OLD COVENANT SHADOWS POINTING TO THE NEW

[bugkiller]

Is this the "new" you are referring to?
Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Yes and is it not part of the title of this thread?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I hope so this is what the OP is about

So why will you not discuss the word "new?"

bugkiller

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So why will you not discuss the word "new?"

bugkiller

The title of the thread is OLD COVENANT SHADOWS POINTING TO THE NEW. Did you have any scriptures to share or something to add to the discussion?

 

[bugkiller]

The title of the thread is OLD COVENANT SHADOWS POINTING TO THE NEW. Did you have any scriptures to share or something to add to the discussion?

How many times do I need to ask for discussion on the word "new?"

bugkiller

 

[LoveGodsWord]

How many times do I need to ask for discussion on the word "new?"

bugkiller

I have already started in the OP did you wish to add anything?

 

[Doug Melven]

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18)

The word "ordinances" is not just referring to ceremonial law.
Ordinance is a decree or law
Psalm119:91 has nothing to do with cermonial law.
119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
119:90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.
119:91 They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.

 

[bugkiller]

I have already started in the OP did you wish to add anything?

Perhaps I am a tad bit slow as I read your OP very carefully again and could not find where you discussed the word new. You need to quote your discussion of the word "new" as found in the OP so I can plainly see it.

To everyone and anyone else I would appreciate being showed any discussion of the word "new" in the OP. The OP does not seem interested in such a discussion. Why?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The word "ordinances" is not just referring to ceremonial law.
Ordinance is a decree or law
Psalm119:91 has nothing to do with cermonial law.
119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
119:90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.
119:91 They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.

He probably does not want to discuss ordinances either.

bugkiller

 

[LoveGodsWord]

He probably does not want to discuss ordinances either.

bugkiller

Why would I make a thread and not want to discuss it? Did you have anything to add to the discussion?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The word "ordinances" is not just referring to ceremonial law.
Ordinance is a decree or law
Psalm119:91 has nothing to do with cermonial law.
119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
119:90 Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.
119:91 They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.

It depends what the within chapter and scripture context is talking about. The OP is SHADOW laws of COL 2 linking the OLD to the NEW.

So the context from COL 2:14 with v11-13 in reference to circumcision of a new heart (Old pointing to the new) leading to v14 in reference to handwriting of ORDINANCES; (G1378) dogma δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah; From the base of G1380; a law; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical: - decree, ordinance, which continues the discussion on the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

This is already answered in the OP BTW.

COLOSIANS 2 [14], Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke.

You get the idea here.

 

[Doug Melven]

It depends what the within chapter and scripture context is talking about. The OP is SHADOW laws of COL 2 linking the OLD to the NEW.

So the context from COL 2:14 with v11-13 in reference to circumcision of a new heart (Old pointing to the new) leading to v14 in reference to handwriting of ORDINANCES; (G1378) dogma δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah; From the base of G1380; a law; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical: - decree, ordinance, which continues the discussion on the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

Your point in the OP was that "Ordinances" only refer to ordinances that you listed.
But I showed that ordinances means more than what you listed.
Are the 10 Commandments not decrees?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your point in the OP was that "Ordinances" only refer to ordinances that you listed.
But I showed that ordinances means more than what you listed.
Are the 10 Commandments not decrees?

That is not true.

Please show me in the OP where I have ever said that the english word ORDINANCE only refers to what is listed in the OP throughout the bible?

Your confusion was clarified in post 30 above yours. The meaning of the word depends on the context on how it is being used. As the OLD COVENANT includes both the God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the MOSAIC BOOK of the SHADOW laws the chapter and within scripture CONTEXT is important to understanding the meaning.

COL 2 CONTEXT is the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT from the civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws or decrees from the GREEK word dogma δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah referring to the SHADOW laws in ordinances for remission of sin which pointed to Christ and God's plan of slavation.

 

[bugkiller]

Why would I make a thread and not want to discuss it? Did you have anything to add to the discussion?

We asked for your discussion on some specifics concerning the topic. We get a by and refusal. why? You just want us to say something to argue about. Do as we have asked and you will get.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

It depends what the within chapter and scripture context is talking about. The OP is SHADOW laws of COL 2 linking the OLD to the NEW.

So the context from COL 2:14 with v11-13 in reference to circumcision of a new heart (Old pointing to the new) leading to v14 in reference to handwriting of ORDINANCES; (G1378) dogma δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah; From the base of G1380; a law; civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical: - decree, ordinance, which continues the discussion on the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

You really posted that "ordinances" are "laws" with your definition. This is exactly what we've always said. Now how can that be false? Doesn't the verse also blotting them out? Remember these ordinances were written with the finger of God. I rest my case on your posting agreement to your chagrin.

This is already answered in the OP BTW.

COLOSIANS 2 [14], Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

But you still say we're obligated to these blotted out handwritten ordinances. The verse in question doesn't specify part of them.

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Why do you want to say the ordinances against us are ceremonial? Please explain how ceremony (celebration) is against us. You also need to show celebrating the sabbath to remember creation isn't ceremony.

EPHESIANS 2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

"Commandments" is defined as - ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition. Your verse calls them law. "Ordinances" is defined as - the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment.

EZEKIEL 46 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke.

You get the idea here.

No because you're denying an ordinance is the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Your point in the OP was that "Ordinances" only refer to ordinances that you listed.
But I showed that ordinances means more than what you listed.
Are the 10 Commandments not decrees?

What I'm wondering is how are the ten commandments not handwritten ordinances remembering they were written by the finger of God. I think a finger is part of the hand.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

That is not true.

Please show me in the OP where I have ever said that the english word ORDINANCE only refers to what is listed in the OP throughout the bible?

Your confusion was clarified in post 30 above yours. The meaning of the word depends on the context on how it is being used. As the OLD COVENANT includes both the God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the MOSAIC BOOK of the SHADOW laws the chapter and within scripture CONTEXT is important to understanding the meaning.

COL 2 CONTEXT is the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT from the civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws or decrees from the GREEK word dogma δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah referring to the SHADOW laws in ordinances for remission of sin which pointed to Christ and God's plan of slavation.

The sabbath is a shadow law if you want to go that route. Mat 1128-30.

bugkiller

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The sabbath is a shadow law if you want to go that route. Mat 1128-30.

bugkiller

Sure take any route you want. Where does it say in God's WORD that God's 4th Commandment is a Shadow law?

There were Shadow sabbaths however attached to the annual jewish festivals of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. These could fall on any day of the week. These are not God's 4th Commandment of the ten commandments.

 

[Doug Melven]

Please show me in the OP where I have ever said that the english word ORDINANCE only refers to what is listed in the OP throughout the bible?

I think these should be sufficient to show what it is you were referring to.
And this is the same Hebrew word translated law. H2706
And then you go on to show verses that are only ceremonial based on the word ordinance. You even highlighted in Red all caps.

CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the OLD COVENANT that are REPLACED CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.
CONCLUSION; Two sets of LAWS made up the OLD COVENANT. These included 1. GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments) and 2. The MOSAIC BOOK of laws and ORDINACNES for remission of SIN.

COLOSIANS 2 [14], Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 is in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

What is being REPLACED in the NEW COVANANT is the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws and ORDINANCES

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I think these should be sufficient to show what it is you were referring to.
And this is the same Hebrew word translated law. H2706
And then you go on to show verses that are only ceremonial based on the word ordinance. You even highlighted in Red all caps.

Nothing you have posted supports anything you have said as was shown earlier it is the within chapter and scripture CONTEXT that determines the meaning of the scripture. You also ignore that the discussion point is in COL 2 and the GREEK reference to COL 2 CONTEXT is the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT from the civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws or decrees from the GREEK word dogma δόγμα; dogma dog'-mah referring to the SHADOW laws in ordinances for remission of sin which pointed to Christ and God's plan of slavation. You mix up your shadows with that which is ETERNAL.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

We asked for your discussion on some specifics concerning the topic. We get a by and refusal. why? You just want us to say something to argue about. Do as we have asked and you will get.

bugkiller

I have not refused anything your just making things up now. Do you have any scripture to share?