your statement above.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

 

[claninja]

es the temple was destroyed - but not by Jesus as he was long gone ascended up into heaven in 70 AD for nearly 40 years he had been in heaven -
Romans destroyed the temple , not Jesus - Jesus simply told about what would happen to the temple and there is no wording whatsoever that says Jesus destroyed the temple

Who came to destroy the wicked tenants for killing his servants and son?

Matthew 21:40-41,43,45 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time. “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them.

Who sent an army to burn the city and destroy the original wedding guests for killing his servants?

Matthew 22:6-7 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

using your understanding would mean that when the prophets said something would happen , then when it happened it was done by the prophet that spoke about it- what you are suggesting is not only invalid but it makes no sense either , as there were many people who witnessed the Romans destroying the temple
You may as well say that when scientists predict a volcano is going to erupt and destroy buildings with lava it is the scientists that are responsible for the volcano erupting - There are no scriptures that say Jesus destroyed the temple , if there were it would be known - but you are just forcing your view onto scripture thinking it says something entirely different than what is there

Is Jesus God? If Jesus is God, then when Jesus predicts the destruction of Jerusalem, it is by his hand that it is destroyed.

Babylon was God's weapon to destroy the nations. Babylon was the hammer used by God that destroyed the 1st temple and sent Judah into exile.

Jeremiah 51:20 You are my hammer and weapon of war: with you I break nations in pieces;
with you I destroy kingdoms;

So to were the armies of Rome God's weapon to destroy the 2nd temple and its people.

this verse
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
speaks directly of Jesus physical return , when he returns everyone on earth will see him coming down from heaven on the clouds , as it says they shall see him and they mourn as they see him come to earth as they will know it is judgment day(not the great white throne judgment) for all who have rejected him

1.) the greek words for tribe of the earth in Matthew 24:30, are the same greek words used for tribes and land in zechariah 12 in the septuigant, which is the prophecy that Jesus is drawing from. Specifically in Zechariah, the tribes of the land is about Israel.

2.) The greek word for 'see' in matthew 24:30, can be translated as spiritual sight or understanding.

3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).

3.) The 'coming of the son of man on the clouds' is not necessarily a world wide visible event, as Jesus tells the the pharisees they will NOW see him coming on the clouds.

Matthew 26:64-65 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: FROM NOW ON you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”e Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.

So what does it mean when Jesus says he is 'coming on the clouds'? it means he is calling himself God. Hence the high priest says blasphemy when Jesus says this. God is the one who came on the clouds in the Old testament.

**when the SIGN of the son of man appears in the sky, all the tribes of the land (of Israel) will mourn when they understand that Jesus is God. *[/QUOTE]

 

[seventysevens]

Who came to destroy the wicked tenants for killing his servants and son?

Matthew 21:40-41,43,45 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time. “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew he was talking about them.

Who sent an army to burn the city and destroy the original wedding guests for killing his servants?

Matthew 22:6-7 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.



Is Jesus God? If Jesus is God, then when Jesus predicts the destruction of Jerusalem, it is by his hand that it is destroyed.

Babylon was God's weapon to destroy the nations. Babylon was the hammer used by God that destroyed the 1st temple and sent Judah into exile.

Jeremiah 51:20 You are my hammer and weapon of war: with you I break nations in pieces;
with you I destroy kingdoms;

So to were the armies of Rome God's weapon to destroy the 2nd temple and its people.



1.) the greek words for tribe of the earth in Matthew 24:30, are the same greek words used for tribes and land in zechariah 12 in the septuigant, which is the prophecy that Jesus is drawing from. Specifically in Zechariah, the tribes of the land is about Israel.

2.) The greek word for 'see' in matthew 24:30, can be translated as spiritual sight or understanding.

3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).

3.) The 'coming of the son of man on the clouds' is not necessarily a world wide visible event, as Jesus tells the the pharisees they will NOW see him coming on the clouds.

Matthew 26:64-65 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: FROM NOW ON you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”e Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.

So what does it mean when Jesus says he is 'coming on the clouds'? it means he is calling himself God. Hence the high priest says blasphemy when Jesus says this. God is the one who came on the clouds in the Old testament.

**when the SIGN of the son of man appears in the sky, all the tribes of the land (of Israel) will mourn when they understand that Jesus is God. *

You're taking it to an even greater level of nonsense

Question: "What is biblical hermeneutics?"

Answer: Biblical hermeneutics is the study of the principles and methods of interpreting the text of the Bible. Second Timothy 2:15 commands believers to be involved in hermeneutics: “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who . . . correctly handles the word of truth.” The purpose of biblical hermeneutics is to help us to know how to properly interpret, understand, and apply the Bible.

The most important law of biblical hermeneutics is that the Bible should be interpreted literally. We are to understand the Bible in its normal or plain meaning, unless the passage is obviously intended to be symbolic or if figures of speech are employed. The Bible says what it means and means what it says. For example, when Jesus speaks of having fed “the five thousand” in Mark 8:19, the law of hermeneutics says we should understand five thousand literally—there was a crowd of hungry people that numbered five thousand who were fed with real bread and fish by a miracle-working Savior. Any attempt to “spiritualize” the number or to deny a literal miracle is to do injustice to the text and ignore the purpose of language, which is to communicate. Some interpreters make the mistake of trying to read between the lines of Scripture to come up with esoteric meanings that are not truly in the text, as if every passage has a hidden spiritual truth that we should seek to decrypt. Biblical hermeneutics keeps us faithful to the intended meaning of Scripture and away from allegorizing Bible verses that should be understood literally.

A second crucial law of biblical hermeneutics is that passages must be interpreted historically, grammatically, and contextually. Interpreting a passage historically means we must seek to understand the culture, background, and situation that prompted the text. For example, in order to fully understand Jonah’s flight in Jonah 1:1–3, we should research the history of the Assyrians as related to Israel. Interpreting a passage grammatically requires one to follow the rules of grammar and recognize the nuances of Hebrew and Greek. For example, when Paul writes of “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” in Titus 2:13, the rules of grammar state that God and Savior are parallel terms and they are both in apposition to Jesus Christ—in other words, Paul clearly calls Jesus “our great God.” Interpreting a passage contextually involves considering the context of a verse or passage when trying to determine the meaning. The context includes the verses immediately preceding and following, the chapter, the book, and, most broadly, the entire Bible. For example, many puzzling statements in Ecclesiastes become clearer when kept in context—the book of Ecclesiastes is written from the earthly perspective “under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 1:3). In fact, the phrase under the sun is repeated about thirty times in the book, establishing the context for all that is “vanity” in this world.

A third law of biblical hermeneutics is that Scripture is always the best interpreter of Scripture. For this reason, we always compare Scripture with Scripture when trying to determine the meaning of a passage. For example, Isaiah’s condemnation of Judah’s desire to seek Egypt’s help and their reliance on a strong cavalry (Isaiah 31:1) was motivated, in part, by God’s explicit command that His people not go to Egypt to seek horses (Deuteronomy 17:16).

Some people avoid studying biblical hermeneutics because they mistakenly believe it will limit their ability to learn new truths from God’s Word or stifle the Holy Spirit’s illumination of Scripture. But their fears are unfounded. Biblical hermeneutics is all about finding the correct interpretation of the inspired text. The purpose of biblical hermeneutics is to protect us from misapplying Scripture or allowing bias to color our understanding of truth. God’s Word is truth (John 17:17). We want to see the truth, know the truth, and live the truth as best we can, and that’s why biblical hermeneutics is vital.
gotquestions.org

It is safe to say that 99.999999% of the time when anyone receives mail they read it literally as it is written , as if a person was in front of them talking ,
Most people have good sense that when a person is talking to you that you do not interrupt them to tell them that they really mean something other than what they have said ,

it be very important to read what someone has said in PLAIN sense which is literally as it is written UNLESS there is noted by the author that it is an analogy or something else .

If you are married and the wife leaves a note or letter to you saying she will see you when she returns - it is literal not metaphorical - !!
Jesus physically ascended up into heaven as they watched him go up , the angels told them that Jesus will return just as he left - literally meaning a physical descent on the clouds just as he made a physical ascent up on the clouds

If you read the instructions on how to assemble a bed , you read it literally not metaphorically , the folly expressed here in your post is irrational twisting of scripture to make it say what you want it to say instead of accepting what it says as it is written , that is a failure on your part when you fail to understand the scripture
Rev 1:7
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him” and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.

Matt24
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the peoples of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

Both verses literally mean a physical coming on the clouds just as He ascended on the clouds

the most likely probable method that every eye shall see Jesus return is through telecommunications technology - being broadcast live as it happens on cable TV , on all cell phones and tablets , through wired and wireless internet utilizing all satellite cameras and the CCTV cameras all over the world as there are now 10's of millions of them and the numbers are growing rapidly

Jesus return will be the biggest news story the earth has ever had since it was created you really need to rethink that metaphorical nonsense , as that is really nonsense ,
That us nothing more than insisting your theology it overruling the Word of God which is why it fails so miserably

 

[Davy]

ok then.....

Maybe instead of calling people 'brainwashed' you could provide evidence for why 'this generation' means what you say it does. For example, is there any other scripture that uses generation or this generation in the way that you are interpreting it? After all debates and discussions are typically more fruitful when evidence is produced instead of name calling.

I should expect a song and dance with cane and hat from you next, since your imagination likes to blow up words you don't like, (like brainwashing).

Luke 1:50
50 And His mercy is on them that fear Him from generation to generation.
KJV

Is that to a generation of people like the people of Israel? No, it's pointing to generations living at different times, not about a specific genealogy. Likewise in Matthew 24 Jesus was pointing to a generation living at a specific time, the time of the very end of this world of those who will see His 2nd coming. Very simple for those still able to think for themselves.

 

[Davy]

It's not simply "the word generation"...but the fact that Jesus said "THIS generation" He didn't say "that generation". Furthermore Jesus used the personal pronoun "you" so He's tell those whom He's speaking to, that they would see those things.

Instead of wanting to apply a sole meaning of a race to the word 'generation' from the Greek, you might want to educate yourself more and look at the meaning the word 'generation' (genea) can have.

NT:1074
genea (ghen-eh-ah'); from (a presumed derivative of) NT:1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):

KJV - age, generation, nation, time.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

What makes the meaning of the word "generation" in Matt.24:34 to be a generation of time, is how Jesus used it. He used it to point to a specific timing, the time at the very end of this world when He will return, as the specific subject at that point were the signs with the last one being the sign of His 2nd coming. In all of God's Word, there is no other time shown for His return than the very end of this present world.

No. God's word is never meaningless.

I never said God's Word is ever meaningless. That's some idea you've made up, didn't come from me.

2 Thessalonians was written to the church at Thessalonica...it says so in the first verse of the first chapter. It's written for us...not to us...and we learn from it...even today because His word is sure!

And the events Paul warned them of still apply to Christ's Church today, because 2 Thess.2 is not... the only Scripture about those coming events upon the world. They are given also symbolically in Christ's Revelation and in Jesus' Olivet Discourse.

You simply don't get what Paul is saying, so you think it's vain.

You're trying to twist my words. I never said what Paul said was vain.

I said the ideas you were pushing were vain.

Paul spoke of Jesus "coming" an the Lord did come except it was a judgement coming in which Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews scattered. Even Paul and Peter were martyred and both predicted their deaths. Paul knew to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and that's how he, Peter and many others were gathered to our Lord.

Paul spoke of Jesus' 2nd coming which also aligns with the timing the OT prophets showed and the examples the rest of Paul's Epistles give, i.e., at the very end of this present world.

 

[ebedmelech]

Yes the temple was destroyed - but not by Jesus as he was long gone ascended up into heaven in 70 AD for nearly 40 years he had been in heaven -
Romans destroyed the temple , not Jesus - Jesus simply told about what would happen to the temple and there is no wording whatsoever that says Jesus destroyed the temple

using your understanding would mean that when the prophets said something would happen , then when it happened it was done by the prophet that spoke about it- what you are suggesting is not only invalid but it makes no sense either , as there were many people who witnessed the Romans destroying the temple
You may as well say that when scientists predict a volcano is going to erupt and destroy buildings with lava it is the scientists that are responsible for the volcano erupting - There are no scriptures that say Jesus destroyed the temple , if there were it would be known - but you are just forcing your view onto scripture thinking it says something entirely different than what is there


26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Using the same chapter with the verse you choose to leave out - shows vividly that WHEN Jesus comes it will be visible from the east to the west
Surely you do not realize just how ridiculous what you are saying really is ?
You're saying that Jesus has come and destroyed the temple , but that he has not come in a physical return - ?
You're saying Jesus came in some invisible cloaked fashion so that no one would know he has come ?
That be the opposite of what the scripture actually says

You're making unsupported assumption that Jesus had anything to do with destroying the temple and going off the deep end by suggesting that Jesus has come , invisibly to destroy the temple , that is really funny and sad that you really believe that , there is no reason for Jesus to come invisibly to destroy anything
If Jesus had any involvement in that temple, scripture would have made it as clear as it was made with Sodom and Gomorrah

this verse
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

speaks directly of Jesus physical return , when he returns everyone on earth will see him coming down from heaven on the clouds , as it says they shall see him and they mourn as they see him come to earth as they will know it is judgment day(not the great white throne judgment) for all who have rejected him

Like I said...we've done this before Seventysevens. If either of us are physically alive when the Lord returns, we'll know even as we are known.

A person must be persuaded in their own mind.

 

[gomerian]

As for when Jesus comes...it's simple:

1. The dead in Christ will rise first.

What do "dead in christ" look like?

 

[keras]

Either James is confused in the passage below, or you are confused in your statement above.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience..

This scripture and 1 Peter 1:1, in no way prove your contention that the House of Judah had at that time rejoined with the House of Israel.
The Apostles knew they had not, as only Judah returned from Babylon 500 years ago. Josephus knew they had not, Rabbi Akiva, in the Middle ages; knew they had not and we today await this great Spiritual regeneration of both Houses, as Ezekiel 37 describes.

As the people of Judah only occupy a small portion of the holy Land, Genesis 15:18, and their numbers, [of true Jews, Romans 2:29] are far from the vast multitude of people from every tribe, race, nations and language; we still look forward to the Day the Lord will clear and cleanse His Land, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, and then settle all His faithful people there.

 

[BABerean2]

This scripture and 1 Peter 1:1, in no way prove your contention that the House of Judah had at that time rejoined with the House of Israel.
The Apostles knew they had not, as only Judah returned from Babylon 500 years ago. Josephus knew they had not, Rabbi Akiva, in the Middle ages; knew they had not and we today await this great Spiritual regeneration of both Houses, as Ezekiel 37 describes.

As the people of Judah only occupy a small portion of the holy Land, Genesis 15:18, and their numbers, [of true Jews, Romans 2:29] are far from the vast multitude of people from every tribe, race, nations and language; we still look forward to the Day the Lord will clear and cleanse His Land, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, and then settle all His faithful people there.

You are trying to use a passage from the Old Testament to discount a later revelation from the half brother of Christ, found in the New Testament.

Who was James talking about in James 1:1, when he used the term "the twelve tribes"?

.

 

[ebedmelech]

What do "dead in christ" look like?

They look as they were before they died and were buried.

 

[ebedmelech]

Instead of wanting to apply a sole meaning of a race to the word 'generation' from the Greek, you might want to educate yourself more and look at the meaning the word 'generation' (genea) can have.

NT:1074
genea (ghen-eh-ah'); from (a presumed derivative of) NT:1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):

KJV - age, generation, nation, time.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

What makes the meaning of the word "generation" in Matt.24:34 to be a generation of time, is how Jesus used it. He used it to point to a specific timing, the time at the very end of this world when He will return, as the specific subject at that point were the signs with the last one being the sign of His 2nd coming. In all of God's Word, there is no other time shown for His return than the very end of this present world.

It's good that you do word study…but notice I focused on the pronoun before the word.

Jesus said “THIS generation”…He did not say “THE generation” or “THAT generation”. “THIS” means present…not future…so it applies to the present generation.

To say the timing is specific is equally accurate…BUT to miss who Jesus is speaking to in this discourse is to miss who it applies to.

Take a look at Mark 13:3-5 says:

3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew were questioning Him privately,
4 “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?”
5 And Jesus began to say to them, “See to it that no one misleads you…

So we have Jesus speaking PRIVATELY to Peter, James, John, and Andrew . They are who Jesus is addressing this to. It was very much future to them…but it is the past to us.

*He told THEM “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

*He told THEM “see to it that no one misleads you”

*He told THEM they would be persecuted and killed

*He told THEM when YOU see the abomination of desolation…

For you to think this is written for you today is faulty reading of the text!!!

I never said God's Word is ever meaningless. That's some idea you've made up, didn't come from me.

You may have read what I said that way...but is not the basis of the debate the word of God...and did you not say may rebuttal makes Holy writ meaningless? However if I'm correct, (and I believe I am), then I do not render God's word meaningless.

And the events Paul warned them of still apply to Christ's Church today, because 2 Thess.2 is not... the only Scripture about those coming events upon the world. They are given also symbolically in Christ's Revelation and in Jesus' Olivet Discourse.

Once again no. Paul is answering a specific question to the the Church of Thessalonica not you today. Now…of course we can read that passage and know that in times of persecution we are to stand firm in the Lord based on the instruction this church was given.

You're trying to twist my words. I never said what Paul said was vain. I said the ideas you were pushing were vain.

I’m proving why they are not.

Paul spoke of Jesus' 2nd coming which also aligns with the timing the OT prophets showed and the examples the rest of Paul's Epistles give, i.e., at the very end of this present world.

Sure he did…but saints have to understand the OT prophets correctly as Paul did, because on several occasions Paul quotes the OT prophets to make the point. If one gets a prophecy wrong, error begets error.

 

[ebedmelech]

I repeat: The rejoining of Judah and Israel has not happened yet.
I also repeat: A simple reading of Ezekiel 37 proves it, as the Blessings promised await fulfilment.

And the new Temple as described by Ezekiel, is also in the future.
People who deny these things, are opposing God's will with their puny opinion.

What you're proving is your failure to understand Jeremiahs prophecy. The writer of Hebrews is telling you the prophecy is fulfilled and you're ignoring Herbews 8:1-7. That's really astounding!!!

 

[jgr]

A second crucial law of biblical hermeneutics is that passages must be interpreted historically, grammatically, and contextually.

True. And I don't see the word "futuristically".

The order is also significant. Begin with history. Then apply the rules of grammar. Then integrate the context.

That's a good law.