- Mar 11, 2018
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I am thinking that the 70 weeks of Daniel were not fulfilled with Jesus' ministry. This is the text:
Daniel 9: 24-27 - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
In bold, (above) is the part that I think was fulfilled. Looking at the text, it seems a bit obvious that not all of it was fulfilled, but requires the arrival of the kingdom.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.
One theory, is that the final 3 1/2 years was fulfilled up until the stoning of Steven. In contrast to the futurist interpretation, I think that the final part of the prophesy relates to Titus, and the Romans, and 70 AD. The he, who confirms the covenant was Jesus, cut off mid-week, and causing the sacrifice to cease.
But the idea, that the 70th week closes with the stoning of Steven, is a weak argument, and I think that perhaps this final 3 1/2 years is projected forward somehow.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
There would appear to be a tribulation associated with the return of Christ?
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
The tares are removed from the earth. The elect remain. Where is the tribulation, if the days were as in the days of Noah? The scenario is one of normality - things carrying on as usual.
Unless there is an error in the gathering of the information in Matthew 24. There can't be tribulation, and days of Noah at the same time.
Luke 21:
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
In Luke 21, there is no tribulation, rather trepidation - signs in the heavens. Perhaps Matthew 24 was talking about the great tribulation of 70 AD, and somehow the order of Jesus teachings got jumbled up.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
The worthy to escape? escape what? Luke 21 again:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Talking about 70 AD.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The fulfillment of the times of the Gentiles, might be the clue, that there is a break, and the prophesy continues about the last days...
This part of Matthew 24 is derived from the OT:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
I think it might have been a summary - Jesus quoting form the OT in regard to the day of the Lord - both 70 AD and the last days. What makes sense to me, is that there cannot be both a great tribulation of the last days, and the days of Noah, at the same time. So the great tribulation must be about 70 AD. The snare that ensnares everyone on the earth, (from Luke 21) is about the day of the Lord - and it is unexpected (a rabbit is caught by surprise).
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
It still doesn't solve the mystery of the 3 1/2 years. And what would be the point of a pre-trib rapture, if there is no tribulation to escape? What is probably meant, is that we need to be worthy to escape the removal of the tares, as in Matthew 13:
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.
The scenario is, that the tares are removed (by angels) from the kingdom, which must be the earth, as the tares would not be in heaven. Then the elect are gathered by angels - (Mark 13):
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
A gathering together of all the elect - from heaven and earth, to presumably some new heaven. The rapture would be at the close of the age, when the angels gather the elect, after the tares have been removed.
What about the final 3 1/2 weeks? This might be a period of persecution of the church for 3 1/2 years?
It might be that the church escapes for this final period - so many believe so. I don't see any hard evidence to exclude that possibility either. The final period would be a time of normality, but with trepidation - odd things occurring in the heavens.
Daniel 9: 24-27 - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
In bold, (above) is the part that I think was fulfilled. Looking at the text, it seems a bit obvious that not all of it was fulfilled, but requires the arrival of the kingdom.
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.
One theory, is that the final 3 1/2 years was fulfilled up until the stoning of Steven. In contrast to the futurist interpretation, I think that the final part of the prophesy relates to Titus, and the Romans, and 70 AD. The he, who confirms the covenant was Jesus, cut off mid-week, and causing the sacrifice to cease.
But the idea, that the 70th week closes with the stoning of Steven, is a weak argument, and I think that perhaps this final 3 1/2 years is projected forward somehow.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
There would appear to be a tribulation associated with the return of Christ?
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
The tares are removed from the earth. The elect remain. Where is the tribulation, if the days were as in the days of Noah? The scenario is one of normality - things carrying on as usual.
Unless there is an error in the gathering of the information in Matthew 24. There can't be tribulation, and days of Noah at the same time.
Luke 21:
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
In Luke 21, there is no tribulation, rather trepidation - signs in the heavens. Perhaps Matthew 24 was talking about the great tribulation of 70 AD, and somehow the order of Jesus teachings got jumbled up.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
The worthy to escape? escape what? Luke 21 again:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter there into.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Talking about 70 AD.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The fulfillment of the times of the Gentiles, might be the clue, that there is a break, and the prophesy continues about the last days...
This part of Matthew 24 is derived from the OT:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
I think it might have been a summary - Jesus quoting form the OT in regard to the day of the Lord - both 70 AD and the last days. What makes sense to me, is that there cannot be both a great tribulation of the last days, and the days of Noah, at the same time. So the great tribulation must be about 70 AD. The snare that ensnares everyone on the earth, (from Luke 21) is about the day of the Lord - and it is unexpected (a rabbit is caught by surprise).
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
It still doesn't solve the mystery of the 3 1/2 years. And what would be the point of a pre-trib rapture, if there is no tribulation to escape? What is probably meant, is that we need to be worthy to escape the removal of the tares, as in Matthew 13:
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.
The scenario is, that the tares are removed (by angels) from the kingdom, which must be the earth, as the tares would not be in heaven. Then the elect are gathered by angels - (Mark 13):
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
A gathering together of all the elect - from heaven and earth, to presumably some new heaven. The rapture would be at the close of the age, when the angels gather the elect, after the tares have been removed.
What about the final 3 1/2 weeks? This might be a period of persecution of the church for 3 1/2 years?
It might be that the church escapes for this final period - so many believe so. I don't see any hard evidence to exclude that possibility either. The final period would be a time of normality, but with trepidation - odd things occurring in the heavens.
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