Should Women be Allowed to Pastor Churches?

[redblue22]

Phoebe

 

[Radagast]

Deborah

A civil ruler, but not a pastor.

Deborah has often been cited as the example that Biblically justifies female presidents, prime ministers, or queens regnant.

 

[Radagast]

Wrong question.

Women are pastors (ministers, clergy, priests, take your pick of title). We are so with the full support and agreement of our churches.

Indeed. The OP is asking whether they should be, and obviously, there is a range of opinions on that (and this thread is certainly not going to resolve the dispute).

If you don't want a woman pastor, don't worship under one.

Indeed. Very good advice. The choice is there.

 

[Radagast]

Phoebe

We had a thread on Phoebe. She was either a female deacon, a deaconess, or some kind of non-ordained female church worker (depending on how you interpret the Greek word).

 

[Radagast]

And I know it's a tradition to have a thread like this every so often (just like our regular-as-clockwork Christmas, Easter, Sola Scriptura, and KJV threads).

But really, what purpose does it serve?

 

[dzheremi]

Phoebe

As correctly stated above, Phoebe was a deaconess, as is clearly indicated in the Greek:

Συνίστημι δὲ ὑμῖν Φοίβην τὴν ἀδελφὴν ἡμῶν, οὖσαν διάκονον τῆς ἐκκλησίας τῆς ἐν Κενχρεαῖς

Deacons/Deaconesses are not priests, and there are deaconesses in the traditions of many churches which have never accepted the innovation of female priests/pastors, such as the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church, and the Russian Orthodox Church.

 

[Radagast]

As correctly stated above, Phoebe was a deaconess, as is clearly indicated in the Greek:

Συνίστημι δὲ ὑμῖν Φοίβην τὴν ἀδελφὴν ἡμῶν, οὖσαν διάκονον τῆς ἐκκλησίας τῆς ἐν Κενχρεαῖς

It's not clearly indicated in the Greek. The word just means "servant." It can be interpreted as a female deacon (in varying technical senses of "deacon"), a deaconess (in varying technical senses), or some kind of non-ordained female church worker.

Which of those you think she was depends on your view of first-century church offices.

Of course, it is clear that the words for elder, pastor, or overseer are not being used.

Edit: I should probably take my own advice here...

 

[dzheremi]

It's not clearly indicated in the Greek. The word just means "servant." It can be interpreted as a female deacon (in varying technical senses of "deacon"), a deaconess (in varying technical senses), or some kind of non-ordained female church worker.

Which of those you think she was depends on your view of first-century church offices.

Of course, it is clear that the words for elder, pastor, or overseer are not being used.

Edit: I should probably take my own advice here...

Hahaha. It is exactly as you've put it: no matter how you want to interpret diakonon here or anywhere, it's clearly not presbyteros, episkopos, etc.

 

[salt-n-light]

Biblically, no they shouldn't be. But they can be evangelists/apostles.

 

[R. Hartono]

My opinion is no, according to Scriptures.

Which scriptures ?

 

[Catholic4Jesus]

I'm going to say yes.

 

[archer75]

On a side note related to posts by the OP: if you insist on absolute "literalism," I'm pretty sure you won't be happy in the RCC, the OC, or any part of the Anglican Communion (though I know the AC has a lot of variety, so maybe I am wrong there).

Be careful with "literalism." You can easily paint yourself into a corner.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I'm not really comfortable with churches that have female pastors in them because I believe scripture says that women cannot be pastors and that they should be silent in the church. So when a church has a female pastor it shows that they don't really take scripture as seriously as I do and that church isn't really a fit for me.

 

[seventysevens]

There is Nothing wrong with a woman being a pastoral leader in modern times , it would certainly be better to hear woman that teaches correctly than a man who teaches falsely .
It all depends on if the pastor is teaching correctly and not about gender

The term " great in the Kingdom" can also apply to women - not just men

 

[archer75]

I'm not really comfortable with churches that have female pastors in them because I believe scripture says that women cannot be pastors and that they should be silent in the church. So when a church has a female pastor it shows that they don't really take scripture as seriously as I do and that church isn't really a fit for me.

Are there denominations that don't permit women to speak or sing at all during services?

 

[Neostarwcc]

Are there denominations that don't permit women to speak or sing at all during services?

Singing no speaking yes. There's nothing wrong with a woman singing during services. When Paul said that women should be silent in church he didn't mean that they can't sing along to the songs. He mostly meant that they shouldn't be pastors and that they shouldn't speak during service. But then again men shouldn't speak during service either it's kinda rude don't you think?

 

[Long Island Pilgrim]

I think the biggest problem we have in Christianity today is rebellion. Rebellion and idolatry are the root causes of of what 2 Thessalonians cites as the great "falling away" which many believe represents the current apostasy of Christendom. John 15: 18-27 indicates that there will be hatred of followers of Christ because followers of Christ are led by the spirit of God. Anyone in genuine submission to scripture and to the authority of the Holy Spirit within them will not need any other sources than the Holy Bible. They will know what God expects of them.

I am a female and I have no problem submitting to God or to men in authority. The only exception to my accepting male authority is when it is in direct opposition to scripture. So ultimately God's authority reigns supreme in my life. I have felt severe resentment and unprovoked attacks from females who are not in submission. This fact, in itself, that in itself represents some level of confirmation because we all know how people who are in submission to God are treated by the world . When I witness or experience any female twist, distort , hurl unprovoked accusations or attack another female simply because she affirms the word of God, I need no other information. I know what spirit is operational in that woman. The fruit of her behavior is evidence of what master she serves.
It's so interesting that God provides so much latitude for people to choose. He doesn't want submission for the wrong reasons so he ALWAYS leaves room for doubt (freewill) and then he watches and sees whose heart is genuinely aligned with his. Who will will tolerate being disrespected by fellow Christians in order to be obedient ? He watches . And there are unseen blessings for obedience and consequences for disobedience. So those people who think they have gotten away with something by being disobedient are deceived because there is a very real spiritual consequence for aligning oneself with falsity. And that consequence is that you compromise your ability to discern truth.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

No

I would stay clear of any church with a woman pastor. Nothing against her but, that would be a church not following the Bible.
M-Bob

 

[Neostarwcc]

I think the biggest problem we have in Christianity today is rebellion. Rebellion and idolatry are the root causes of of what 2 Thessalonians cites as the great "falling away" which many believe represents the current apostasy of Christendom. John 15: 18-27 indicates that there will be hatred of followers of Christ because followers of Christ are led by the spirit of God. Anyone in genuine submission to scripture and to the authority of the Holy Spirit within them will not need any other sources than the Holy Bible. They will know what God expects of them.

I am a female and I have no problem submitting to God or to men in authority. The only exception to my accepting male authority is when it is in direct opposition to scripture. So ultimately God's authority reigns supreme in my life. I have felt severe resentment and unprovoked attacks from females who are not in submission. This fact, in itself, that in itself represents some level of confirmation because we all know how people who are in submission to God are treated by the world . When I witness or experience any female twist, distort , hurl unprovoked accusations or attack another female simply because she affirms the word of God, I need no other information. I know what spirit is operational in that woman. The fruit of her behavior is evidence of what master she serves. And I watch how other females respond. Do they enjoy watching a sister in submission be attacked or do they congratulate the attacker ? It's all very educational and really strengthens discernment.

It's so interesting that God provides so much latitude for people to choose. He doesn't want submission for the wrong reasons so he ALWAYS leaves room for doubt (freewill) and then he watches and sees whose heart is genuinely aligned with his. Who will will tolerate being figuratively spit upon by fellow Christians in order to be obedient ? He watches . And there are unseen blessings for obedience and consequences for disobedience. So those people who think they have gotten away with something by being disobedient are deceived because there is a very real spiritual consequence for aligning oneself with falsity. And that consequence is that you compromise your ability to discern truth. So.....go ahead. do what is in your "heart" to do...God gives you freewill. Don't forget to cite "the Greek" or your seminary credentials in your argument and please , feel free to distort other highly reputable and long standing authors for their lack of perfection. Quickly cut and paste anything off topic that you can find by doing the briefest of Google searches that discredits authors who cite the importance of spiritual authority. And then tell me how you are a servant of God almighty.

My wife is the same way she doesn't have a problem with submitting to authority because women got cursed that way and we should all be submissive to God and his word. Submission to God and God's word should be a part of every true Christians life. I'm not saying that people who don't submit to God aren't saved (Although accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior is in itself a submission to God) but that isn't what God wants a Christian to be. God wants women to be subservient to men and himself and he wants men to be subservient to him. That's what God wants and that's what we do. It wasn't originally that way men and women were equals but then the fall happened.

 

[archer75]

Singing no speaking yes. There's nothing wrong with a woman singing during services. When Paul said that women should be silent in church he didn't mean that they can't sing along to the songs. He mostly meant that they shouldn't be pastors and that they shouldn't speak during service. But then again men shouldn't speak during service either it's kinda rude don't you think?

Can I ask how you determined this interpretation of the text?