Gay Conversion Therapy

[PloverWing]

...with one side of the debate arguing it provides parents with a resource...

This aspect of the debate is especially disturbing to me. The sorta-libertarian in me is willing to consider making Conversion Therapy a legal option for fully-informed, fully-consenting adults. Cigarette smoking is a possible analogy: Smoking is harmful to the smoker, but it's something we allow adults to choose for themselves. We also (in the US) put health warnings on the cigarette boxes. So maybe an adult should be able to choose Conversion Therapy the way they might choose cigarette smoking, and the therapist could be required to give the client a brochure with certain warnings.

But teenage kids is another matter. Parents shouldn't be able to subject their kids to Conversion Therapy, because a minor isn't old enough or free enough to consent to that kind of thing.

 

[Zoii]

Still born male/female No scientific case of hermaphrodite.

No they are frequently born dysmorphic

 

[Snow_Princess]

Still born male/female No scientific case of hermaphrodite.

You can dig all you want to justify humans are born homosexual, they are not.

So my best friend's fiancee, who was born female and no one suspected anything until she was 14/15 years old and developing into woman and never got her period. It turns out, she never got, and still never has had a period because she has Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. Her internal genitalia are male, her external and all of her sex characteristics are female, and she has always identified as a female. This is due to the fact she was actually born an XY female. Is she male or female?

 

[Truth7t7]

So my best friend's fiancee, who was born female and no one suspected anything until she was 14/15 years old and developing into woman and never got her period. It turns out, she never got, and still never has had a period because she has Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. Her internal genitalia are male, her external and all of her sex characteristics are female, and she has always identified as a female. This is due to the fact she was actually born an XY female. Is she male or female?

Your best friends fiance was born a male, and the syndrome has different stages of the penis and ball development.

Born "Male" 1/20,000 cases

Androgen insensitivity syndrome

 

[Truth7t7]

This aspect of the debate is especially disturbing to me. The sorta-libertarian in me is willing to consider making Conversion Therapy a legal option for fully-informed, fully-consenting adults. Cigarette smoking is a possible analogy: Smoking is harmful to the smoker, but it's something we allow adults to choose for themselves. We also (in the US) put health warnings on the cigarette boxes. So maybe an adult should be able to choose Conversion Therapy the way they might choose cigarette smoking, and the therapist could be required to give the client a brochure with certain warnings.

But teenage kids is another matter. Parents shouldn't be able to subject their kids to Conversion Therapy, because a minor isn't old enough or free enough to consent to that kind of thing.

In the USA, minors under 18 are under the authority of their parents unless emancipated.

Medical care requires parental consent, excepting when killing the unborn through abortion.

 

[Truth7t7]

No they are frequently born dysmorphic

They are still born male/female

Wikipedia: Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), occasionally still called dysmorphophobia, is a mental disorder characterized by the obsessive idea that some aspect of one's own body part or appearance is severely flawed and warrants exceptional measures to hide or fix their dysmorphic part on their person.[1] In BDD's delusional variant, the flaw is imagined

 

[Zoii]

They are still born male/female

Wikipedia: Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), occasionally still called dysmorphophobia, is a mental disorder characterized by the obsessive idea that some aspect of one's own body part or appearance is severely flawed and warrants exceptional measures to hide or fix their dysmorphic part on their person.[1] In BDD's delusional variant, the flaw is imagined

No you have googled incorrectly - now try and google genetic gender dysmorphia and try again

 

[Truth7t7]

No you have googled incorrectly - now try and google genetic gender dysmorphia and try again

I gave you the study you ignored, here it is again.

If your not happy with the info provided, please provide a link to your claim of

"Genetic Gender Dysmorphia"?

Genetic: chromosomes

Dysmorphia: body development

The study below followed 35 from birth to adulthood with sex chromosome disorders and 32 out of the 35 married, as they led normal lives having children.

Please check table 2

Nature.com

Life adaptation in 35 adults with sex chromosome abnormalities

• Bruce G Bender
• , Mary G Linden
• & Robert J Harmon

• Genetics in Medicine volume3, pages187–191 (2001)
• doi:10.1097/00125817-200105000-00007

Received:
06 December 2000
Accepted:
31 January 2001
Published:
01 May 2001

 

[Zoii]

I gave you the study you ignored, here it is again.

If your not happy with the info provided, please provide a link to your claim of

"Genetic Gender Dysmorphia"?

Genetic: chromosomes

Dysmorphia: body development

The study below followed 35 from birth to adulthood with sex chromosome disorders and 32 out of the 35 married, as they led normal lives having children.

Please check table 2

Nature.com

Life adaptation in 35 adults with sex chromosome abnormalities

• Bruce G Bender
• , Mary G Linden
• & Robert J Harmon

• Genetics in Medicine volume3, pages187–191 (2001)
• doi:10.1097/00125817-200105000-00007

Received:
06 December 2000
Accepted:
31 January 2001
Published:
01 May 2001

The study makes the point that sex chromosome abnormalities with mosaic presentation (meaning they display male and female physical attributes) have higher IQs than non-mosaics. Um whats your point here and whats it got to do with the OP

 

[Mayzoo]

If the complicated and psychologically as well as physically harmful process of gender reassignment is not banned, why would it be such a priority of some to make sure that an at least physically harmless therapy, whether it is effective or not, must be banned? Seems to me that it is the political consideration and not the psychological and physical health consideration that is being prioritized here. If either is undertaken voluntarily, I see no legitimate reason for government interference in the process. If either is forced upon one through coercion, or if the patient is a minor incapable of full rationality on the subject, then the government would have a legitimate role. I do not see the outright banning of something that is only harmful to the person that voluntarily undergoes it as a legitimate use of government force. The principle that I would apply to one , I apply to the other. Can someone explain to me why I should not apply the same basic principle across the board when it comes to government action?

If only parents are complaining, then that means they are admitting minors.

 

[Truth7t7]

The study makes the point that sex chromosome abnormalities with mosaic presentation (meaning they display male and female physical attributes) have higher IQs than non-mosaics. Um whats your point here and whats it got to do with the OP

Nature.com

Life adaptation in 35 adults with sex chromosome abnormalities

You deviate from the truth of the study, excluding marriage and reproduction why?

35 adults were followed from birth to adulthood, 32 married and led normal lives, 31 had children.

The conversation you have presented is genetic differences, this is a response and explanatjon.

Once again If your not happy with the info provided, please provide a link to your claim of

"Genetic Gender Dysmorphia"?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Because only one is shown to be an effective treatment.

Where has that been shown?

 

[grasping the after wind]

What is the therapy modality that could get you to give up your heterosexual ways? I'm a better-than-average therapist and I don't quite know how I would go about it if you asked.

I believe it is called prison.

 

[USincognito]

The study makes the point that sex chromosome abnormalities with mosaic presentation (meaning they display male and female physical attributes) have higher IQs than non-mosaics. Um whats your point here and whats it got to do with the OP

Apparently to show how ineffective Google scholarship can be.

 

[SilverBear]

If the complicated and psychologically as well as physically harmful process of gender reassignment is not banned, why would it be such a priority of some to make sure that an at least physically harmless therapy, whether it is effective or not, must be banned? Seems to me that it is the political consideration and not the psychological and physical health consideration that is being prioritized here. If either is undertaken voluntarily, I see no legitimate reason for government interference in the process. If either is forced upon one through coercion, or if the patient is a minor incapable of full rationality on the subject, then the government would have a legitimate role. I do not see the outright banning of something that is only harmful to the person that voluntarily undergoes it as a legitimate use of government force. The principle that I would apply to one , I apply to the other. Can someone explain to me why I should not apply the same basic principle across the board when it comes to government action?

The government has a vested interest in the health and well being of all it's citizens. as such there are many laws protecting the individual from fraudulent medical procedures either in the application of them (voluntary or not) or the promoting of them. There is a reason why there are no more traveling snake oil sales men and there is a reason why lobotomies are no longer considered a treatment for homosexuality.

 

[SilverBear]

Still born male/female No scientific case of hermaphrodite.

You can dig all you want to justify humans are born homosexual, they are not.

all the evidence says otherwise

 

[SilverBear]

If only parents are complaining, then that means they are admitting minors.

for the last 30 or so years those engaged in conversion therapy have been targeting minors because they can be forced to attend session and don't have the social or academic knowledge or accessibility to confront the twisted things being done to them. It is a common standard for minors pushed into these therapies that parents remove all access to social media and to strictly limit who outside of the immoderate family the child has access to.

 

[Mayzoo]

for the last 30 or so years those engaged in conversion therapy have been targeting minors because they can be forced to attend session and don't have the social or academic knowledge or accessibility to confront the twisted things being done to them. It is a common standard for minors pushed into these therapies that parents remove all access to social media and to strictly limit who outside of the immoderate family the child has access to.

I do not know anyone in person or online that has engage in conversion therapy, but I have read some real horror stories that I cannot confirm or refute.

If what I have read is true, I could never, ever, EVER do to my child or my worst enemy the things I have read that have been done to minors during conversion therapy sessions.

 

[Truth7t7]

all the evidence says otherwise

Happy Birthday, how old are ya, 21 all over again, wrinkles gone, no grey hair?

Ok come back to reality now.

Happy Birthday!

 

[Truth7t7]

for the last 30 or so years those engaged in conversion therapy have been targeting minors because they can be forced to attend session and don't have the social or academic knowledge or accessibility to confront the twisted things being done to them. It is a common standard for minors pushed into these therapies that parents remove all access to social media and to strictly limit who outside of the immoderate family the child has access to.

You mean like forcing LGBT homosexuality on children in the Kindergarten classroom curriculum, without a parents consent, moving to instill and teach the problem of homosexuality in the child to begin with.