Eternal Security - Is the Gospel

[MDC]

I'M not the one saying that we don't have to follow God's commands...

I believe those who think this are in danger.

So you believe you’re saved and won’t parish because you follow God’s commands?

 

[BNR32FAN]

One more thing. That's all great! This is the mindset and should be for any growing Christian.

But what you are referring to is the desire to be sanctified and cleansed of evil. Every Christian SHOULD repent from sin, SHOULD do good works, SHOULD help others. However, none of these things bring salvation.

Only faith in the Lord Jesus brings salvation. This is biblical.

You say that you are incapable and unworthy of salvation. Very true! I am just as incapable and helpless. This is the core of Christian doctrine regarding justification: we do not deserve it in the least. So why in the world do you claim that we must do works to maintain something that we do not deserve in the first place?

When the Bible says, The just shall live by faith, why do you argue faith+works? Why are we to ever try and keep our salvation of our own power through our own filthy rags? We can't, so why must we do works to be justified? We can't. Therefore, we must simply believe in the Lord Jesus Christ with a child-like faith.

I hope equally as much that the Holy Spirit brings recognition to you.

Because there are two types of faith. There’s a genuine true faith that produces works and repentance of sin. The type of faith that changes a person’s life and urges a person to be obedient to God and compassionate to others. The type of faith that urges a person to give generously to people in need. The kind of faith that urges a person to be honest and tell the grocery clerk hey you gave me too much change back. The type of faith that makes a person get up and go to work even though he’s dead tired because he didn’t get enough sleep because he doesn’t want to lie to his boss and say he’s sick even though he could get away with it and nobody would know. Then there’s a dead and useless faith that doesn’t produce anything. It is the type of faith people have who go to church on Sunday with a hangover from Saturday night. The type of faith that causes a person to say to a homeless man begging for money GET A JOB!! The type of faith that causes a person to keep their mouth shut if they are handed back too much change at the grocery store. The type of faith that makes a person think it’s ok to call in sick to work because he doesn’t want to wake up. It’s only a small lie and nobody will ever know. A person with a true faith knows God is always watching and wants to live his life to please Him. A person with a dead faith only cares if a person is watching and says I’ll do it anyway and nobody will know, God will forgive me. Jesus warns us about these type of things.

All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children. “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:7-8


Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me. But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea. “What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting. So if your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one hand or one foot than to be thrown into eternal fire with both of your hands and feet. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It’s better to enter eternal life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Matthew 18:3-10

Of course everyone will sin and we will all fall short of righteousness. But there is a difference between being a slave to sin and stumbling in sin. A person who is a slave to sin repeatedly knowingly and willfully indulges in sin. A person who stumbles in sin is someone who makes a mistake but confesses and repents. A person who is a slave to sin is not repenting. You say that repentance is turning away from unbelief and turning to believe. That’s not what the early church fathers taught. Repentance is being born again. Turning away from sin and your old way of life and turning to God and a new way of life. There’s a difference between being born again and becoming a new creation and living the same sinful life you always have. A person who is born again is a completely different person. Their morality has skyrocketed because they follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They are no longer a slave to sin. This has nothing to do with the law or works. It is about walking in the spirit. Following your conscience. This is what I see in the scriptures and it is what the early church fathers taught. This concept coincides with all the scriptures including the ones that explain those who will not inherit the Kingdom of God because of their sinful nature.

When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19-21

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So you believe you’re saved and won’t parish because you follow God’s commands?

Why did you twist (again?) what he said from Scripture to something else he didn't say nor even imply ?

 

[MDC]

Why did you twist (again?) what he said from Scripture to something else he didn't say nor even imply ?

And what is being twisted? That works are the basis for your assurance?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And what is being twisted?

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I'M not the one saying that we don't have to follow God's commands...
I believe those who think this are in danger.

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So you believe you’re saved and won’t parish because you follow God’s commands?

==============================================
Where did they say they are saved in what you quoted ?
WHere did they say they won't perish (die)? (the way you spelled it refers to something completely different)

Look again for why they are saved and won't perish, instead of twisting things to imply or to try to support a false idea.

 

[MDC]

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Where did they say they are saved in what you quoted ?
WHere did they say they won't perish (die)? (the way you spelled it refers to something completely different)

Look again for why they are saved and won't perish, instead of twisting things to imply or to try to support a false idea.

I’m not twisting anything. The whole point is that she believes her works are the basis for her justification and she teaches such nonsense. She just refuses to acknowledge it. But you being a free willer take offense! The reason why the elect are secure is because of GRACE, and that conditioned in Christ alone. Christ is the only difference between the saved and unsaved. Christ is sufficient and provides all that is necessary for salvation. That’s why a believer can never parish. Faith is a gift from a new heart. Faith itself is the result of a new heart that perseveres by Gods gracious power. But since you reject the election of grace and Gods Sovereignty, you pretend to act as if you are in defense for her

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I’m not twisting anything. The whole point is that she believes her works are the basis for her justification

Quote her saying this anywhere. It looks like you are twisting in error even more.

 

[MDC]

Quote her saying this anywhere. It looks like you are twisting in error even more.

The very reason she teaches that a child of God in Christ can lose their salvation by NOT maintaining good works is apparent she believes a Judaizers gospel

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The very reason she teaches that a child of God in Christ can lose their salvation by NOT maintaining good works is apparent she believes a Judaizers gospel

No, now your twisting towards bearing false witness,
WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

So , again, or now, stop that , unless you can provide evidence of what it appears you are claiming falsely about what YOU SAY she teaches.

 

[MDC]

No, now your twisting towards bearing false witness,
WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

So , again, or now, stop that , unless you can provide evidence of what it appears you are claiming falsely about what YOU SAY she teaches.

Just because you are blind to the evidence doesn’t make your assertion correct. The evidence is there. But like I said before, since you idolize SELF (free will), the veil hasn’t been removed. There’s no grace nor Christ in the Judaizers gospel of works what logical Arminians ( pelagians) hold to

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just because you are blind to the evidence doesn’t make your assertion correct.

Now you are being rude and offensive without cause, and still have not provided ANY EVIDENCE of your now exposed to be false claims .

Still, one more time, QUOTE THE EVIDENCE IF YOU HAVE ANY. (you never did so far, even after requested)

 

[MDC]

Now you are being rude and offensive without cause, and still have not provided ANY EVIDENCE of your now exposed to be false claims .

Still, one more time, QUOTE THE EVIDENCE IF YOU HAVE ANY. (you never did so far, even after requested)

How about you reread the whole thread and see if the Lord would be so gracious to enlighten you to His wonderful grace in Christ.. and also reveal her works oriented gospel

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How about you reread the whole thread and see if the Lord would be so gracious to enlighten you to His wonderful grace in Christ.. and also reveal her works oriented gospel

I did not see in any of her posts what you are claiming,
AND
you did not either - as you did not provide ANY QUOTE of her saying what you claim


It really is that simply - you made false statements perhaps based on false assumptions and you are unable to verify or to back up your false statements.

This has happened frequently when someone / anyone?/ tries to defend a false position or a false doctrine.

Stop accusing anyone falsely, and instead go according to the content of the posts.

 

[Doug Melven]

I didn't say believers hate God.
How could anyone say such a thing?

You said believers can turn to evil and end up hating God.
Did they lose there salvation at some point before they started doing evil?
Did they lose there salvation at the thought of evil.

Which clause of the New Covenant are you speaking about?
I don't know of any such clause and I've taught the New Covenant. Please refresh my memory, it's been some time

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
This is quoted in Hebrews 8 and 10.

Recipients of eternal life WILL PERISH if they do NOT follow Jesus' commands. Again:

Then you cite these 4 verses.

John 14:15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Luke Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Luke 15:24 for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

How do any of these verses say that we will perish if we do not follow Jesus' commands?

If we grieve the Holy Spirit once, God will forgive us if we ask Him to. Everybody sins, as in 1 John 1 and 2.

If we continually grieve the Holy Spirit, then I'd have to ask if the Holy Spirit and sin can live in the same body. If we return to a life of sin, HOW can the Holy Spirit remain in us? Sin and the Holy Spirit cannot live in the same space which is why we're admonished throughout the N.T. to live godly lives.
The consequences are harsh leading to loss of salvation.

One single sin grieves the Holy Spirit.
If we had only committed one sin in our entire life and we did not accept Jesus Christ as our Savior we would go to hell.
God is holy.
God told Adam if he ate of the forbidden fruit he would die. He did not need to repeat that sin.
In Isaiah 6 the angels do not cry love, love, love.
No, they cry holy, holy, holy.
God hated sin so much,and He loved us so much He wanted a relationship with us so bad.
But the only way this could happen was for Him to give His only begotten Son.
So Jesus gave His life willingly for us.
God is holy. Without the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, God can't have anything to do with us.
The sacrifice of Jesus plus absolutely nothing will get us eternal life. We cannot add to it, for if we do we lessen the sacrifice Jesus made.
Yes, sin grieves God, but all of our sin has been put away.
All of our sin has been put on Jesus Christ. Isaiah 53:6
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.
If God were to judge us for our sin He would be an unjust God, because Jesus paid our sin debt.

 

[MDC]

I did not see in any of her posts what you are claiming,
AND
you did not either - as you did not provide ANY QUOTE of her saying what you claim


It really is that simply - you made false statements perhaps based on false assumptions and you are unable to verify or to back up your false statements.

This has happened frequently when someone / anyone?/ tries to defend a false position or a false doctrine.

Stop accusing anyone falsely, and instead go according to the content of the posts.

I’m sure the Judaizers felt the same way when Paul accused them of preaching and teaching a false gospel

 

[Afra]

If people could work to save themselves Jesus wouldn't have died on the cross.

This is unfounded speculation. You have no idea what our Lord would do in that situation. Perhaps he would have still died on the cross for us, so great is his love for us.

"Scriptural passages (Ephesians 2:8-9, Isaiah 64:6) indicate that our attempts at good deeds will never earn us a place in heaven. We cannot make up for our past, present, or future sins by doing good works. A saved believer will, as a natural product of their faith, shun sin and practice good works (James 2:18). If “once saved, always saved” is not true, then by necessity we are saved both by our faith and our works. If we can do sinful things, or not do good things (James 4:17) and lose our security, then our good deeds are a part of our salvation. This concept is contradictory to Scripture. It also creates an unlivable scenario where we have to try to do enough good to outweigh our sinful natures. The doctrine of “eternal security” goes hand in hand with the doctrine of “saved by faith alone.” To deny eternal security is to endorse a “faith plus works” salvation system. "

No, that is completely false. There are plenty of Protestants who reject "once saved, always saved" and hold salvation by faith alone. Nor does it logically follow that one who holds Sola Fide must hold OSAS. For example, one can hold that it is possible to renounce once's faith and lose salvation. That has nothing to do with works whatsoever.

 

[MDC]

I did not see in any of her posts what you are claiming,
AND
you did not either - as you did not provide ANY QUOTE of her saying what you claim


It really is that simply - you made false statements perhaps based on false assumptions and you are unable to verify or to back up your false statements.

This has happened frequently when someone / anyone?/ tries to defend a false position or a false doctrine.

Stop accusing anyone falsely, and instead go according to the content of the posts.

Do you believe Christ is sufficient and provides all that’s necessary for salvation? If you do then you cannot possibly believe you can lose eternal life in Him

 

[Afra]

Do you believe Christ is sufficient and provides all that’s necessary for salvation? If you do then you cannot possibly believe you can lose eternal life in Him

Must a person trust our in our Lord Jesus in order to be saved?

 

[MDC]

Must a person trust our in our Lord Jesus in order to be saved?

Salvation is in no other of course!

 

[BNR32FAN]

One more thing. That's all great! This is the mindset and should be for any growing Christian.

But what you are referring to is the desire to be sanctified and cleansed of evil. Every Christian SHOULD repent from sin, SHOULD do good works, SHOULD help others. However, none of these things bring salvation.

Only faith in the Lord Jesus brings salvation. This is biblical.

You say that you are incapable and unworthy of salvation. Very true! I am just as incapable and helpless. This is the core of Christian doctrine regarding justification: we do not deserve it in the least. So why in the world do you claim that we must do works to maintain something that we do not deserve in the first place?

When the Bible says, The just shall live by faith, why do you argue faith+works? Why are we to ever try and keep our salvation of our own power through our own filthy rags? We can't, so why must we do works to be justified? We can't. Therefore, we must simply believe in the Lord Jesus Christ with a child-like faith.

I hope equally as much that the Holy Spirit brings recognition to you.

Brother Nicolaus I hope you didn’t think that my last post was referring to you. That was not my intention at all. I was merely stating examples of some people who believe in faith alone not implying that all of them live that way. After rereading my post I thought it could be misunderstood to be insinuating that everyone who believes in faith alone lives that way. That was not my intention brother. I know there are probably many people who believe in faith alone who are guided by the Spirit in their life. I just wanted to clarify that so I didn’t offend anyone. God bless.