A Day Without Sinning

[Bobber]

I'd suggest it's a lot more honorable to God to put the focus on one's capacity to overcome sin, and the nature of sin through the power of Christ, the glory of God, the resurrection power within us which is said to cause us to walk in newness of life Romans 6:4, Galatians 5:16 than to focus on the potential of failure if we choose to walk in the flesh and not the Spirit. Sadly saints do this which frankly I thinks brings sadness to the heart of the Savior.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Gal 5:16

 

[razzelflabben]

What does flaming mean?
Is that some kind of sexual word?

I have defined it in it's most simple terms and is a term used on the forum rules...it means to insight another to anger....it includes but is not limited to personal attacks on one's character and to the reinventing of what another poster says without accepting any corrections of misunderstanding that might have occured...it's really not that hard of a concept.

 

[razzelflabben]

When Paul says Walk in the Spirit.
Is walking in the Spirit a choice, or does it become the norm for the Believer?

personally I would have to answer both...it is a choice, yes, but the true believer is so in awe of God that it becomes the only choice he really can make.

Good question btw

 

[razzelflabben]

I think this thread contains a lot of misunderstandings. We are talking past one another - I think. The whole story is found in 1 John 1.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

If we are in Christ - we do not walk in continual willful sin. Period. If we act in that way, we need to seriously examine whether we are in the faith at all. Implied in the "fellowship with Him" is that it is the grace of God that empowers us to no longer walk in the sin we used to.

HOWEVER ....

8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Remember this is written to believers, not to unbelievers who are not in the faith. We DO sin, we continue to sin. If we say we have no sin - we lie to ourselves. This IS an ongoing state, which is why we need to continue to confess our sins, so that we can be continually cleansed.

We shouldn't go about robbing people at gunpoint. God has given us the power to overcome sin. But none of us are perfect, and completely free from sin (exactly like Christ yet), nor can we expect will will be during this life.

I think that is the major cause of misunderstanding?

Peace to all.

unfortunately some have to reinvent what others have said to make a point.

The problem I see with your post however is that you give us no understanding of whether or not that period of being without sin can be one or more consecutive days which seems to mean to some one or more consecutive days and to others it seems to mean for an entire lifetime....so from your standpoint and understanding, do you think the believer can be without sin for a period of one or more consecutive days?

 

[razzelflabben]

X



All of my sin is on the cross.....that is Good News for a wretched sinner like me who can’t go 5 minutes without sinning.Sin is in our DNA.We are not sinners because we sin—- we sin because we are sinners.Those who think they have somehow risen above it are deluded.I don’t know who they think they are fooling.If people knew me the way God does, they would want nothing to do with me.We all have secret thoughts that would shame Hell.The deluded are no different than me.We should admit the ugly truths about ourselves and thank God for His Amazing Grace and love. When we sin we should do the same thing with it that God does—- put it on the cross and leave it there.

when I believed unto salvation God began a work in me which involved me crucifying the flesh and having the sinful nature "circumsized" from my heart. But that good work also involves the renewing of my mind which means that the old sinful thoughts are constantly becoming replaced with righteous ones.

I know this transformation is taking place in a lot of ways but one such way is in my dreams when I am not even aware of what I am thinking and yet more and more I see righteousness coming through in my dreams that before would have had worldly evil tones.

 

[~Anastasia~]

unfortunately some have to reinvent what others have said to make a point.

The problem I see with your post however is that you give us no understanding of whether or not that period of being without sin can be one or more consecutive days which seems to mean to some one or more consecutive days and to others it seems to mean for an entire lifetime....so from your standpoint and understanding, do you think the believer can be without sin for a period of one or more consecutive days?

Somehow I don't think I want to get into a discussion that will just go round and round.

Which definition of sin? If we mean only that we don't hurt anyone intentionally, don't lie, don't steal, don't use foul language - then a person can go a very long time. When I was a child, and had the understanding of a child, and read that "all sinned" - I couldn't imagine my great-grandmother sinning. She was always in Church, always praying, lived a solitary life but in service and love. I never saw her sin in all the years she lived from the time I knew her.

But do we mean the absolute definition of sin? The barest hint of an un-Christlike attitude? The need to defend ourselves if we feel our rights have been stepped on or people think badly of us that has its root in pride? The failure to do every good thing we possibly know to do? The failure to love God at every moment with all of our heart, soul, strength, and mind? The least attitude of dissatisfaction and wishing for something we don't have? Or thousands of other common potential shortcomings that display that we are not yet exactly like Christ? I doubt very many people can go very many minutes without such sin.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I will say this - many people define sin as "transgression of the law" and so they assume they can easily avoid sin with the help of God. We can indeeed avoid transgressing the law.

But that is not the scriptural meaning of sin. Sin - hamartia - is "missing the mark" - like an archer aiming at the perfect center of the target. It doesn't matter if his arrow missed the target entirely (transgression of the law) or hits even within the inner circle - yet still not the perfect center - if he was aiming for the perfect center.

Our "mark" is Christ. Any time we fall short of Christ - we miss the mark. So scripturally, it is sin in a degree.

It might be better to actually say - Can a Christian avoid transgressing the law for an entire day, inwardly or outwardly?

 

[razzelflabben]

Somehow I don't think I want to get into a discussion that will just go round and round.

Which definition of sin? If we mean only that we don't hurt anyone intentionally, don't lie, don't steal, don't use foul language - then a person can go a very long time. When I was a child, and had the understanding of a child, and read that "all sinned" - I couldn't imagine my great-grandmother sinning. She was always in Church, always praying, lived a solitary life but in service and love. I never saw her sin in all the years she lived from the time I knew her.

But do we mean the absolute definition of sin? The barest hint of an un-Christlike attitude? The need to defend ourselves if we feel our rights have been stepped on or people think badly of us that has its root in pride? The failure to do every good thing we possibly know to do? The failure to love God at every moment with all of our heart, soul, strength, and mind? The least attitude of dissatisfaction and wishing for something we don't have? Or thousands of other common potential shortcomings that display that we are not yet exactly like Christ? I doubt very many people can go very many minutes without such sin.

I hope that answers your question.

as far as I know the only question anyone here has about what is meant by sin is that of whether it is sin to have a thought or is it sin when we don't take that thought captive and put that thought on the things of God.

Let me give you an example...I have a friend who is going through something tough. One Sun. at church she came to me in tears because of how badly she was hurt and she talked about how she knew she was focusing on the wrong things so we prayed that her focus would be on the things of God.

The following week I asked her how her focus was...she was indeed focusing on something good. The story isn't over yet though because I too am dealing with some very difficult things...but as I learn to remain always in the presence of God as Christ did and I strive to do that, my thoughts were not just on the things of God, that is the good gifts but on God Himself. My issues fell away and my thoughts were only for God and what He wills.

The point is this...having a thought (as another poster pointed out) is not sin, what we do with it is what makes it sin or righteous. How far we take that thought process speaks of maturity in Christ.

Apart from these subtle differences as far as I can tell everyone here is talking about the little things, but when scripture says to take our thoughts captive unto the Lord I have to side with scripture that the thought is not sin, it's what we do or don't do with the thought that makes it sin or not.

 

[razzelflabben]

I will say this - many people define sin as "transgression of the law" and so they assume they can easily avoid sin with the help of God. We can indeeed avoid transgressing the law.

But that is not the scriptural meaning of sin. Sin - hamartia - is "missing the mark" - like an archer aiming at the perfect center of the target. It doesn't matter if his arrow missed the target entirely (transgression of the law) or hits even within the inner circle - yet still not the perfect center - if he was aiming for the perfect center.

Our "mark" is Christ. Any time we fall short of Christ - we miss the mark. So scripturally, it is sin in a degree.

It might be better to actually say - Can a Christian avoid transgressing the law for an entire day, inwardly or outwardly?

It seems to me that if we want to learn from one another on the topic of whether we can or cannot go a day or more without sin we need some discussion of what sin is...you bring up our perfect example of Christ...I agree, but consider this passage and tell me what you think it means in our approach of what constitutes a sin...Hebrews 5:8 the context includes verse 1-10 btw and seems to indicate that Christ, being fully man had to learn obedience to God...aka to be without sin just as we need to learn to be without sin...but being fully God He was able to succeed when we fail because we are not always focused on God Himself. What do you think?

 

[razzelflabben]

Now let's take this discussion a step further, using Christ as our example of what is and is not sin...In the garden, Christ prayed that the cup of suffering and death might pass from Him...according to some here, the thought that He wouldn't have to go to the cross would be sinful. Yet Christ's example was that He would yield to God's will which would be our example of righteousness wouldn't it? so, did He sin when the thought of disobedience that of not going to the cross came into His thoughts?

 

[OSAS 101]

I have defined it in it's most simple terms and is a term used on the forum rules...it means to insight another to anger....it includes but is not limited to personal attacks on one's character and to the reinventing of what another poster says without accepting any corrections of misunderstanding that might have occured...it's really not that hard of a concept.

Here's one for ya.
What does razzelflabben mean?

 

[razzelflabben]

As I sit here and think about this discussion and pray about all that has been said that was a legit comment on this topic it seems to me that some here are under the impression that being a human being is a sin....but how can that be a sin if God came to earth and put on the flesh of a man but was still without sin....sin must be something other than being human...and we all know it is more than just the big sins, so what then is it? That appears to be the question that must be answered in order for us to find a place of understanding from a scriptural understanding of the topic at hand.

 

[razzelflabben]

Here's one for ya.
What does razzelflabben mean?

as I said, the mods and I had a long discussion about the matter some time ago and they agreed with me and included in the rules that to twist someones words into something they did not say and did not believe and to continue to do so in such a way that it paints an unfair and wrong picture of the posters character is flaming...that is not hard to understand and I know that my words are able to be comprehended if anyone is trying so let's end it there, okay, you have been told what flaming is by two different people, there are forum rules if you have further questions....I have clarified many times over what the mods and I both agree is flaming. there is nothing more that can be said about it or clarified and if you continue to try to make an issue that would be trying to insight me to anger which would be anger which would be flaming according to forum rules.

 

[~Anastasia~]

You are very correct that to have a temptation enter our thoughts is not sin. Jesus Himself was presented with temptation, so that is answer enough if anyone disagrees.

What we do with the thought from there dictates when it becomes sin. To recognize it and judge it as sin and reject it - is not sin. Though even so, the depravity of even just temptation can move us slightly out of the peace of God, and we might wish to avoid even that if we are extremely sensitive.

Beyond that are degrees of interaction with the temptation. If we reach the point of interacting with the thought, cozying up to it, welcoming it into our spirit, even relishing the idea of it (a very common temptation here is revenge or retaliation or "telling someone off" for something they've done that offended us) - even if we don't actually speak the words or change our minds before we act on it, we have committed sin by that point.

There's a very good podcast on that here if you or anyone is interested, and I'm sure it explains better than I am managing to do. The Six Stages of Temptation - Acquiring the Mind of the Church | Ancient Faith Ministries

It is indeed good to do as you said - take those thoughts captive to Christ. We strive to have the mind of Christ, to think on those things that are good, pure, lovely, and true.

Being practiced in this discipline is a front line defense against the fiery darts of the enemy, who takes delight in attacking us through our thoughts if we are not aware of his tactics.

as far as I know the only question anyone here has about what is meant by sin is that of whether it is sin to have a thought or is it sin when we don't take that thought captive and put that thought on the things of God.

Let me give you an example...I have a friend who is going through something tough. One Sun. at church she came to me in tears because of how badly she was hurt and she talked about how she knew she was focusing on the wrong things so we prayed that her focus would be on the things of God.

The following week I asked her how her focus was...she was indeed focusing on something good. The story isn't over yet though because I too am dealing with some very difficult things...but as I learn to remain always in the presence of God as Christ did and I strive to do that, my thoughts were not just on the things of God, that is the good gifts but on God Himself. My issues fell away and my thoughts were only for God and what He wills.

The point is this...having a thought (as another poster pointed out) is not sin, what we do with it is what makes it sin or righteous. How far we take that thought process speaks of maturity in Christ.

Apart from these subtle differences as far as I can tell everyone here is talking about the little things, but when scripture says to take our thoughts captive unto the Lord I have to side with scripture that the thought is not sin, it's what we do or don't do with the thought that makes it sin or not.

 

[~Anastasia~]

It seems to me that if we want to learn from one another on the topic of whether we can or cannot go a day or more without sin we need some discussion of what sin is...you bring up our perfect example of Christ...I agree, but consider this passage and tell me what you think it means in our approach of what constitutes a sin...Hebrews 5:8 the context includes verse 1-10 btw and seems to indicate that Christ, being fully man had to learn obedience to God...aka to be without sin just as we need to learn to be without sin...but being fully God He was able to succeed when we fail because we are not always focused on God Himself. What do you think?

Regarding Hebrews 5:10 ... Christ (being God) had perfect knowledge, and being of one will with the Father, had always been "obedient" in a sense - they simply agreed. What He "learned" by being incarnate in human flesh was suffering.

8 Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through suffering.

Being made fully Man (as well as already being fully God) in the Incarnation, Christ now naturally experienced hunger, thirst, suffering, and did not desire to suffer. But He also demonstrated for us how we can follow Him by submitting our will fully to the Father (which His Divine will would already have agreed with) - that He should die and then rise from the dead in order to secure our victory.

And I agree that we are not really able to focus fully on God all the time. There are those who actively try, and benefit greatly. How well they manage to do so can only be known by God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Now let's take this discussion a step further, using Christ as our example of what is and is not sin...In the garden, Christ prayed that the cup of suffering and death might pass from Him...according to some here, the thought that He wouldn't have to go to the cross would be sinful. Yet Christ's example was that He would yield to God's will which would be our example of righteousness wouldn't it? so, did He sin when the thought of disobedience that of not going to the cross came into His thoughts?

He did not sin by experiencing the natural human desire not to suffer. I would not say He thought of disobedience. If He HAD actually contemplated disobeying then yes, that would have been sin. But He simply had a desire not to suffer. To have that desire, to even ask - is not sin.

If He had spent time thinking how He might run away, or call angels to help, or simply refuse - if He actually considered for a while not being sure if He would do such a thing, as we contemplate disobedience - then it would have been sin, yes. (Which I think is impossible firstly because it is against God's nature to sin, and also because I believe He already knew what would happen - being God - He had after all already foretold it).

But I don't believe He ever seriously contemplated disobedience. Of course He did not sin.

 

[~Anastasia~]

As I sit here and think about this discussion and pray about all that has been said that was a legit comment on this topic it seems to me that some here are under the impression that being a human being is a sin....but how can that be a sin if God came to earth and put on the flesh of a man but was still without sin....sin must be something other than being human...and we all know it is more than just the big sins, so what then is it? That appears to be the question that must be answered in order for us to find a place of understanding from a scriptural understanding of the topic at hand.

Being human in the state God created man - which state Jesus was in - is not sin.

However, humans have been born into a sinful world, with corrupted wills, that always bend to the will of the self at least at times and until it is changed.

It's not a sin to be human. But all humans sin - Jesus alone was without sin.

If your question concerns anything I seem to think - I thank you that you have brought it up and asked. Rather than assume I meant something else.

 

[OSAS 101]

as I said, the mods and I had a long discussion about the matter some time ago and they agreed with me and included in the rules that to twist someones words into something they did not say and did not believe and to continue to do so in such a way that it paints an unfair and wrong picture of the posters character is flaming...that is not hard to understand and I know that my words are able to be comprehended if anyone is trying so let's end it there, okay, you have been told what flaming is by two different people, there are forum rules if you have further questions....I have clarified many times over what the mods and I both agree is flaming. there is nothing more that can be said about it or clarified and if you continue to try to make an issue that would be trying to insight me to anger which would be anger which would be flaming according to forum rules.

Imagine, a Christian being ashamed of his name.
I don't understand it.
It's easy enough these days to change names.

 

[razzelflabben]

You are very correct that to have a temptation enter our thoughts is not sin. Jesus Himself was presented with temptation, so that is answer enough if anyone disagrees.

What we do with the thought from there dictates when it becomes sin. To recognize it and judge it as sin and reject it - is not sin. Though even so, the depravity of even just temptation can move us slightly out of the peace of God, and we might wish to avoid even that if we are extremely sensitive.

let's pause here for a brief moment so that we can effectively communicate. You talk about the depravity of even just temptation can move us slightly out of the peace of God....I can go along with that, yet Christ demonstrated how we should be living in the power of the HS and what did He do when tempted? He drew closer to God didn't He? If He is our example, then we should by the power of the HS draw closer to God throughout temptation...The question on the table is, is it possible to face temptation and not sin for one or more days...Christ did it after 40 days of fasting...and He did it in the power of the Living God, the same Living God that dwells within us. So how then, if Christ is our example, can we say it is impossible...especially if we understand that He was both fully man and fully God....we can say that we don't, but we cannot say that we can't.

Beyond that are degrees of interaction with the temptation. If we reach the point of interacting with the thought, cozying up to it, welcoming it into our spirit, even relishing the idea of it (a very common temptation here is revenge or retaliation or "telling someone off" for something they've done that offended us) - even if we don't actually speak the words or change our minds before we act on it, we have committed sin by that point.

I would say that any interaction with temptation beyond taking the thought captive and putting the thoughts on the things of God is sin...but I could be convinced I am wrong especially since our thoughts are "lightening" fast it would be hard to say, this millisecond is not sin but that millisecond isn't which I am content with allowing God to define....

There's a very good podcast on that here if you or anyone is interested, and I'm sure it explains better than I am managing to do. The Six Stages of Temptation - Acquiring the Mind of the Church | Ancient Faith Ministries

I am listening to the end of this, before I say more...thank you for submitting it. My husband listened to part of it and said that he could see some people's heads exploding...lol

Here is what I will say...some 12 ish years ago, God called me to full time study of Biblical Love...full time as in 40 + hours a week. In the midst of that study I did two important studies to the question on the table, one was the schemes of Satan. Its a very interesting study that goes into a lot of details not only about how Satan tries to draw us away from God but also what scripture says we should do to avoid being drug away. Whereas the speaker is not wrong on most of what he says (some I question not because it's wrong but because I personally want all my answers to be from scripture which things LIKE making the sign of the cross is not from scripture) is spot on but he is also missing a lot of things that scripture tells us to do to tap into the power to be without sin. I am not accusing or blaming him in any way, this video is not really dealing with the same thing...what I am saying is I would love to talk to him more and show him the study God led me to.

Second thing I studied that applies to the question at hand is one I am finishing now, it's about the power of God's Love to transform us....iow's how does Gods Love transform us. It is amazing how much power is found in the Living God. Power that He gives us starting the very moment that we believe unto salvation. Way too many people- way too often underestimate the power of God in our lives and we should be ashamed everytime we place God in the boxes we have created for Him as some here have done.

It is indeed good to do as you said - take those thoughts captive to Christ. We strive to have the mind of Christ, to think on those things that are good, pure, lovely, and true.

Being practiced in this discipline is a front line defense against the fiery darts of the enemy, who takes delight in attacking us through our thoughts if we are not aware of his tactics.

It's one, there are many more....some really interesting ones come from the temptations of Christ and involve study of the word of God, memorizing the word, using the word, trusting the word, meditating on the word of God and praying.

 

[razzelflabben]

Being human in the state God created man - which state Jesus was in - is not sin.

However, humans have been born into a sinful world, with corrupted wills, that always bend to the will of the self at least at times and until it is changed.

It's not a sin to be human. But all humans sin - Jesus alone was without sin.

If your question concerns anything I seem to think - I thank you that you have brought it up and asked. Rather than assume I meant something else.

I have not heard anyone here on this thread legitimately claim that man is not a creature of sin, have you? I've heard people try to inflate what was said into something similar but so far everyone I can remember posting said that all men sin (except Christ) did I miss a poster that you can remember?